Water storage and drinking water safety
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Thread: Water storage and drinking water safety

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    Exclamation Water storage and drinking water safety

    in a survival situation it is important to have the ability to quickly be able to transfer
    large amounts of liquid to smaller clean immediately available containers......

    we keep all the larger 3 liter water container for this purposes in a pinch.
    example: got a phone call a few years back.....i was given 75 apex gallons of number. 2 furnace oil.....
    the catch had to be move that day.....they had sold the tank to be picked up late that evening,and was putting the heat pump in the same spot next day.....
    no time to look for empty jugs..... no problem at $ 3.00 a gallon....
    i took all my water jugs # 100 of them (that i carried spring water in) and off to the free oil......
    the same in a SHTF stitutation.....a lucky find is only luck if you can quickly get it to your safe area.......the key words...."carry quickly"

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    Word to the wise. recycled plastic jugs like the ones used by Arizona green tea if frozen will split or shatter. I use those to make ice for fishing trips. fill em to the top and freeze, then hold two of them and bang them together over the cooler and voila two nice 8 lb blocks. they are very brittle though and not a good choice to store water or anything else in cold weather.
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    If you leave a 12~15% airspace in the top this won't be a problem. When water turns to Ice it expands, so you have to leave room for the expansion.
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    I made the mistake of putting kerosine in

    gallon milk jugs for a heater . It disolved

    some of the plastic from the jugs and

    permeated the wick of the heater making

    in unuseable . Now I only buy the blue

    '' kerosine only '' jugs .



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    Plonker I fill mine to the top on purpose but the recycled Poly ethyene is temp sensitive and will crack at around 0-12 f regardless of how much liquid is in them. Some recycled jugs and bottles have some virgin PE in the blend and fare much better.
    Oldgoat46
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    the only thing i store long term...is springwater......the jugs intended purpose.......
    but in a pinch i used them to transport the fuel to the 550 gallon oil tank..............
    what i'm stressing is the ability to use containers to quickly transport liquids in shtf situation ..before it is lost or stolen......quickest response to obtained the product.....wins.

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    DK

    I assume you either boil or in some

    other way sterilize your stored spring

    water before drinking

    because it can turn stagnant and build

    up some really nasty bacteria .



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    I think of my stored water as being unsafe to drink before I add bleach even though the bottles are still sealed, because, it's at least a couple years old. Most was bottled in 2009/2010. However, old bottled water is going to start out cleaner and be easier to make safe than new water from any unknown source such as a pond or bog.

    I think DK's point was water bottles as in the container, and not bottled water as in the contents. The problem which we have had some mention of before is; is it worth storing a quantity of empty bottles for the space they take up just for some future use we may have for them? They are ideal only for water. If you need to transport other liquids or solids there is something better and designed for the purpose. I think in the case of 75 gallons of free fuel oil that had to be picked up right away, I probably would have used a trash can lined with heavy grade bags rather than wasting the water or the jugs which could then no longer be used for drinking water. However, I would have made the same decision to dump out the water and use those jugs too under those circumstances with nothing else available. The water is replaced (now) for a lot less money than the free fuel oil or whatever the jugs could have been used for was worth. I have said, and still say, I would not store empty containers that take up the same amount of space as full containers. That just doesn't make any sense for me.
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    the spring water tested by county is from a artesian well.....
    was stored in basement cool all year....used for cooking only, coffee / tea/ drinking after boiled whats left in tea pot ....
    used up in a month or so.....
    a drop of bleach was put in it when empty... so they could be sloshed out clean at the water site when
    refield......20 + years no problems yet...
    now kids grown, we use about 50 a month...
    i have gout i use no chlorinated water....wife has immunity issues boiling even more important now!
    FUDD your correct as containers..... was my point....

    PS: some usefully shtf information.. plastic water bottles have an refilling expiration do in-part to flexing of the plastic splits accrue in the stressing, popping as you pore...after about 5 or six refills..
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 06-20-2011 at 09:08 AM.

