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Thread: 1912 Mexican Mauser

  1. #1

    Default 1912 Mexican Mauser

    Hi everyone, I am new here to the forum and had a few question on a rifle I just acquired. A friend of the family has been in poor shape health wise and asked me to come by his house because he wanted to talk to me. When I got there he asked for me to go to the bed room and when I walked in he had all his firearms on the bed and said, "Take what you want" Among all the firearms was an old rifle and looked interesting, I have had my C&R for a few months but haven't bought anything with it yet. He didn't know much about the rifle except that his uncle brought it back from Mexico. Once I got the rifle home I took it all apart and cleaned off the cosmo that was still on it. Over all I didn't think it was in bad shape. So after looking around on the internet I couldn't find much info on it. From what I have found I guess Mexican Mauser's are rare because at the start of WWI the USA had made a shipment of Mauser's from Austria-Hungary turn around and bring the firearms back to Austria for the start of WWI, and the rifles that where shipped back to Austria had gotten the crest gridded off. The rifle that I have is all matching but has a few flaws and missing parts. The parts that are missing are the both barrel bands, front sight hood, cleaning rod, sling, bayonet and has a cracked stock. Also, at some point someone carved BP on the stock.The person I got the rifle from said he does have the parts somewhere just doesn't remember where he put them years ago.......I'm praying he can find me the bayonet at least. I would like to get this rifle put together with all matching parts. So here my questions for you guys, what type of barrel bands does it take, and where could I find them? Also, is this rifle as rare as I think it is and if you guys had to put a price on it what would it be worth? Here are a few pictures of it...if need be I will try to take more detail pics. The black spots on the stock and receiver are to cover up the S#. The stock is dried up what can I do to fix that; or should I just leave it the way it is and put her in the safe?

    EDIT- Not sure why I can't reply to the thread keeps telling me it's going to a MOD for approval...so I'll just make an edit here. Thanks for all the input so far. More Pics, and a little more info added. The stock is broken at the pistol grip and at some point had been repaired, also the S# is in the 6k range. The reason I ask what this rifle would be worth is because I feel bad getting a family heirloom for free from my friend and convinced him that I would pay him half of what it's value is. I do plan on keeping this, I'm 25 years old and hope to keep this beauty for as long as I can. The only other thing I would like to have in my collection would be a 1911 US issue pistol.

    As far as the cleaning rod goes is the correct one for this rifle the 15.5 inch or the 10 inch one? Also, the upper barrel band is it the one with the hook in the front of it?

    UPDATE- I will post pics ASAP, just got in from work and don't have time to take pics but I have taken another look at the stock.

    John the rifle does have the RM on the hand guard and the on the underside behind then triggger housing on the pistol grip. Also, has the metal disk on the right side on the rear of the stock, but I can not see any markings on it. The stock also has the mexican crest stamped into it, but it so bad that you can only read "Republica Mexicana". The cross bolt under the reciever is just loose, I can't figure out how to tighten it and don't want to mess it up. Above that cross bolt someone carved a cross into it to stock.

    I found a few more markings on it which I have no clue what they are or mean. On the left side of the front sight there is, what looks like grapes, 6 circles stacked on eachother forming a pyramid. On the bayonet lug there is a sun burst, sun burst on floor plate also has serial number and the letter "S". There also is a 4 sided star on the screws near the floor plate and trigger guard. Bolt has sun burst on it. Reciever, and bolt release have a mark that looks like a "5". Bolt handle also has the same "5" marking on it. There is a star of david on the rear sights, and on the bolt release. The nut and bolt under the reciever also has the 4 sided star on it.

    I can't thank all you guys enough for the insight you have given me about this rifle so far.

















    Last edited by t-town assassin; 01-27-2011 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Added more pics

  2. #2
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    All parts for Chilean or Colombian steyr 1912s will fit, but markings will differ. Brazil 1908 bands and rod will fit but again markings differ. The Mexican steyr 1912 has a small sort of sunburst on the upper band, One of my lower bands has a 4 pointed star? the other is not marked. JL

  3. #3
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    Note . Pancho villa used a lot of those to

    murder civilians . Just giving a little history .



