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Thread: Looking for information on Polish K98 Mausers

  1. #1
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    Default Looking for information on Polish K98 Mausers

    My brother and I just purchased a pair of Polish K98 Mausers (1927 and 1925) and was hoping someone would be able to help me determine the rifle's history and maybe help me determine if I overpaid. Both of us are just starting to collect WWII rifles, but don't really have the means to buy exactly what we would love to own.

    The 1925 Warsaw rifle I have been able to find a bit if information on, but I can't seem to find much information on the 1927 FB Radom K98 Mauser.

    The serial numbers on both rifles are all matching except for the bolt and magazine lift plate. These seem to have been replaced, although the Radom bolt handle looks to be consistent with those coming out of that factory in 1927 (this is determined from what little information I could find on that rifle). The bolt handle is turned down with a flat side on the ball. The outside of the rifle I would say is fair condition although the bore has some pitting that I either mistook or was covered up by the fouling at the store. These rifles apparently were bought by the dealer as a pair from someone's collection and it appears although the Warsaw rifle was well taken care of the Radom rifle was a little neglected. Neither rifle has any electro-pencilling or import marks and so I assume they are not captures. Is that true and does this mean they could have been used by the Polish Home Army, this possibility is why I fell in love them.) Are there any other markings that could determine if they were captures? Any information would be helpful. I will see if I can post some pictures soon, both rifles are at my brother's right now.

    Also is there something that can be done about the pitting\fouling. We have cleaned with Hopps, but there is still some stubborn fouling still in there and some pitting in spots down the length of the bore. I have read that the weapon might be a candidate for lapping, but at the same time have been told there is really nothing that can be done other than re barreling. We plan on getting some JB Bore cleaning paste and polish to see what we can do. I know it won't remove pitting or put a sharp edge on the rifling, but figured we would try to use it to give a good cleaning anyway.

    Thanks for any information you can give. Also is there a place that any one knows of where I can do additional research.

  2. #2
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    Until you get a chance to post some pics, and someone with a lot more knowledge than I have can help you out this might be a good place to start for some interesting backgrounds.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...wz.29-Research
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore is not an act, but a habit- -- Aristotle

    Looking for cocking sleeve #75.

  3. #3
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    Thank you. That was some good information. Well I'm headed down to pick up my rifle today. So I should get some pictures posted tonight.

  4. #4

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    Here is a small website with good, basic information:

    http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/foreign/h...kri/Rifles.htm

    The Polish Mausers with intact markings are hard to find. I have only one currently, a kb wz. 1898a. Completely mismatched and, IIRC, Radom made in 1937.

  5. #5
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    Well here are a few pictures of the 1927 Radom Rifle.
    Tried to get pictures of as many markings as I could, but my camera isn't all that great. Here is what I was able to get.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20110924_120330.jpg   IMG_20110924_120505.jpg   IMG_20110924_120622.jpg   IMG_20110924_120705.jpg   IMG_20110924_121405.jpg   IMG_20110924_121549.jpg  

    IMG_2492.jpg  
    Last edited by emmerthalc; 09-24-2011 at 12:48 PM.

  6. #6
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    I have the brother to the Radom K98 you have. Note these are P.W.B. Radom, not F.B. Radom, which is what the factory was called in 1927. My four digit K98 matches in two distinct ways - the bolt, front and rear sight and magazine follower are all matching to themselves. The stock, front and rear bands, stacking rod and buttplate are matched to themselves with a different serial number. I can't remember off hand if the magazine floor plate and trigger guard matches one or the other or both. I think that in early Polish K98s, the Poles were still using some Imperial German manufactured parts probably from the Danzig factory which Poland received as war repatriations. I can see a eagle like stamp on the bolt take down washer that doesn't look like a Polish eagle but may be an Imperial eagle - I will have to do more research. Sorry no photos at this time.

    The right buttstock of my K98 has a faint Polish Eagle over a shield with a 'K' inside the shield - anyone know what that represents? Thanks.

    As to whether these are Polish Home Army weapons - it could be possible I suppose, but I don't know how you would determine that. Its possible that the Soviets or Communist Polish Peoples government captured stocks of the 2nd Polish Republic's weapons and sold them on the world markets but this is just speculation on my part. Its also possible that these K98s accompanied escaping Polish soldiers at the end of the 1939 German/Soviet invasion of Poland. Some Polish Army units crossed the borders into Rumania and Hungary in formation with their weapons and vehicles as there was a general order to regroup and counterattack. Maybe even German or Russian captured but not refurbished or restamped? (I do have a German captured Polish Wz. 29 but it is definitely Wehrmacht marked.)

    BTW how much did you pay for your K98s if you don't mind me asking?
    Last edited by dastier; 09-24-2011 at 03:02 PM.
    "Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love." Lao Tzu

  7. #7
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    Still interesting. I didn't believe there is a way to tell if it was or not just thought I would ask if there would have been some distinguishing mark to let me know what the history was. I guess I'll have to leave that one to my imagination for now. The rifle that was in the above pictures was 250. The other we purchased was 350. I haven't put the pictures of that rifle up. The outside condition is similar but the bore is in a better state.