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    Another thing to think about if re-using plastic milk jugs is the fact that UV will cause them to deteriorate very quickly. Store them out of the sun, and they will last a lot longer.
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    Kind of branching off a little.
    Don't forget Ziploc bags as water containers either. I have lots of things in the ruck in Ziploc bags in quart & gallon sizes for keeping water out, but when emptied they will also keep water in acting as soft sided containers that can be dried & returned to the original purpose.
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    Funny this should come up. Over the past year, and especially during the last three months, I have developed what well could become a continuing personal aversion to water jugs as a general thing, and circa five-gallon yellow plastic ones with red lids in particular. I really don't like seeing them. If I start storing water I'll probably go with large, opaque plastic barrels.

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    The liner from a 5 liter box of wine (yes, I sometimes drink wine from a box) can be folded to a very small package and are fairly tough and can be handy emergency containers for liquids.

    A friend of mine was talking to me about his hurricane preparations. He lived in a condo in Fl. and was worried about having enough water stored. I suggested that he buy a couple cheap waterbed mattresses and store them in a closet. When a storm threatens he can lay them out on the floor and fill them with water. I would not use them for drinking water if I had a choice, but they would be great for washing and then flushing water which could make a big difference in his quality of life till the pumps came back on line. And laying on an unheated waterbed when it is hot and the AC is off can feel pretty good. What do you think Alan? You’re a Floridian. Did my suggestion have any merit?

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    Good idea Ranger. A water bed mattress is very durable, made to hold water for years without leaking. Wish I'd though of that. If I remember correctly, you attach a garden hose for emptying and filling a water bed, so I guess it wouldn't be too hard to make some sort of valve that would allow you to draw small quantities of water in a controllable manner that could be used for washing and flushing, but not for drinking. For drinking water there is a product I like called a Water BOB or aqua pod which is a bladder that you fill in your bathtub for a hundred gallons of potable water. 1 2 Bravo, I don't know what you have against water kegs. They are a good way to dispense water out of the 5 gallon jugs instead of using a pump. Decanting the water into the keg is a good way to aerate the water after you have added bleach or flavor mix and you can drop in a block of ice and you've got cold water for a couple of days. I have two of them but only one is yellow with a red lid.
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    could be the terrain 12B recently saw said water jug in.
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    What was that bad-for-you chemical that plastic jugs leach into the water they contain again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IamElmerJFudd View Post
    1 2 Bravo, I don't know what you have against water kegs. ... I have two of them but only one is yellow with a red lid.
    I had nothing against them at all for the first couple seasons over here; they are a godsend to the locals when the wells break down and were also used to salvage spilling fuel from airdrop-damaged fuel drums.

    I'm rather curious where you got the yellow and red one. I'd get a lot of long laughs if I added one such (inert) to my militaria display.

    I suppose any innocent object -- not just a firearm -- is subject to criminal misuse.
    Last edited by One Two Bravo; 06-21-2011 at 06:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstuffer View Post
    What was that bad-for-you chemical that plastic jugs leach into the water they contain again?
    They are media called "plasticides" what they are are free radical polymers....you will only find them in cheap plastics (not those intended for long term storage) and even then you need to chemically, mechanically, or thermally change the bottle (yes is some conditions leaving in a car on a hot day can do it....in SOME conditions).

    (Sorry pet peeve of mine as a Chem Eng to be constantly told by the media and those that flunked chemistry and biology that "All plastics will kill you" )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade1 View Post
    They are media called "plasticides" what they are are free radical polymers....you will only find them in cheap plastics (not those intended for long term storage) and even then you need to chemically, mechanically, or thermally change the bottle (yes is some conditions leaving in a car on a hot day can do it....in SOME conditions).

    (Sorry pet peeve of mine as a Chem Eng to be constantly told by the media and those that flunked chemistry and biology that "All plastics will kill you" )
    Are we talking about BPA here, or something else? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A
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    i have a rain barrel for flushing....

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    What was that bad-for-you chemical that {{SOME}} plastic jugs leach into the water they contain again?
    Fixed it for you.

    One of the things that make plastics "food grade" or not, is what can leach out of or be dissolved from the material used.

    IIRC "Nalagene" (the material not the brand) & most plastics marked on the container as "PP" are perfectly safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBC View Post
    Are we talking about BPA here, or something else? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A
    yep

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    wink2 plastic fantastic.....if it don't leak....

    in the throws of shtf...... your thinking the need / situation your not very worried about PLASTICS LEECHING INTO YOUR SYSTEM.....!
    if you are ..........ASK YOUR SELVES: are you yuppies survivalist ?

    you will not have time to analyze plastic jugs?
    if your in need containers right then!
    no new one's are at that time being made. remember....everything went down the tubs! and clean plastic containers will be a premium.......
    no matter the recycling values....the value is in the non leaking container........

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    Default The Two Liter Bottles

    Another plastic liquid container to consider, besides the jugs, are the two-liter bottles that's used for soft-drinks or soda-pop.

    Such bottles are built strong to withstand the pressure from beverage carbonation, and they can be used for other things aside from liquid storage: Such as cutting off the bottom half of the bottle and use the top-half as a disposable funnel.

    If a person needs to transfer liquid and is in need of a funnel, the two-liter bottle design is very good when it is cut into two.

    Even the cutaway bottom half of the bottle can be used as a disposable open container to temporarily hold liquids of a quart/liter amount.

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    Bravo, I was referring to one of these Igloo water kegs in yellow with the red lid, but I get the feeling now that you are talking about something else. My other one is blue with a white lid.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Igloo 5gal keg.jpg  

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    Alan, thanks. I just checked and you can get a waterbed mattress for around $60. I would avoid a used one as I don't know what chemicals they use to keep algae from growing in them.You would want one of the ‘Full Wave’ kind as the ‘waveless’ ones have baffles and floats that you don’t need and take up extra space. You fill and empty them through a pull out spout, like on a beach ball, which is located on top in one corner. (Yes. In my younger days I actually owned a waterbed.)

    I figure a Queen size will hold about 180 gallons. Two of those will give you a lot of helmet baths and toilet flushes. You could even wash a few dishes and do a little laundry.

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    No need to wash dishes after a short term natural disaster, my hurricane supplies include several hundred count of paper plates, and bowls, and plastic table ware. If we are in a situation more dire than the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster I wouldn't count on enough water pressure to fill a tea pot let alone a waterbed. I do have a manual pump to attach to my well head when the time comes and will wash my dishes in a tub right out by the pump.
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    If you have a Berkey or even a chlorine pretreat and a decent simple filter .. it doesn't much matter if the water comes from a water bed, algeacides and all, a rain barrel, or a scummed up pond, or the water in a rusty 30 year old CD barrel.

    If you are going to give up a two car garage to store a couple thousand plastic bottles, or cover your floor in a couple rooms with sloshing water beds, might was well get a good filtering system so you can drink it.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 06-22-2011 at 04:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    If you have a Berkey or even a chlorine pretreat and a decent simple filter .. it doesn't much matter if the water comes from a water bed, algeacides and all, a rain barrel, or a scummed up pond, or the water in a rusty 30 year old CD barrel.

    If you are going to give up a two car garage to store a couple thousand plastic bottles, or cover your floor in a couple rooms with sloshing water beds, might was well get a good filtering system so you can drink it.
    +1 to carbon filter for removing these chemicals from water. DON'T rely on distillation as the more volatile organics can go overhead with the water.

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    i told you guys....back when they decommissioned the secret 1950's stocked fall out shelter in my old high school...a few 50 gallon barrels when opened the fed. dipped out a cup drank it said it tasted good! i got the Geiger counter on the slide.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Z View Post
    The liner from a 5 liter box of wine (yes, I sometimes drink wine from a box) can be folded to a very small package and are fairly tough and can be handy emergency containers for liquids.

    A friend of mine was talking to me about his hurricane preparations. He lived in a condo in Fl. and was worried about having enough water stored. I suggested that he buy a couple cheap waterbed mattresses and store them in a closet. When a storm threatens he can lay them out on the floor and fill them with water. I would not use them for drinking water if I had a choice, but they would be great for washing and then flushing water which could make a big difference in his quality of life till the pumps came back on line. And laying on an unheated waterbed when it is hot and the AC is off can feel pretty good. What do you think Alan? You’re a Floridian. Did my suggestion have any merit?
    Yes, and as we found out when the bag is empty you can blow it up and use it for a pillow.
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    children large swimming pools filled .....bleached.. use for cleaning, flushing...springs everywhere around here water not much of a problem.....

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    Water? What's that? It's 110 outside with 7% humidity. Water outside does not stay very long.

