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  1. #1
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    Default Help me understand export model VZ24 bayonets.....

    I知 hoping someone can help me understand export model VZ24 bayonets. Specifically those bayonets marked on the blade with only CSZ followed by a capital letter under that, no other markings will be found on the bayonet. The frog stud on the scabbards is marked simply CSZ. You値l find the CSZ can be on either side of the blade. My understanding is the two makers of these bayonets used different sides of the blade to mark their logo, correct?

    When were these bayonets made? To what markets were they exported? Does each letter block indicate a series of 10,000? I could go on but that値l do for now.

    Thank you for your time, Jon

  2. #2
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    It woudl be nice to fully understand these, I knwo some letters went to some countires, but believe it was not in alphbetical order. Ive heard the two maker claim but also remember a reply that said there was only 1 i believe. This thread i will definitly follow

  3. #3
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    The bayonets marked CSZ were made in 1923-39 period and for short period in 1945-46. In other dates were used other marking, the letter under CSZ should be a series lettes each for 10000 pcs, the production for export were used from normal production by same design Vz.24 so the letter could be one by small contract or many by large contract, it should be same as for czechoslovak army only the acceptance is missing. by special contract with different design could be other marking used. There were 2 producers.Export were realised to whole world, but Europe, China, east Asia and South Amerika are the well known areas of export.

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    For practical purposes the letter after the CSZ means nothing. There seems to be no way to match up the letters with any particular contract. A VZ24 export bayonet, like Andy says, is the same as the CS Army bayonet except it lacks CS Army acceptance markings (E [lion] 36, etc.). Romanian VZ24 bayonets are acceptance marked CM in a variety of styles with a Romanian serial number (AR, BR, CR, etc. prefix) on the end of the pommel and the side edge of the frog stud. Some Romanian bayonets also have CS Army or Slovakian markings but most were unmarked except for CM and serial numbers (and the usual CSZ A, B, C, etc.). A "swan" stamp on the wood grip is a Romanian Rebuilt bayonet.

    Some export bayonets (mostly earlier?) had the blade edge down. The Uruguayan bayonets were blade edge down and marked 937 for M1937.

    Brno made bayonets have the left ricasso marked and Bystrica bayonets have the right side marked. Circle Z is Brno and double circle Z is Bystrica. The smaller 2mm circle Z was generally used up until about 1926 and the larger 3mm circle Z was generally used up until about 1933. It is unclear as to whether or not the size of the circle Z can be depended on for dating.

    I have a Brno made export bayonet with a V marking that I can not identify. The marking is between the grips on the bottom and on the frog stud. The frog stud has CSZ and the ricasso CSZ K, there are no circle Z markings. Serial number on end of pommel 0755.

    There is a chart of ZB contracts on pages 123-126 of the book Mauser Military Rifles of the World, Fourth Edition.
    Last edited by geladen; 05-30-2011 at 09:02 PM. Reason: corrected circle Z information

  5. #5
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    Geladen is right only for not repeat same not correct information, the Bystrica is second plant of Zbrojovka Brno in Povazska Bystrica, as in Slovakia exist about 20 Bystricas, so the correct location must be declared.The first name Povazska is very important.

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    In Slovakia are about 20 towns named Bystrica but only one Bystrica had a ZB plant. That was Povazska Bystrica. It makes a difference if you want to mail a letter there or to drive there. That is like there is more than one Orberndorf in Germany but only one Orberndorf am Neckar. Only one Orberndorf had a Mauser plant.

    BTW, most of what I know about ZB bayonets I learned from Andy.

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    glad to finally find out wha the swan stamp wsa now i must remember to add it to my VZ page

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    Carl,
    That's not 100% sure. It's just that we got flooded with Romanian bayonets and a lot of them were rebuilt. Your swan and my swan "look like" the other rebuilt Romanian bayonets.
    Bill

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    The Oberndorf a/N is always marked with it so the correct name of the city was stamped on rifles,the name Bystrica is not used in Slovakia as single, is always with addition that correct the location and the city so is Banska, Zahorska, Povazska, Stara , Nova and many more.You use same name NY for New York or You use only a York for this city without the New?

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    Andy,

    I think what we have here is a cultural difference. American collectors are only interested in telling the difference between ZB plant #1 and ZB plant #2, that is, between ZB Brno and ZB Bystrica. You and I know the full name is Povazska Bystrica but you will never get most American collectors to write that.

