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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    2,947

    Default

    Award,

    For your education: "bcd", i.e. Gustloff, continued to use milled parts on thier rifles until the very end. The reason? The factories that produced these parts worked for cheap, using forced labor. This "free labor" produced milled parts from existing stocks of forgings and new forgings. The cost to convert production over to stamped components was probably not viable, so it was cheaper for them to continue making them. These are not leftovers either- they are produced in late44-45. If you notice (the picture I posted here) the trigger guard lacks the locking screw, a late feature (gun is bcd45 14065, one of the last)

    On the bolt shroud, the line you see is poor manufacture- if you notice, the gas shield is rough forged and unfinished, typical for bcd's in this serial range. A healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing in this hobby, especially when it comes to snipers, but if you are unsure of yourself, make clear that you aren't (I know you attempted that, but it didn't come across well enough).
    Karabiner98k Volume 1 now ready! This book covers the K98k rifle up to 1938! www.thirdpartypress.com
    Visit my site - www.latewar.com
    Check out the forum dedicated to the next volumes about the Kar98k rifle www.k98kforum.com

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    8,314

    Default

    ....and this is why the K98k forum is open and not a bully pulpit for a few. We all err. The most important thing is not any one ego or "guru status", but the accuracy of the information. I'd rather the unhappy truth than have someone happily pissing on my back telling me it's raining. Award, even though your position was flawed it caused a discussion that imparted good information. None of us is immune from correction and I welcome it.
    Last edited by Hambone; 01-24-2008 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    16,261

    Default

    Award,
    The infraction was not a product of the moderators here who are top notch. It came from me not for your postings but for language. Thats all. Nothing was deleted and rarely is. What was given was not even an infraction but rather a warning.
    Owner/Administrator of Gunboards.com
    Mosin Nagant.net
    Michigan Historical Collectables

    "Tulta munille!"

    "Terror is not a new weapon. Throughout history it has been used by those who could not prevail, either by persuasion or example. But inevitably they fail, either because men are not afraid to die for a life worth living, or because the terrorists themselves came to realize that free men cannot be frightened by threats, and that aggression would meet its own response. And it is in the light of that history that every nation today should know, be he friend or foe, that the United States has both the will and the weapons to join free men in standing up to their responsibilities."
    John F. Kennedy

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Soverign State of Mississippi
    Posts
    64

    Default bcd 4 LSR

    It looks totally real to me with exception of the re finished stock I've compaired it to my bcd 4 LSR and it's close, right down to the milled floorplate and "1"

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,395

    Post

    K98 sniper authentication sure riles up people but with so many rifles being faked I can understand the skeptisism.
    What has our country become? More takers than givers.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Wow, after reading this thread, the tone is sure rough. I have once gone through the grinder here too for something I thought was 'the real deal', and it was a bit over the top - like this is. I think the man who posted the initial question was completely legit. These forums are for questions and answers, good ones and silly ones, why not keep it sober? I, by far, am not an expert on Mausers, but saying a K98 sniper rifle can't be 'real' simply because it has been taken apart, is pure speculation. People do all kinds of things, and certainly over the course of almost sixty years. I would think a rifle that is not in perfect condition would be more real than one that was (except for the stock).
    I'm a purist when it comes to gun collecting and steer clear of anything altered, but there's a fear here for 'Bubba' that slams the newbies hard. Everyone has to learn and a lot of it is an acquired taste for the battle-hardened look, and to appreciate its history. I think the loathing of both posters of such items and the item could be turned down a notch. There's not much of a, "I'm sorry to tell you that this or this is not correct," but more of a, "This is garbage," and it's too bad.

    HL

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    in a house
    Posts
    3,451

    Default

    Hence the saying, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". The nastiest remarks usually come from a noob who has accumulated just enogh expertise to start offering opinions. As for the rifle in question, it may be a little abused, but not a fraud.

  8. #53

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by two_larsens View Post
    Wow, after reading this thread, the tone is sure rough.
    Well Pilgrim, I like John Wayne Toilet Paper, it's Rough, Tough and Doesn't take Sh/t from anybody! And this is, without a doubt, the Best Forum and Moderators out there, along with GK. In the mean time, and in between time, get out the Preparation H !

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    71

    Default

    I don't have any Preperation H, Pilgrim. I suggest you get your own.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,259

    Default

    Look its for sale on a wts thread...10 G's
    Last edited by mauser202; 03-18-2008 at 09:06 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #56

    Default

    Alright guys.. lets not get wound up again..
    This forum brought out a wealth of knowledge and information regarding my rifle that would be nearly impossible for the amateur (Me) to gather in years of research. I want to give everybody a big THANK YOU! for your comments, yes.. even the bad ones, because they drew in the real heavy hitters to clarify incorrect information that was offered.
    I linked the sale of my rifle to this thread because of the quality of the information that was given here. I think that says something for Gunboards, they have every right to be proud of the folks that give their time here.

