Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default 1891 Argentine Cavalry Carbine - Pics

    I had the fortune of acquiring a matching and nearly complete Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 Cavalry Carbine recently, and thought I'd share some pics. It appears that the only thing missing is the scrubbed model name, but the rest of the gun's features speak for the pedigree.

    I needed to spend some time cleaning it up - Bluing is all but gone above the wood line, but fortunately there was no major rust, nor other damages besides moderate pitting. I got a pleasant surprise when I took the a damp rag to the crud on the stock. It's a tiger eye (and not a tiger!) - some angles it looks like straight wood, and other angles show the stripes. Bore looks good. I think I will purchase some ammo, and fire this one.

    Enjoy.


















    Thanks for looking.


    .

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Lousyiana, USA
    Posts
    4,599

    Default

    Nice clean one. Looks good. Very handy and fun to shoot. Not a lot of matching ones out there outside of collections. I got a DWM. The bolts on these are like fine art. Beautifully made. Make sure your Magazine is fully seated before ya' shoot it. I remember that they sound like a rifle in one of those "Spaghetti Westerns".

    LB

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    Thanks,

    When I cleaned it up, I learned about the mag release.... after some real head scratching. But it's locked firmly back into place. And the bolt stop was another load of fun. But that's reassembled and ready to go.

    I've searched quite a bit on this model, and have found quite a bit on standard 1891's, cut-downs, 1909's, and Engineer's models, but only a handful or so come up in this particular configuration. It'll be good company for the K.Mod.71 Carbine.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    734

    Default

    Good find I like the tiger stripped stock. Also it's nice to see the crest unmolested most of the ones I have seen including bayonets have the crest ground off.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    This one had the crest spared, but the "Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891" was not spared. Obviously, this one has no provision for a bayonet.

    I'm curious as to how the missing model name might effect value. In searching for recent comp sales, I've found a mismatched with intact name and crest for $495, another mismatch obviously re-blued and redone stock for $475, a cut down 1891 rifle with re-blue and redone stock for $295, and several Engineer's Carbines from around $200 to $450.

    But there are no recent sales or mention in several forum archives of a matching and non-refurbed specimen. Any guesses? My wife needs to know.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    734

    Default

    Their is a nice article in the current Shooting Times on your carbine.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orcutt View Post
    Their is a nice article in the current Shooting Times on your carbine.
    And dang, I don't get Shooting Times. I think this is the third or fourth instance now when I wished that I did subscribe.



    Any insight to share? Which issue?

    (and I'll get busy tracking down a copy)


    Edit to add: I found the article on the net. Thanks!
    Last edited by martin08; 03-13-2011 at 11:24 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Now you have got me thinking. I don't remember if my 91 carbine has the model removed or not? I know it still had the crest on it and was matching. Now I'll have to hunt it up and check on the Model marking. I haven't saw it in a while and am not sure where it's at.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,802

    Default

    Those little rifles are

    incredibly well made .



    Fiveshot.

  10. #10
    geladen's Avatar
    geladen is online now Platinum Bullet Member and Curmudgeon-in-Training
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    7,804

    Default

    I have never before seen an Argentine M1891 with "Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891" removed from the side rail. I wonder who did that and why? And why remove that and not the crest?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by geladen View Post
    I have never before seen an Argentine M1891 with "Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891" removed from the side rail. I wonder who did that and why? And why remove that and not the crest?
    Good question. No import marks either. This one has been in a collection since the mid 1960's. There is a card file that said it was initially bought for either $12 or $14.

  12. #12

    Default

    Gentlemen, the "Modelo Argentino 1891" markings were likely not remove, they were probably never there. This carbine is an arsenal rebuilt. Argentine arsenals had a number of both marked and unmarked receivers for repair purposes (both for the 91 and 09 models). The crest is a good indicator of a likely rebuilt as it does not resemble the typical 91 crests, but rather a 09 one and was probably stamped at the Argentine arsenal. This carbine should have a "AG" inspector's stamp (within a shield) somewhere on the barrel. This stamp stands for "Arsenal de Guerra" or War Arsenal, and would indicate an arsenal rebuilt. On that note, martin08, you have a very unique and rare piece that most people will simply not find.

  13. #13

    Default

    Very interesting. Thanks for that information cello1988.

  14. #14
    geladen's Avatar
    geladen is online now Platinum Bullet Member and Curmudgeon-in-Training
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    7,804

    Default

    I never cease to be amazed at the quality of information that pops up on Gunboards.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Argentine M1891 2.JPG   Argentine M1891 3.JPG   Argentine M1891 6.JPG   Argentine M1891 9.JPG  

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    Thanks for the information, cello1988.

    Part of what you conveyed makes sense. It would seem that the Modelo stamp would not have been there. Had it been scrubbed, then there should be some grinding marks, and the receiver should be out of round, and that evidence is not there.

    The next indicator "AG in a shield" is simply not there. I stripped the gun down again just to be sure, and there is not even a hint. I did find what I think is the barrel fitment mark to the receiver, as there is a disticnt "3" designation to both.