    Fiveshot

  4. #4
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    It looks nice but dry and heavily sanded. Lucky to be matching and have sharp markings. You could wipe it down with lemon oil. Furniture polish. Not a finish, just feedin' dry old wood to keep it from cracking. Nice historical rifle, good luck with the bands. Where is the stock crack?

    LB

  5. #5

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    Hi guys thank you for all the info so far. The stock is broken at the pistol grip and at some point had been been repaired, I will try to post pics of it tomorrow as well as a pic of the floor plate of the rifle.

    Is the cleaning rod for this type of mauser a 15.5 inch or a 10 inch? Also, the lower barrel band is it the one with the hook on the bottom of it? I'd like to figure out what year this rifle was made, how and when this rifle got to Mexico.

    Reason I ask what the value of this rifle would be in it's current condition is because I feel bad for getting this rifle for free and convinced my friend to pay him half of what it's worth. Call me stupid but I can't accept a family heirloom of his for free.

  6. #6

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    Hi guys and thank you for the info so far. As far as the cleaning rod is it the 15.5 inch or the 10 inch that goes on this model? Also, is the lower barrel band the one with the hook on it?

    The stock is broken at the pistol grip but has been repaired at some point in it's life.

    Reason I ask what this rifle is worth is because I feel bad getting a family heirloom for free and convienced my friend to let me pay him half of what the rifle is worth.


  7. #7
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    [EDIT] Welcome to the forums!

    An uncommon rifle - I would try real hard to find the rest of the parts.

    If you plan on keeping it - take your time before doing any cleaning. If you plan on moving it - don't do anything (except find the missing parts).

    I've never seen a 1912 Mexican issue - but then, I don't get out much ....

    [EDIT] Neat rifle, good pics, thanx for sharing!

    .02
    Last edited by jebber; 01-27-2011 at 07:20 AM. Reason: where are my manners?
    pure jebberish

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  8. #8
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    Hi T-Town,
    The value of your rifle depends on whether it is in its original condition, how bad the stock sanding is, whether or not stock has its original cartouches. The barrel bands and cleaning rod can be easily found. The upper band should indeed have a sling hook. I have two Mexican M1912's and the lower band on both is unmarked. As JL pointed out, the right side of the upper band has a very, very small mark on its rifle side. However, the mark on my rifles is so small that it can be seen correctly only under magnification.

    Regarding the stock, how well this can be restored will strongly impact value. The mere fact that it is broken in two drops the value by many hundreds or dollars. Does your stock have a round metal dics in the right side? If so, is it marked with an alpha-numeric phrase? If so, can you post a close-up photo of the markings? The crest on the rifle's receiver should also be deeply stamped in the stock just below the disc. The letters "RM" (Republica Mexicana) should be found stamped in the top of the handguard and the lower portion of the small of the stock. Also, the recoil cross bolt and not under the reciever ring on your rifle appears to me loose or missing. Is there a problem here?

    Regarding the cleaning rod, it should be 15.5 inches long.

    If your rifle were in NRA VG condition and all original, it would be worth in excess of $1,000. At auction, a Mexican M1912 in NRA VG condition would likely go for much more than that. Your rifle however has big stock issues which will keep its price lower... although is its stll worth quite a bit. Unfortunately, I know of only two sales of Mexican M1912 rifles in the past 15 years, and I bought both. One was $125 and the other $650. Neither prices were indicative of what your rifle would sell for at auction. If your stock can be properly restored and has its original markings, it may well bring a price close to 4 figures. Many if's!

    Can you post close-ups of the stock break? How has it been repaired?
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 02-04-2011 at 02:50 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9

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    Excellent post John, I am glad I checked before I posted.

    T-Town, please check to see if your rifle is import marked. If so it should be marked on the barrel behind the muzzle, The Southern Armory of Galax, Virginia imported a large number of Mexican military arms in the early '90s and there were exactly 12 of the M1912 in that batch, all had the Austro-Hungarian rear sling swivel that yours seems to have, indicating that at least some of these went to Mexico after the wartime use by A-H forces.. Can we see a photo of that please? Century did some importing of Mexican arms after that as well. If import markings are present, they should not affect the value of your rifle at all, the Mexican M1912 is a very uncommon rifle and John's value estimates are accurate.