    It is similar to American collectors writing Czech when they mean Czechoslovakia or Czechoslovakian. Most American collectors will not change that. Personally, I try to write CS instead of Czech if it is in a post that I think you may see, but I still write Czech in email or PM to other collectors because that is what they expect and that is what they understand.

    It is also somewhat similar to writing G98M. The designation G98M is not a German designation and period Germans would not understand it but (American) collectors know what a G98M rifle is. That is just a collector label.

    So when collectors write Bystrica instead of Povazska Bystrica, they mean no disrespect to the city nor to Slovaks, they are just using a commonly understood collector label for ZB plant #2.

    There is currently a thread on The Military Mauser Forum titled Orberndorf. It does not say Orberndorf am Neckar but everyone understands what it means. Orberndorf is the collector label for the main Mauser plant. The label means the plant, it really has nothing to do with the city of Orberndorf am Neckar.

    Similarly, Bystrica is the collector label for ZB plant #2. The label means the plant, it really has nothing to do with the city of Povazska Bystrica.

    Gunboards is an international forum and we are thrilled to have very knowledgeable people such as yourself as members from countries other than the United States. Still, most members are American and they will speak and write like Americans using a collector jargon and using collector labels which may be unique to American collectors.

    Regards,
    Bill

  11. #11
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    I understand fully the point You bring here, problem is that this error will occure in books too, when someone speak about some other country armoriers there should used the correct name thats my point, when i would wrote about US armory i would use a origin name no a shortage. ZB2 could be called Bystrica but this is wrong designation for Slovaks and Czechs too. There were official name of ZB, same as international trademarks.

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    I agree that full proper names should be used in books. Unfortunately, I also agree that some books may use collector labels instead.

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    Thank you for the responses, interesting information. I guessing in the years 1923 through 1939 duplicate letter blocks of 10,000 were produced? For instance there might be a 1923 produced letter B as well as a 1937 produced letter B and so on?

    And assuming that's true, only part or all, of both production runs might haver been exported. Any not exported were marked with acceptance markings and used for domestic consumption, at least that's how I'm understanding this. Please give me a shout if I'm wrong.

    I wonder too if anyone could elaborate on the China and East Asia exports?

    Thank you again for your time, Jon

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    Considering all the rifles they made, the bayonets ran through the entire alphabet over and over.

    VZ24 rifles: China got about 195,200 during 1927-1938. There was a single Japanese Navy contract for 40,000 in 1938. Romania is estimated to have received up to 750,000 during 1938-1940 or 41. Czechoslovakia got about 776,000 during 1924-1938. Then there was Yugoslavia, Iran, Iraq, USSR, and South America. For bayonets, that is 172 times through the alphabet for China, Romania, and Czechoslovakia alone (and VZ24 rifles alone).

    An interesting thing about ZB exports is that they sometimes pulled rifles from the CS Army inventory to fill a contract and later manufactured rifles to replenish the inventory. ZB might have said, "Yes, we know you can get a cheaper price from FN, but we can ship your rifles THE SAME DAY we receive your payment".

  15. #15
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    Geladen,

    Thank you for the confimation. Can you elaborate on the Chinese and Japanese contracts, for instance I've seen folks say the Japanese purchased 60,000 VZ24's. Is there a reliable source for the numbers and dates?

    The next question is a long shot, but......

    I'm going to assume the rifles were shipped in crates of ten or twenty, were the bayonets included in the crates? How about slings and frogs, those too included in the crates?

    The Persian Mausers sold by Samco for many years supposedly came out of the crates along with the test targets. However I've never seen a frog or a sling purportedly removed from the crates along with the rifles.

    Yes Samco sells slings for their Persian Mausers however the construction and quality isn't something I'd expect from CZ, they were likely made by the end user. So the question begs, at least to me, were slings and frogs options rather than a given when a potential customer was negotiating a rifle deal?

    Thank you, Jon

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    The numbers and dates come from a chart in the book Mauser Military Rifles of the World, 4th Edition by Robert Ball. I understand that John Wall prepared the chart and that is about as accurate as it gets. He lists several sources.

