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  1. #1
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    Dec 1969
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    frown Lee System of bullet sizing / lube

    My reading of forums indicates these Lee tumble lube bullets must be lubed once , then pressed into the Lee sizer and then lubed all over again with the Liquid Alox . Am I reading this right?

    Would not the lube be in the grooves by the first Alox treatment and upon sizing the bullets ... they are okay then for shooting?

    Or can you not just size them and then lube the sized bullets and use them.

    Can some one explain the system here? I use a Lyman 450 Lube/sizer and the process seem slower and using the Lee system in my Rock Chucker looks faster and more leverage as well. However if I am lubing twice, changing all my molds to tumble lube design: I am not sure I am gaining any time savings or benefits.

    Would anyone like to comment and share their experience?

  2. #2
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    You don't have to use tumble lube bullets to use a Lee sizer, any molds you already have are fine. You do have to lube before sizing , and it is recomended you relube hot pistol and rifle loads after sizing. Just remember if the bullet fits / comes out of the mold the right size , you don't have to resize the bullets. But since you are lubing a hundred or so at a time in a bowl.. it ain't that hard.

    http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data...uct/BS2003.pdf
    This post has been edited , vetted, and archived by the NSA.

  3. #3
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    Well, does that mean I can take my cast NON TUMBLE design bullets, Liquid Alox applied, size in the Lee Sizer set up and enough lube will in the grooves to allow
    shooting in my pistols?

    That might be faster and easier than the Lyman 450 system IF Alox Lube accrues enough in the regular cast bullet lube grooves. However , if I got to double lube these bullets : once before and once after sizing.... I see no leap in convenience or time in this system vs. the Lyman 450.

    I am all ears here: The 450 is slow.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    ky
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    You can lub a couple hundred bullets almost as fast as it takes to tell you about it with the lee setup. IF I size my bullets, I alway re-lub them---but, I normaly only size bullets that are way oversize or when seating a gas check. Lee lub is a great lub, have used it in both rifle and pistol loads for years with very good results. Lee lub works just fine with non tumble design bullets-----Lee was selling their lub years and years before they came out with the tumble lubs. The only downside to Lee lub is that it does gum up bullet seating dies and one needs to check the OAL often. The build up of lub inside the die causes the bullet to be seated deeper as it builds up. I just back out the seating adustment as needed and clean the die once in awhile with paint thinner.
    Last edited by 45to70; 12-13-2010 at 09:19 AM.

  5. #5
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    Alox , to work, has to be between the bullet and the barrel. Lube in grooves doesn't really do much.. Alox in grooves doesn't do anything at all. Thats why the designed the "tumble lube" bullet pattern.. many very shallow groves that would touch the lands as the rifling cut into the bullet. Sizing scrapes the alox off the contact areas with large groove bullets, tumble lube design should still have some usable lube in the many shallow groves. Ungrooved bullet , again the lube gets scraped off doesn't matter what kind of lube, doesn't matter what method of sizing. Some types of sizers lube as they size.
    Coating the whole bullet with alox letting it dry, sizing, and then relubing is the same for lee dies, or any brand of press using any brand of dies. Can't get away from it... you need lube to force the bullet thru the sizer to get good results, and you need lube on the bearing surfaces of the bullet for the lube to be able to do what lube does going down a barrel.

    Other types of waxy greasy sticky lube just gets everywhere, on the up side, by getting everywhere on everything some of it will, in all probability, get on the surfaces it was designed for , so nobody really mentions, much less stresses, the need to relube with oily greasey soapy lubes because it is going to relube the bullet and the reloading bench, and a couple tools whether you really wanted it to or not.

    okay maybe a little exagerated , but not by much
    This post has been edited , vetted, and archived by the NSA.

  6. #6
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    I have no leading issues with normal bullets lubed in the 450/ sized at same time and with LBT bullet lube in the grooves. I was hoping for a faster method as it is not real fast on the 450 and the leverage on the tool is hardly what you would gain on a press using the Lee system of sizing which must be easier and faster. However the double lube thing for bullets on Lee system seems to negate any time advantage.

    One thing though....a lubed sized bullet from the 450 has only lube in the grooves. None of the lube is on the bullet surface that has been resized so bare metal rides the bore and I suspect lube of one bullet fired coats the bore for the next bullet fired and that is why leading is not happening.

    In closing: if I am blind here, tell me. However, I am not seeing any advantage to me leaping to the Lee lube sizing system over my 450. I am not pinching pennies here and would willing leap to Lee if I could tell there is a FIRST DOWN to gain.

    Thoughts?

  7. #7
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    Using the lube sizer is easier and quicker after running bullets through a tumble lube sizer first.

  8. #8
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    Ditchtiger: Let me ask you this for solid understanding. I could have a faster operation with the 450 tool if I lubed all bullets with liquid Alox first and you think that is a good idea ? If that is what you mean, then will my normal bullet lube hold in the lube grooves or will it flake off since Alox is in those grooves in a thin flim?