  8. #8
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    The Polish version of the German Kar98a was marked K98 on the side rail from 1925 to 1930. That has nothing to do with the German rifle some people call a K98 which is actually a K98k. It also has nothing to do with the Yugo M48 which some people call a Yugo K98. And it has nothing to do with an Israeli FN1950 "K98k style" rifle which some people call an Israeli K98. Nor does it have anything to do with the original German Kar98 carbine.

    The only true K98 rifle is Polish, like yours.

    There is a good possibility that your two rifles were captured and used by Germany. What happened to the Polish Mausers captured by the Soviets is unknown.

    Overpaid? No. Way underpaid, lucky you.
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  9. #9
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    This is just my own opinion, as there's no way to substantiate the facts, but I suspect that most of the Polish Mausers in the U.S. that were brought back from WWII were liberated from the Germans, who captured them from the Poles in 1939. I just don't see any other way that American GIs could get them, considering they never set foot in Poland. Another reasonable explanation would be to find proof that Poland sold its surplus Mausers to the U.S. after the war like many European countries did. This doesn't sound likely though considering the company that Poland was keeping at the time.

    The Armia Krajowa used anything it could get its hands on. The only small arms that can definitely be traced back to AK use are the weapons that the AK itself manufactured, such as the Błyskawica or Kis model submachine guns. Save for the occasional stock carving by individual soldiers, the AK didn't put any acceptance stamps on its weapons, such as the wz.29 or captured K98k rifles.

    The PWB Radom plant was renamed to Fabryka Broni in April 1927. So you probably have one of the last PWB stamped rifles. You did good.
    "Protocol, Geritol, and Alcohol..."

  10. #10
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    Cartoonists do you know what is the meaning of the P.W.B. initials? Can you recommend any sites or books on Polish mausers? I am aware of these two:

    http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/foreign/h...dkri/index.htm
    http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/polarms.html
    "Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love." Lao Tzu

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dastier View Post
    Cartoonists do you know what is the meaning of the P.W.B. initials? Can you recommend any sites or books on Polish mausers?[/URL]
    Sure, PWB Radom means Państwowa Wytwórnia Broni Radom, which translates to the Radom State Weapons Factory. The factory's still known as FB Radom (it's owned now by the Bumar Group) and recently posted an English language history of itself on the web:
    http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=133
    "Protocol, Geritol, and Alcohol..."

  12. #12
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    Default Afrika Korps used some Polish Mausers.

    Quote Originally Posted by cartoonist View Post
    I suspect that most of the Polish Mausers in the U.S. that were brought back from WWII were liberated from the Germans, who captured them from the Poles in 1939.
    Roy Dunlap, the gunsmith and target shooter who served in Ordnance with the British Eigth Army in 1942-43 in North Africa, said the Africa Korps had Mausers of Polish, Czech and Belgian manufacture in use in addition to German made weapons. Also the G98/40. (Ordnance Went Up Front, Samworth-1948, R&R books-1993). They must have been spread all over both Western and Eastern Europe by 1944. I have handled one RC which was based on a Polish wz. 29.

  13. #13
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    There are photos of US Ordnance troops checking Stacks of Rifles in (Western) Germany, 1945, and it is obvious that mixed in with the Kar98k rifles, there are Polish K98 and Wz29 rifles.

    These Polish rifles not "Refurbed" by Steyr (660) into G98/40 for the Luftwaffe were issued as is to other Wehrmacht units, usually Engineers etc ( special non-infantry Units).

    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

  14. #14
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    The strong odds are that those two carbines were imported by Interarms in the 1960s from Spain, where they had been sent to the Republicans for the Spanish civil war. Some of the Polish guns had "scrubbed" receivers, but many others did not. Many years ago I picked three with eagles out of the crates.

    M

  15. #15
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    Glad to hear I got a good deal. I have routinely seen rifles of only slightly better quality sometimes go quite a bit higher at the auctions in my area. The price coupled with the fact that we have both Polish and German ancestry (50/50) made these two ideal for our collections. I appreciate all the great information you all have supplied. The history behind these rifles has been fascinating. Any one know where I can get some more information about the markings I find? Or the history and markings of any of the WWII rifles for that matter? I must say that these were a blast to shoot yesterday. Either I was having a great shooting day or the K98 is much more accurate than any of my other rifles. Can't wait to compare it to its American counterparts.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartoonist View Post
    Sure, PWB Radom means Państwowa Wytwórnia Broni Radom, which translates to the Radom State Weapons Factory. The factory's still known as FB Radom (it's owned now by the Bumar Group) and recently posted an English language history of itself on the web:
    http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=133
    Thanks for the translation and the link.
    "Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love." Lao Tzu

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