    I would assume that bayonets, frogs, and slings were common accessories but inclusion might vary by the contract. Too much of this is guesswork. If you can't get an answer from John Wall or Andy, it likely doesn't exist.

    I agree that Samco slings did not come from ZB. CZ, a different company, made pistols.

  17. #17
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    Hello,

    Firstly, I agree with Andy. I am irritated as well when I see improper labels being used. Any official publication should be free of these errors.

    Now, in regards to bayonets, here is a list on mine VZ.24 bayonets (not including post-WW2 ones). List include block numbers, years of production of bayonets and scabbards,

    NOTE: numbers and letter in { } are for my personal reference. SVK=Slovakia, += Slovak cross, KNIFE=conversion to fighting knife, all bayonets without export or 24(t) reference are mostly likely for domestic use. Also export references could be wrong, especially with not ROmania marked pieces.

    List is not complete, I have more VZ.24 bayonets in included and still working on number of details. Hopefully, one day I will have much better understanding of VZ.24 bayonets.

    Rusnak

    BAYONET BLOCK LETTERS
    A {48 U} Colombia? Exp, # F 16763
    B {34 S} E4 37
    C {56 U} S. America Exp,
    D {39 U} E 29, {51 U} RO Exp,
    E {38 U} Exp.
    F {12 S} E 35,
    G {24 U}24(t) E 36, {23 U}24(t) E 37, {16 U} Exp,
    H {57 U} S. America Exp, {5 S} E 35,
    I {21 U} 24(t) E 26,
    J {37 U} E4 38
    L {15 U} RO Exp,
    N {40 U} S. America Exp,
    O {6 S} E3 38,
    P {4 S} 24(t) E 28, {17 U} SVK e1 40 scab., {18 U} SVK, {19 U}E1 41, {47 U} 24(t) E 27,
    R {36 U}RO Exp.
    T {20 U}SVK,
    X {42 U}E 28 KNIFE 24(t)
    Y {11 S}, Illegible E 31?
    Z {7 S} E3 37,

    VZ.24 BAYONET PRODUCTION YEARS:
    24 {3 S}nickel E24, {22 U}24(t) E24,
    26 {21 U} 24(t) CSZ I E26,
    27 {47 U} 24(t) CSZ P, E27,
    28 {4 S} 24(t) CSZ P E28, {42 U} 24(t) KNIFE CSZ X E28
    29 {39 U} CSZ D E 29,
    35 {12 S}CSZ F E35 zabijackovy model,
    36 {24 U} 24(t) CSZ G E36,
    37 {23 U} 24(t) CSZ G E37, {7 S} CSZ Z E3 37, {34 U} CSZ B E4 37,
    38 {6 S} CSZ O E3 38, {37 U} CSZ I E4 38,
    41 {19 U}SVK CSZ P E1 41

    VZ.24 SCABBARD PRODUCTION YEARS:
    26 本39 U} E 26, {33 U} E 26,
    27 - {4 S} KM H 27,
    31 - {11 S} KM ZI 31,
    35 - {18 U} E 35,
    36 - {29 U} E 36, {34 S} E3 36,
    37 - {3 S} E3 37,
    38 - {20 U} E3 38,
    40 - {17 U} E1(+)40,
    42 - {22 U} dot 42,

  18. #18
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    Rusnak,

    Are any of those blade edge down?

    Does 24(t) mean muzzle ring removed and blued?

    Bill

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    Geladen,

    Yes, some of them have blades down, but it is not indicated in the list. I will have to go through all of the bayonets to find out.

    24(t) are modifications of regular VZ. 24 bayonets, they are in blue, but not all have rings removed.

    List does not includes bayonets made under the German occupation of Czech lands or made in Slovakia for German contracts.

    Rusnak

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    Hello Rusnak thanks for interesting chart, do You have a picture of a slovak marked E1 slovak 41 piece?

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    Andy,

    I looked for it, but cannot find it. It could be possible that I made a mistake on chart; however, I feel confident that I have somewhere E1 + 41 bayonet or at least scabbard.

    I will look some more.

    Rusnak

  22. #22
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    How about export slings and frogs? If export purpose made bayonets lack acceptance marks is it fairly safe to assume slings and frogs made specifically for export lack acceptance markings as well?