    My thoughts are that this is a fairly early production in the run, number "A 2444", or built in the first 2500 of this model. I have seen B's, C's, D's, etc. Could this have had the Loewe Berlin stamp and not the Argentino stamp because of this early run? And could someone provide pics of the two different crests?

    On a side note. The machining and finish inside is simply meticulous and finely done. I should take pics later, while it is still torn down, just to share.

    And yours has the bayo attachment, geladen. If I read correctly earlier, the Loewe Berlin was not originally fitted with bayo lugs. Is yours LB or a later DWM?

    Thank you for all the contributions thus far. This is great stuff.

  16. #16
    geladen's Avatar
    geladen is online now Platinum Bullet Member and Curmudgeon-in-Training
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    7,804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    And could someone provide pics of the two different crests?

    And yours has the bayo attachment, geladen. If I read correctly earlier, the Loewe Berlin was not originally fitted with bayo lugs. Is yours LB or a later DWM?
    Mine is DWM but some of both the Loewe and DWM cavalry carbines were modified by Argentina c.1925 to make "engineer carbines". That would have been after the cavalry got the M1909 carbines. Modifications included two barrel bands added for a bayonet mount and side sling swivel, also the removal of the saddle ring bar behind the trigger guard and the addition of a rear side sling swivel. The bayonet is a shortened Argentine Remington Rolling Block bayonet with a modified muzzle ring.

    The photo I posted of the crest on my carbine, while not very clear, should be good enough to show the difference from your M1909 style crest. Look at the sun at the top of the crest.

    Added: It seems that none of my three crests are exactly the same as yours.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Argentine M1891 3.JPG   Argentine M1909 3.JPG   Argentine DGAM M1909 3.JPG  
    Last edited by geladen; 03-14-2011 at 01:42 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    I see what you mean about the crests. And I had the chance to check mine against a 1909, shown here in bones92's thread -
    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...1909-Argentine

    Mine doesn't match any of them. Hmmmm... So, there are at least five different ones. Interesting.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    And the receiver pics that show the quality milling and finish. Something that is lost on newer guns, for sure.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laramie, WY area.
    Posts
    1,029

    Default

    I have owned carbine A6742 for almost 30 years. It does have the "MAUSER MODELO ARGENTINO 1891" line above the "MANUFACTURA LOEWE BERLIN". The Modelo line is in larger font and all letters are capitals. The crest is different than that shown in your pictures and also different than on my 1909's. My 1891 long rifle was decrested so no comparator there. I can take pictures of my carbine if it would help. Mine has the AG in shield marking on the underline of the stock-probably marked when the toe of the stock was repaired with a pin.
    Last edited by lcmunn; 03-15-2011 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Added last sentence.

  20. #20

    Default

    martin08, here are two good examples of an original barrel/receiver/crest carbine and a re-barreled carbine with a 09 type crest. The one with the 09 type crest has the AG shield I mentioned. This shield was not part of the Argentine Weapons Commission inspection stamps used when these were first received by the Argentine Commission, but an arsenal stamp used to indicate replacement parts. This shield is often found on bolts and barrels. Another indicator of a re-barreled carbine would be a different font used on the serial number. If all parts are original to the rifle/carbine, the font type and size should be the same on both the barrel and receiver. The only exception to this rule are the DGFM 1909 carbines manufactured in Argentina, which often display different type/size font on serials. What's most fascinating about your carbine is the "Modelo Argentino 1891" missing. I have seen "virgin" 91 receivers without any markings or without a crest, but never one like yours. I recommend you keep this one as it may turn out to be a rare example.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pix507801921.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	56.6 KB 
ID:	411019Click image for larger version. 

Name:	528.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	29.3 KB 
ID:	411020

  21. #21

    Default

    martin08, here is the side view of the same re-barreled carbine shown above... you can see all expected markings are present.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	527.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	38.2 KB 
ID:	411021

  22. #22

    Default

    One of my pride and joys! 1891 Argentine presentation carbine presented by General Pablo Riccheri, President of the Argentine Weapons Commission, to a relative of his. I also have its original presentation case and tools that come with it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1011443.JPG 
Views:	21 
Size:	60.3 KB 
ID:	411022Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1011442.JPG 
Views:	24 
Size:	63.4 KB 
ID:	411023Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1011441.JPG 
Views:	27 
Size:	57.2 KB 
ID:	411024Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1011444.JPG 
Views:	24 
Size:	62.6 KB 
ID:	411025

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    7,062

    Default

    My word! I would be proud, too! That is gorgeous.

    And yes, lcmunn, a pic of the crest and other features would be quite appropriate for this thread.

    Here are the pics of the three serials from approximately the same distance. The font looks just a bit different to me, even though some of the stampings might have had heavier blows and/or different angles when struck.








    And a better pic of the crest. The sun rays look somewhat similar to the 1909. But the eyes are entirely different. the grip on the hands are also not something that I can match up with other crest pics.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •