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Dutch Beaumont

15K views 36 replies 13 participants last post by  Manowar 
#1 ·
Hi All.
I am a new member of gunboards and have over several years of owning my Dutch Beaumont M1871 Carbine, tried to (but unsuccessfully) find out more about it and wondering if it could have been a production piece. Or could I have the only one in existence, perhaps it could be that at some time in it's life someone has altered it for there own use?
Measurements are: over all:38½"...Barrel length:18½".
http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232fp73397>nu%3D%3A%3A96>%3A68>243>WSNRCG%3D34%3B36358<3334nu0mrj

 
#31 ·
@jarmann
Thanks for the information.
Martens / de Vries are well known authors and have written many specialized books.
The books you are referring to are part of a series of books covering small arms of the dutch army.
If anyone is interested :
http://www.sipublicaties.nl/default.asp?pagina=engels
Not sure if they are in English language though...

I do not have these books main reason is that I collect bayonets (Dutch) and simply could not resist to pick up some rifles throughout the years.
Hopefully coming year when I have some extra cash at hand, because there is also a lot of information about Dutch bayonets.

So far I was able to find information on the net.
The Dutch Army museum has dedicated pages on the Beaumont and are working hard to make their collection available through the net much has been added, pictures and info about firearms and bayonets.

The lengths of the rods I have :
Spare 81.0 cm
Vitali 80.5 cm
Odd 86.8 cm

Some extra information on the Beaumont bayonets.
The sword bayonet comes in 3 variations, 1st pattern, copy of Chassepot, 2nd pattern, rivet replaced with bolt and nut and 3rd pattern most commonly found, bolt and nut but modified for long leaf spring.

Hardly known but the socket bayonet has 3 versions of the bridge.
-Open bridge.
-Contoured a la Swiss Vetterli sockets.
-Something in between, can't find the right words and the poker is hiding somewhere in my vault...

@dutchm95
I think they are the same,
It doesn't take much to get a distorted image, I guess the only way to be certain would be to compare dimensions.

@fausto4
Right now not in the mood to take it apart, will do that in the coming days.
Description :
Looks like Navy pattern, but does not take a bayonet, the mounting rail and "notch".
are not present and there is no evidence of them ever being there.
The socket bayonets do not fit, socket diameter to large.
Diameter of barrel is the same like Chassepot.
Bolt head cover, appears to be the same as shown in the patent drawing.
Extractor is pinned.
Rear sight, has graduation marks but no numbers.

No Dutch markings, no production date.
Only a few markings are visible on the outside, crowned N on various parts like rifle bands, butt plate.
On receiver "de Beaumont" over "Maastricht".
Guidance rail of bolt, one side "de Beaumont" over "Maastricht" followed by "brevete".
Other side Belgian proofs.
Firing pin assembly, guidance rail, one side, stylish EdB encircled, I guess a no brainer, Eduard de Beaumont.
Stock, no cartouche, on one side between trigger and firing pin assembly, "de Beaumont" over "Maastricht".
When the stock is removed, underneath the barrel, ELG without crown, caliber 10.2 and some more proofs, all Belgian.
But like I said I would have to take it apart for more detailed information.
 
#32 ·
dear cat ,
took a look at the navy bayonet ,marked: p.stevens maastricht ,inspectors mark :JF under crown no 2023 and B under crown
modified from short to long leaf spring as you wrote ! 8
the bridge is that the part that has to slip over the front sight ?,I have 2 versions the 1 and the 2 bolt , the 2 bolt variation dates from 1875 when the war departement decided to use two piece steel rings( stormring in dutch) instead of the old iron one bolt ring ,the knil took over the modification in 1877 ,the bayonet where made also in steel from that time on.
the safety on the beaumonts dates from 1870 and was rejected in 1878 you can see that on the receivers, the holes are filled up , as usual the knil protested as well as the ministery of colonies , dicussions about the item took until 1886, the safety remained in the knil !!!!!
I reload for both rifles ,I'm still looking for a shootable signle shot infantery one .
greetings from flanders
jarmann

ps I come back later on the "fausto " rifle " jean joseph Cloes " of liege made some chassepot looking needle fire beaumonds

t
 
#33 · (Edited)
Where do I find your navy bayonet ?

Sounds pretty much like the one I have, comparable markings.

Nope I am not talking about the locking rings aka "stormring", they come in 2 variations, 1 piece and 2 piece.
I am talking about the 1st piece that slips over the front sight, I am not sure but "mortise bridge" might be more accurate.
3 versions exist, were only the open bridge is found on 1st and 2nd pattern,
the other 2 only on 1st pattern Beaumont socket bayonets.

Besides from the KNIL also the navy sticked to the single shot with safety old style.

Following links have been very helpful :
http://militaryrifles.com/
http://www.eddydebeaumont.nl/
Dutch Army Museum, search engine of their database/collection :
http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/home.html
Sadly in Dutch and many documents are in old Dutch as well...
But for some pretty pictures :
Beaumont rifle and bayonets :
http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i005940.html
M95, Mannlicher :
http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i003514.html
Or try a search for "bajonet", "karabijn", "geweer", Remington, etc.

Chassepot looking needle fire beaumonds ?
Sounds interesting.

 

(pics from Dutch Army Museum).
 
#34 ·
dear cat

found the navy bayonet with scabbard on a local fair her in flanders at arthur dorst from den haag stand ,you certainly now him ,its in mint condition ,but it was also a mint price !!!! but the rifle is also in excellent condition so it was worth to purchase ,saw two other ones at the monthly" wavre fair" few months ago (no scabbards) prices 600/700 eur( unknown dutch dealer )condition fair
made a copy of the navy sling out of a suisse veterlli one ( with string fastening ,type martini henry ) no button
the beaumont rifle is a combination of 3 systems : chassepot ,mauser-norris ,and the liege gunmaker cloes( the system of the spring in the bolt handle )is from this man , in fact beaumont did't invent nothing he was a handy dealer who made combine different systems ,according to the dutch autor philips , cloes made the first beaumont in 1867/68
beaumond did the same as winchester did (shirts dealer ) they had the money and relations to use and let combine the knowledge of others
this is all written in the " the good book "of martens and de vries
greetings from the south
met vriendelijke groeten
jarmann
 
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