    Finally, can anyone provide more insight regarding Chinese, Japanese and Asian used VZ24 bayonets? Thank you, Jon
    Last edited by monkeyboy; 05-28-2011 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Added additional question

  23. #23
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    Here is a list of 17 VZ24 bayonets. The letter after the CSZ tells you nothing useful.

    1926 CSZ H - CS
    1927 CSZ I CS 18P on end of pommel
    1936 CSZ A CS/German muzzle ring cut, WaA883, 33 on ricasso
    1937 CSZ C CS
    1939 CSZ N CS/Romanian rework
    1940 CSZ S Slovakian/Romanian
    1946 CSZ A CS
    Export CSZ B Romanian(?) rework, swan on grip, 2914 F5 on side of pommel, made in 1938 by serial number
    Export CSZ K V on hilt and frog stud, 0755 on end of pommel
    Export CSZ C 2+15 on side of pommel
    Export CSZ D rework
    Export CSZ P P on grip
    Export CSZ B rework, F14519 on end of pommel, suspect Colombian
    Export CSZ S 937 Uruguayan, 0875 on end of pommel, edge down
    Export blank 3mm cir. Z, rework, 29160 on end of pommel, edge down
    Export blank 3mm cir. Z, rework, 6888 on end of pommel, edge down
    Export blank 3mm cir. Z, 01568 on end of pommel, edge down
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails VZ24 Bayonets.JPG  

  24. #24
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    Export slings and frogs are very hard to find.

    I would like to know more about Chinese bayonets. I have a VZ23 Long bayonet with my Chinese VZ24 rifle because I know the Chinese liked long bayonets, but I don't know that they did not use a regular VZ24 bayonet.

  25. #25
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    Default Povazska Bystrica

    Andy
    I went there last year to see what is left of the factory. When I asked the locals where the old arms factory was all I got was blank stares.Is the large complex next to the railroad station the factory? I have been to the Czech Republic and Slovakia numerous times and cannot find any old photos of the factory. Any ideas where I can locate them?
    Steve K

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by geladen View Post
    Export slings and frogs are very hard to find.
    I'm sure they are! I still wonder though, were purpose made export frogs and slings marked in any way? Anyone? Jon

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    Detailed list for Andy and Rusnak:

    Let me know if anything doesn't look right. Bayonets changed to different rifles on May 31

    1926 CSZ H LR – CS, 2mm (Z) on LC, E(lion)26 on RR, 4P 9088 on EP, B
    S: KM H(lion)27
    for VZ24 Iraqi rifle E(lion)25

    1927 CSZ I LR – CS, 3mm (Z) on LC, E(lion)27 on RR, 18P 3024 on EP, B
    S: KM H(lion)27
    for Yugoslavian VZ24 rifle

    1936 CSZ A LR – CS/German, MRR, E(lion)36, 33 on RR, WaA883 on RB, B
    S: CSZ, E3(lion)37, German frog
    for G24(t) rifle

    1937 CSZ C LR– CS, E3(lion)37
    S: CSZ, E3(lion)37, B, CS frog
    for VZ24 CS lion crest rifle E3(lion)38

    1938 CSZ B LR – Romanian(?) rework, swan on grip, 2914 F5 on SP, made in 1938 by S/N
    S: CSZ
    for VZ24 rifle S/N 14577 1937 crest

    1939 CSZ N RR – PB, CS/Romanian rework, E4(lion)39, CM, DR1914
    S: (Z), CM, FR12579
    for VZ24 Romanian rifle King Michael crest

    1940 CSZ S RR – PB, Slovakian/Romanian, E1(+)40, BR22741, B
    S: CM, E1(+)40, CR18380
    for VZ24 Romanian rifle King Carol crest

    1946 CSZ A RR – CS, E(lion)46, crossguard and blade P
    S: E(lion)46, B
    reserved for future rifle

    Export CSZ B LR – Colombian(?) rework, F14519 on EP
    S: FN type with ZB type frog stud
    extra

    Export CSZ C RR – PB, 2+15 on side of pommel
    S: CSZ
    for VZ24 Chinese rifle

    Export CSZ D LR – rework, rounded contours
    S: FN type with ZB type frog stud
    extra

    Export CSZ K LR – V between grips, 0755 on EP, B
    S: CSZ, V
    for VZ24 Guatemalan rifle

    Export CSZ P LR – 30 on SP, C on grip
    S: CSZ
    for VZ12/33 El Salvadorian carbine