  9. #9
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    For what it's worth, here's a Brits take on the thread. As the Lee die is not a lubrisizer, Lee say to lube prior to sizing, to prevent the die leading up. As we all know, this takes no time at all, just put a heap of heads in a round bowl, pour on some lube, agitate the bowl for a few seconds till the heads are covered in lube, tip out onto grease proof paper and leave to dry. Whether you run the heads through a die or load as is, depends on the individual and his requiremants for that particular load. What I have noticed is that liquid alox, although coating the whole bullet, does not always adhere well to the grooves of a conventional bullet with just one coating, so 2 coats would seem to be needed regardless. I also use the Lee 7.62x39 160gn micro-band bullet which retains more liquid alox in the grooves and 2 coates of alox covers well.
    What I like about the Lee system is that the whole bullet gets covered not just the grooves, I have never felt the need to use any other type as leading has never been a problem. As for speed of operation, I'm retired so what the hell if it takes a bit longer! I bought into the Lee ethos some years ago and see no need to change (if it a'int broke, don't fix it!) although I am sure that there are other ways out there with the end result just as good (but I bet not as cheap or idiot-proof!)
    ukrifleman

  10. #10
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    UKrifleman

    I take it that all the surplus Blanco from WWII does not work well as a bullet lube ? ... just joking !

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    UKrifleman

    I take it that all the surplus Blanco from WWII does not work well as a bullet lube ? ... just joking !
    Wouldn't know, none left, the country is so broke, they are using it to paint the white lines on the roads!!

  12. #12
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    You dont HAVE to lube before sizing with the lee push throughs unless your sizing down alot and you dont HAVE to use the Lee mule snot alox to lube them pre sizing a touch of dish soap works fine ,you dont need much!And The Lee alox is not designed to fill the lube groove except on their TL design bullets, Again alittle bit is all thats needed The bullet shouldnt be brown when your done just a light golden color. Size ,swirl, dry ,load ,shoot,Done! Its not a perfect lube and others work better for some applications ,but for most all pistol and light to mid range rifle loads it works well enough.


    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #13
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    Where the eyes are upon you
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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    My reading of forums indicates these Lee tumble lube bullets must be lubed once , then pressed into the Lee sizer and then lubed all over again with the Liquid Alox . Am I reading this right?

    Would not the lube be in the grooves by the first Alox treatment and upon sizing the bullets ... they are okay then for shooting?

    Or can you not just size them and then lube the sized bullets and use them.

    Can some one explain the system here? I use a Lyman 450 Lube/sizer and the process seem slower and using the Lee system in my Rock Chucker looks faster and more leverage as well. However if I am lubing twice, changing all my molds to tumble lube design: I am not sure I am gaining any time savings or benefits.

    Would anyone like to comment and share their experience?
    If it's fast you want, take a look at a Star lubrisizer in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCtLi8i7tMg

    I'm curious how long it takes you to lube bullets. I have two lubrisizers; and old Lyman 45 and a new production RCBS. They never really seemed slow to me. I've tumble lubed a little, but I despise the mess, I HATE the thought of having lube on the base of my bullets, and the baby-$hit colored gunk on the bullets looks....well....$hitty! But that's just my personal experience/preference.
    When sizing and lubing rifle bullets I do perform two operations: I first seat the gas check and lube the bullet in a lubrisizer with an over-sized die, then I size the bullet in one of the Lee push-thru dies.

    Regards,
    35W

  14. #14
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    Dec 1969
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    The Lee liquid alox goes on a lot easier for me if I tumble lube while the cast bullets are still very warm. Quicker, better coverage, and they "swirl" around the bucket I use with much less effort. I dry them on waxed paper overnight, then use the Lee sizing dies. No followup lube, and I've shot several thousand .38/357 and 9mm bullets without any leading. Those are target loads. Hotter loads, or rifle velocities, might be a different story, although I've had similar results at moderate velocities with .30 caliber rifle bullets cast with wheel weights.
    -.- ....- - -.. --

    9 out of the 10 voices in my head told me to stay home and clean my guns today

  15. #15
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    Dec 1969
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    LLA is a decent product, but everything has drawbacks. I use Lyman 450 lubrisizer, and also use LLA, depending on my needs. For low end loads, below 1000 FPS, you will find thinning LLA with mineral spirits at a 1/4 or 1/5 ratio helpful. Goes further, dries faster, and works just as well for me.

    No need to lube while the bullets are warm, just put the LLA bottle in the microwave at 50% power for 30-45 seconds or so.

    Double lubing might be needed to push bullets much beyond 1500 FPS.

    The sizers work better than the Liquid Alox. When you need an odd size (say, .424 for an Italian 10.4 Glisenti revolver, or .352 for a 1907 Winchester in 351WSL), it is very simple to lap out a smaller die to the desired diameter.

  16. #16
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    Guys, When I can't wait overnight for the ALOX to dry I use a heat gun on it. I don't normally use this method for "preloading" just for pre-sizing. It works good. If you don't have a heat gun a hair drier will work too, maybe better. You have to watch using the heat gun those things put out a LOT of heat and you don't want to melt or burn up anything. One nice thing about the heat gun though is you can preheat the bullets with it.
    Motor

  17. #17

    Default

    "Wouldn't know, none left, the country is so broke, they are using it to paint the white lines on the roads!! "

    Have your gubbermint call our gubbermint and get the phone number for the Chinese that are still propping us up for all our defficet spending. We send the Chinks tons of interest money each month but our unpaid balance continues to rapidly climb so it should work for yawl too.

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