    I keep bottled water bottles to reuse when I go out in the desert. I keep 5 - 6 empty bottles. There is a trick to storing the empty bottles though. With the 35 - 40 degree temperature swings we have a sealed empty bottles will crack just from the contraction and expansion. I have a 35 gallon plastic drum (got from local bottling company for $15) and two plastic black "jerry" cans and inherited four five gallon fuel jugs for non-potable water use. I have also use frosting 2 & 3 gallon containers with snap on lids from the grocery store bakery. Their not pretty but they work and fairly cheap.

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    Default Best method for GI five-gallon plastic water can cleaning / sanitizing.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on the best method to cleaning / sanitizing GI five-gallon plastic water can with the contents for human consumption.?

    Thanks,

    Paddy

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    Not sure what you are asking .. Do you want to somehow clean and sanitize the contents of a 5 gallon water can.. or the empty can itself or the contents of the can while still in the can? and if it is the contents , are the contents just water? or something else?

    Some possibilites

    http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oemergencypurifycalc.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablets

    http://www.filtersfast.com/Outdoor-W...ilters-cat.asp

    http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/ber..._purifier.aspx

    http://www.ehow.com/how_5978892_clea...ater-tank.html
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    Wash thoroughly with dish liquid . Let dry

    and store . If you think it needs more then

    fill it with water and add one ounce of bleach .

    Let it set overnite . Rinse and wash again .

    Dry thoroughly and store .



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    depends what was the last stored liquid? if not water its not usable for drinking again in my opinion.,.
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 07-07-2011 at 09:16 PM.

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    Water with bleach to sanitize, water and dishwashing detergent to clean that pickle smell out.
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    hot soapy water then hot water rinse
    vinegar will remove the residue from any soap. unless you have really HOT water to rinse w/ you will have soap residue. then water to rinse vinegar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billofthenorth2 View Post
    Water with bleach to sanitize, water and dishwashing detergent to clean that pickle smell out.
    Correct.... But let the container sit for 24hrs before washing it out with the dishwashing soap and rinse with cold water.
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    There is powder that's used to sanitize beer making equipment between batches. It's inexpensive and can be bought at any beer-making store or ordered on line.

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    Default Integrity of Bottled Water in Hot Cars and Bottle Refilling

    A couple of times, I've left bottled water in the car trunk for a week or more before I remembered it was there and brought it indoors.

    A grocer told me that it's okay to drink as long as the seal is intact, no leakage.

    Does anyone know for sure? And how long can you use the refilled bottles filled with tap water or whatever you can find and purify, if in the wilderness?

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    the plactic used in the bottle is the issue. The plastic, when it is warmed, will release a chemical into the water thats not good. I forget the particulars, but in large amounts, its harmful. BUT, I have about 200 liters of water in my basement in cleaned and refilled 2 liter pop bottles, and in an emergency, I'd drink all of it. I would die of dehydration A LOT SOONER than I would from the chemical releases. I talked to a science teacher at the high school I work at about this (a chem teacher) and his response was its not great, but really not going to harm you in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Star View Post
    A couple of times, I've left bottled water in the car trunk for a week or more before I remembered it was there and brought it indoors.

    A grocer told me that it's okay to drink as long as the seal is intact, no leakage.

    Does anyone know for sure? And how long can you use the refilled bottles filled with tap water or whatever you can find and purify, if in the wilderness?
    I've got a case flat of water in the detatched garage that, right now, is going on 6 or 7 years old. There's nothing wrong with it.
    Left over from a camping trip, shunted off to the side over winter, forgotten about.
    Spotted every once in a while, yes, I HAVE drank some, there's nothing wrong with it.

    Water, with nothing added to it, does not "go bad" in storage.

    I won't bring up my Camelback's.............................. It doesn't just "go bad" in those either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    the plactic used in the bottle is the issue. The plastic, when it is warmed, will release a chemical into the water thats not good. I forget the particulars, but in large amounts, its harmful. BUT, I have about 200 liters of water in my basement in cleaned and refilled 2 liter pop bottles, and in an emergency, I'd drink all of it. I would die of dehydration A LOT SOONER than I would from the chemical releases. I talked to a science teacher at the high school I work at about this (a chem teacher) and his response was its not great, but really not going to harm you in the long run.

    The only issue i see with your storage is that it's in reused bottles, so they won't have a seal on them and could be a petri dish after a while.
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