    Export CSZ S RR – PB, Uruguayan, 0875 937 on EP, edge down, crossguard and blade P
    S: sunburst, CSZ, 0875 937, B
    reserved for future rifle

    Export blank – 2mm (Z) on RC, rework, 29160 on EP, edge down, B
    S: CSZ
    for VZ24 Spanish Civil War rifle

    Export blank – 2mm (Z) on RC, rework, 6888 on EP, edge down, B
    S: FN type with ZB type frog stud
    for Colombian VZ24 rifle

    Export blank – 2mm (Z) on RC, 01568 on EP, edge down, B
    S: Peruvian type frog stud
    for VZ24 (Lightened) Brazilian rifle

    VZ23 Long bayonet CSZ LR – 3mm (Z) on LC, 2mm (Z) on spine
    S: CSZ
    for VZ24 Iranian rifle

    VZ23 Short bayonet CSZ LR – 3mm (Z) on RC, E(lion)23 on RR, B6759 on SP, B
    S: CSZ, E(lion)23
    for VZ98/22 Turkish long rifle

    VZ08/34 Brazilian bayonet – M1908 style, only S/N and Brazilian markings
    S: only S/N and Brazilian markings, made of leather
    for VZ08/34 Brazilian carbine

    VZ98/29 bayonet – only S/N and Iranian markings
    S: no markings, French type frog stud
    for VZ98/29 Iranian long rifle

    VZ98/29 bayonet – only S/N and Iranian markings
    S: no markings, French type frog stud
    extra

    VZ98/29 bayonet – only S/N and Iranian markings (Iranian made)
    S: no markings, French type frog stud
    for M1949 Iranian carbine (Iranian made)

    RR = right ricasso
    LR = left ricasso
    RC = right crossguard
    LC = left crossguard
    EP = end of pommel
    SP = side of pommel
    S = scabbard
    RB = release button
    B = blued
    P = phosphate
    S/N = serial number
    MRR = muzzle ring removed
    PB = Povazska Bystrica
    CS = Czechoslovakian
    (+) = Slovakian emblem
    Last edited by geladen; 05-31-2011 at 03:10 PM. Reason: reassigned some rifles

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    To Steve K. is probably near the railway station and should be probably closed now, only few buildings are used, there was for a short time a small ammunition plant PovZbroj, when i am correct.But since 2004 there is moved from the location. There are not many pictures avialable, as the firm where mostly in 80 ies only a motorcycle plant, they dont produced ammo for longer time.
    To Geladen thanks for adding the detials, the WaA883 lock nut is probably from a german SG84/98 not origin there

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    In the list, the LR markings is not PB but Brno plant
    "1937 CSZ C LR PB, CS, E3(lion)37
    S: CSZ, E3(lion)37, B, CS frog
    for VZ24 CS lion crest rifle E3(lion)38"

    Export blank 2mm (Z) on RC, rework, 6888 on EP, edge down, B
    S: CSZ
    for Yugoslavian VZ24 rifle
    -dont believe the Yugoslavians got the edge down version, there are normal made Vz.24

    VZ23 Long bayonet CSZ LR 3mm (Z) on LC, 2mm (Z) on spine
    S: CSZ
    for VZ24 Chinese rifle
    -there is too no report of long Vz.23 bayonets sent to China

    best regards,Andy

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    I jkust got a VZ23 long with inverted blade and no hilt groove, can't wait to get it and see how its marked the Ebay pictures didnt show any and the seller said it was unmarked

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyB View Post
    To Geladen thanks for adding the detials, the WaA883 lock nut is probably from a german SG84/98 not origin there
    WaA883 was used in Solingen in 1940-1942. I don't know where it was used in 1938-1939. Do you have any information on when and where the CS bayonets were modified by the Germans and which waffenamt numbers were used?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyB View Post
    In the list, the LR markings is not PB but Brno plant
    "1937 CSZ C LR– PB, CS, E3(lion)37
    S: CSZ, E3(lion)37, B, CS frog
    for VZ24 CS lion crest rifle E3(lion)38"

    Export blank – 2mm (Z) on RC, rework, 6888 on EP, edge down, B
    S: CSZ
    for Yugoslavian VZ24 rifle
    -dont believe the Yugoslavians got the edge down version, there are normal made Vz.24

    VZ23 Long bayonet CSZ LR – 3mm (Z) on LC, 2mm (Z) on spine
    S: CSZ
    for VZ24 Chinese rifle
    -there is too no report of long Vz.23 bayonets sent to China

    best regards,Andy
    Andy,

    In the first above, I now understand that the CSZ was put on the left ricasso by Brno 1923-1937, then later on the right ricasso. Thanks for the correction.