    Please keep your friend on task for finding the missing parts. Until he does, standard Gew98 bands can be used in a pinch, the Mexican M1912 is an updated copy of the German Gew98.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    Excellent post John, I am glad I checked before I posted.

    T-Town, please check to see if your rifle is import marked. If so it should be marked on the barrel behind the muzzle, The Southern Armory of Galax, Virginia imported a large number of Mexican military arms in the early '90s and there were exactly 12 of the M1912 in that batch, all had the Austro-Hungarian rear sling swivel that yours seems to have, indicating that at least some of these went to Mexico after the wartime use by A-H forces.. Can we see a photo of that please? Century did some importing of Mexican arms after that as well. If import markings are present, they should not affect the value of your rifle at all, the Mexican M1912 is a very uncommon rifle and John's value estimates are accurate.

    Please keep your friend on task for finding the missing parts. Until he does, standard Gew98 bands can be used in a pinch, the Mexican M1912 is an updated copy of the German Gew98.
    Hi TP,
    Excellent points about the recent import of these rifles. Also, if I'm not mistaken, JPS located a few Mexican M1912's at the sale of a Hollywood film studio's armory shop a few years back.

    Also good point about the lost parts, especially the bayonet, which in itself is a rare and expense collector's item. If it is in fact Mexican, it may have its serial number on its pommel or cross guard. Here is what mine looks like. Again, the marking "RM" stands for Republica Mexicana.
    Regards,
    John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN9118a crossguard Republica Mexicana.JPG   DSCN9120a crossguard with serial number.JPG   DSCN9124a pommel with RM.JPG   DSCN9127a full length right.JPG   DSCN9131a-full length left.JPG   DSCN9134a front of handle.JPG  


  11. #11

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    Yes, John (JPS) found at least 1 in the prop house/film studio sale, not sure if there were more of them or not, at any rate he got a nice one. I am hoping that he will find his way here for this discussion.

    As you probably remember, I had two of the M1912/M14 from TSA's stock. I hate to admit it but I had to sell them both a few years ago but I did manage to hold onto the one "Republica Mexicana" marked bayonet, it is nowhere near as nice as the one that you have but I am happy to have it. Like the rifles they are hard to find.

  12. #12
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    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...=Mexican+M1912

    Unfortunately, the photographs of this WW I Austro-Hungarian ex-Mexican M.1912 have been lost.
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 01-27-2011 at 05:20 PM.

  13. #13

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    I didn't notice any import marks on the barrel. John I also live in MA if you would ever want to take a look at her for yourself. I love history and since I picked up this rifle I have felt like a little kid in the candy store trying to find out as much as I can on it. Thanks for the link John I was hoping I could see the pictures.

  14. #14

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    Here is a thread on the JPS WW1 Forum entitled "Austro-Hungarian Shoulder Arms of WWI - PHOTOS & TEXT ":

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...HOTOS-amp-TEXT

    The Mexican M1912 is under "Commandeered & Reissued Captured Shoulder Arms" and is located about half way down the page, only one good photo but it should give you an idea of the appearance.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-town assassin View Post
    I didn't notice any import marks on the barrel. John I also live in MA if you would ever want to take a look at her for yourself. I love history and since I picked up this rifle I have felt like a little kid in the candy store trying to find out as much as I can on it. Thanks for the link John I was hoping I could see the pictures.
    Pictures? We've got plenty.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN8608a.JPG   DSCN8611a.JPG   DSCN8613a.JPG   DSCN8614a.JPG   DSCN8615a.JPG   DSCN8616a.JPG  

    DSCN8617a.JPG   DSCN8620a.JPG   DSCN8621a.JPG  

  16. #16
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    And a few more...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN8622a.JPG   DSCN8623a.JPG   DSCN8624a.JPG   DSCN8629a.JPG   DSCN8630a.JPG   DSCN8632a.JPG  

    DSCN8635a.JPG   DSCN8637a.JPG   KuK.jpg   M14side.jpg   IMG_0068b-1912.jpg  
    Last edited by John Wall; 01-28-2011 at 05:35 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Wow

    As an piece of history (even with all it's defects), it is quite a find. Not too many of these around, even in Mexico. The one or two I've seen in Mexican hands will most definitely be sporterized, or parts guns.

    Congratulations.

    Xela

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