    In the second above, do you have any information on who used the blade edge down VZ24 bayonets? I put that bayonet with a Yugoslavian rifle because the bayonet date of 1924-1926 [2mm (Z)] matched the contract dates of 1926-1930. Do you have firm information that the Yugoslavs used only blade edge up bayonets?

    In the third above, do you have any information on who used the VZ23 Long blade edge up bayonets? I put that bayonet with a Chinese rifle because the bayonet date of 1927-1933 [3mm (Z)] matched the contract dates of 1927-1938. Also because I know the Chinese liked long bayonets. Do you have firm information that the Chinese used only VZ24 bayonets?

    I may put the VZ23 Long bayonet with my Iranian VZ24 rifle because the Iranian VZ98/29 bayonet I am using will not fit over the cleaning rod (no cleaning holes in bayonet). I am having no luck finding an Iranian VZ98/29 bayonet with cleaning holes.

    Regards,
    Bill
    Last edited by geladen; 05-30-2011 at 01:29 PM. Reason: changed 2 and 3mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by old-smithy View Post
    I jkust got a VZ23 long with inverted blade and no hilt groove, can't wait to get it and see how its marked the Ebay pictures didnt show any and the seller said it was unmarked
    Carl,

    By "hilt groove" do you mean the bayonet lug channel? If so, then this would be a sidearm and not a bayonet?

    What was the auction number? I was looking at what I thought was a Yugo M1924 Long bayonet on Ebay that was unmarked. I wonder if that is the one you bought?

    Regards,
    Bill

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    Andy
    Many thanks for the reply. I have been to the Brno factory a few times before it closed. That was a
    very large complex. I believe that the PB complex I saw must have been the old arms factory.
    By the way, I love Slovakia.
    Steve

  35. #35
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    Is this correct, or can it be improved?

    CSZ was put on the left ricasso by ZB Brno 1923-1937, then on the right ricasso 1937-1940 and 1946-1950.

    CSZ was put on the left ricasso by ZB Povazska Bystrica in 1937-1940.

    3mm (Z) was used on right crossguard 1923
    2mm (Z) was used on left crossguard 1924-1926
    3mm (Z) was used on left crossguard 1927-1933

    VZ23 Short bayonet E(lion)23 S/N B6759 was observed with 3mm (Z) on right crossguard. VZ23 Long bayonet observed with 3mm (Z) on left crossguard and 2mm (Z) on spine. Does that mean this particular VZ23 Long bayonet with 3mm (Z) could have been made either in 1923 or in 1927-1933, but not in 1924-1926?
    Last edited by geladen; 05-30-2011 at 01:24 PM. Reason: 2 and 3mm changed

  36. #36
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    CSZ was put on the left ricasso by ZB Brno 1923-1939 and on right ricasso 1945-1950.

    CSZ was put on the right ricasso by ZB Povazska Bystrica in 1937-1940.

    3mm (Z) was used on right crossguard 1923
    3mm (Z) was used on left crossguard 1924-1926
    2mm (Z) was used on left crossguard 1927-1933
    -this is not so important because its internal control stamp,some Z in circle could be not so exact date.

    Do you have firm information that the Yugoslavs used only blade edge up bayonets? there is no evidence of sending special configuration to Yugoslavia so i assume it was normal edge up position

    In the third above, do you have any information on who used the VZ23 Long blade edge up bayonets? Czechoslovakia, Persia, Lithuania and one unknown country

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    i know its not a bayonet as such but its a version of one :-) 250827956478 guy wrote and told me it was ims identified and offerd to tak eit back since his ID was wrong, nice guy.

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    Here is a mystery. The bayonet described below should have been made in 1938. The serial number is a 1938 serial number.

    The location of the serial number is unusual, upside down on the left side of the pommel instead of on the end of the pommel. Perhaps the end user stamped that serial number there?

    So when and where was the bayonet made and who used it? Does the swan marking really belong to Romania or not? The bayonet does look very, very similar to a rework bayonet I have with CM markings and no swan. The cleaning holes on both are very long and narrow.


    1938 CSZ B LR – Romanian(?) rework, swan on grip, 2914 F5 on SP, made in 1938 by S/N 14577 and no indication of who the user was.
    S: CSZ

    I put this bayonet with a VZ24 rifle that is also a mystery. It has a 1937 crest, S/N 14577, and no indication of who the user was (but it may have been Romania).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC01793.JPG   DSC01794.JPG   DSC01797.JPG   DSC01798.JPG   DSC01799.JPG   DSC01800.JPG  

    Last edited by geladen; 05-30-2011 at 08:22 PM. Reason: spelling

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by old-smithy View Post
    i know its not a bayonet as such but its a version of one :-) 250827956478 guy wrote and told me it was ims identified and offerd to tak eit back since his ID was wrong, nice guy.
    That looks to be a standard Iranian VZ98/29 bayonet. A photo of the crown on the end of the pommel will show if it is of ZB or Iranian manufacture. Maybe "THE SLOT IS NOT FUNCTIONAL" just means the release button is stuck. I have unstuck many stuck buttons. If there is no slot, you have a rare beast.

    I sure wish it had cleaning holes, if it did I would buy it from you in a heartbeat.

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    i hope its not just a stuck button, but i snapped it up on the chance it has no slot, dosnt look in rough enough condition for a stuck button, but it wont be the first time i've bought a pig int eh poke from snappiugn up soemthing ;-) or won well because i did.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyB View Post
    CSZ was put on the left ricasso by ZB Brno 1923-1939 and on right ricasso 1945-1950.

    CSZ was put on the right ricasso by ZB Povazska Bystrica in 1937-1940.

    3mm (Z) was used on right crossguard 1923
    3mm (Z) was used on left crossguard 1924-1926
    2mm (Z) was used on left crossguard 1927-1933
    -this is not so important because its internal control stamp,some Z in circle could be not so exact date.

    Do you have firm information that the Yugoslavs used only blade edge up bayonets? there is no evidence of sending special configuration to Yugoslavia so i assume it was normal edge up position

    In the third above, do you have any information on who used the VZ23 Long blade edge up bayonets? Czechoslovakia, Persia, Lithuania and one unknown country


    Thanks, Andy. I'll make a record of what you wrote about the CSZ on the left and right ricasso. Maybe I can remember it this time.

    So would the VZ23 Long blade edge up bayonet be correct for my Iranian VZ24 rifle? Please say yes.

    And I understand from the above that there is NO information as to who used the VZ24 blade edge down bayonets (?)

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    i have edge up ex Czech vz23's with persian markings and edge down new made for persia wioth edge down, and both Czech and persian frog studs, look at my Iran pages
    Last edited by old-smithy; 05-30-2011 at 08:58 PM. Reason: country correction

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    Carl, I think you have convinced me it is OK to put my VZ23 Long blade edge up bayonet with my Iranian VZ24 rifle. My long search for an Iranian VZ98/29 bayonet with cleaning holes has ended. Now I can put the VZ23 Long bayonet on my rifle without first removing the cleaning rod, as I had to do with the VZ98/29 bayonet.

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    Now you will see dozens of them everywhere ;-)

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    No doubt I will.

    Andy said they exist but I have never seen one. The ZB made and Iranian made VZ98/29 bayonets have only a short hole for the cleaning rod and have no cleaning holes like the VZ23 Long and VZ24 bayonets have. The cleaning holes indicate that the cleaning rod hole runs the full length of the hilt.

    The VZ98/29 rifles and M1949 carbines come with short cleaning rods and the VZ98/29 bayonets will fit them. I suppose the VZ30 carbines are the same but I don't have one. I found an Iranian VZ24 rifle - somewhat uncommon - and it came with no cleaning rod. I put a standard VZ24 cleaning rod in it and the VZ98/29 bayonet I got for it would not fit. Now the VZ23 Long bayonet fits fine.

    This has been a good exercise for me. By placing all my ZB bayonets side by side and making notes of the markings, I was able to play "musical bayonets" and reassign bayonets to rifles for which they were a better match - especially the Iranian VZ24 rifle.

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