    The rifle currently has a buyer, thanks to everyone for your help.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Rural Bluegrass
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 007alex View Post
    Okay here we go... here comes the revolutionary, the one and only 007alex , bla blah blah blah balha balha blah ...... ad nauseum.
    The End.


    Alex =)

    You forget some meds or something ?.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    71

    Default

    It doesn't sound like the healing has begun... I have to say 'purists' are not any sicker than those who hack up authentic, antique firearms. People can do what they want. It all depends on how one looks at it. The hack jobs can often turn into interesting restoration projects for the one who is crafty, if nothing else, but they are generally rather sad and the value will truly be in the eyes of the beholder.

    HL

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    71

    Default

    007ALEX, What I am saying is: everything in moderation - purists and those who are not. The reason I think a modified rifle is sad is that it can't go back to what it was. It only works one way, and they're not making anymore from that era, obviously. I understand there are some who likes to scope and change old rifles, and so be it - it can't be helped. One can say it's like stepping on a bug - there are millions and trillions of them - it doesn't matter, but it mattered to the bug

    HL

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Rural Bluegrass
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 007alex View Post
    Okay, be that way. In the light of truth, ... and I am don't know jack **** about anything... I am insane call me whatever you want... I just discredited myself, so you don't' have to do it, every time I want to leave a post... Okay. :'(

    Alex
    You see you hang yourself. You treat this hobby and this forum like a blog.... a blog of incoherant ranting. Reminds me alot of the armchair commandos in any hobby that get a taste and run with the ball like they know it all , then just have a fountian of dysentery of posts of frothing nothingness.
    Some fellas are just better off keeping to themselves UNITL they read up enough on the subject to partake in an intelligent manner. That's just my opinion , but If I wanted to read drivel I'd go to some political or social bunk blog , not a site dedicated to collectors and historians , albeit most of use are ametures in that realm.

  16. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    MarySUKILand
    Posts
    964

    Default

    [QUOTE=007alex;266249]Of course, HL. But the purists are mad about it and those who hack the rifles up are not. They're just doing what they are supposed to do. they are part of the dynamics. They're not mad at everyone. they're not try to keep things static... These things weren't made and sat somewhere... they were used by people and traveled long distances... We should be glad they are here and not sad.
    QUOTE]


    007alex..... I for one understand and agree with your opine on this collecting issue....
    What you have said warrants mentioning now and then.... and don't forget the part about reminding people that high/low posting counts do not necessarily equal knowledge amount...

    This k98 forum has been really humming lately....

    Well...blah blah blah...thats all I got this time.....:D
    -
    well....thats my 2 cents... not worth as much as a "real" collector's nickel... but they are shiny...

    "I know...You take a chance getting up in the morning... Crossing the street... or Sticking your face in a fan..." (Frank Drebin, Police Squad)

  17. #62

    Default

    Did it Sell? It would look good in my Country Bunker.

  18. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    5,830

    Default

    What did it go for?
    Quit Stalin, buy a mosin!
    www.themosincrate.com


    Collector of neglected G/K43 Rifles

  19. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    644

    Default Real LSR Maybe

    The rifle is a rare example of a enlarged receiver K98k that cannot be faked for that reason. Though I have seen enlarged receiver K98k rifles for sale that did not have scopes put on them. I guess the Germans manufactured them to snipe then did not have the resources to complete the LSR sniper project and then just issued the rifle for service or stored them until GI's liberated an incomplete LSR sniper.

    This example has a scope set installed that has missing parts. It also has missing pins and screws from the base. That really doesn't make sense. Why would someone take a completed K98k sniper and take parts from the scope rig and base? Yeah, Bubba would poly. a stock set, but he would not break the scope set. Unless he got an enlarged receiver K98k that was not sniped and then had to hunt down the correct scope and base set to install himself and could only find a scope set and base that was incomplete or damaged. This is all conjecture on my part, but I would not pay big dollars for this particular example. Too many questions with no explanation. I am sure though because it is an enlarged receiver bcd 4 with some missing scope and base parts and a stock set in need of restoration he can get someone to pay him $6000.00 at least for this rifle. It sounds like he found a buyer already. I am also sure that some of the non-sniped enlarged receiver K98k rifles I have seen for sale now sport a reproduction LSR scope rig.
    Last edited by anttom; 12-20-2008 at 10:45 AM.

  20. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    725

    Default

    I have seen several k98 CE rifles were teh thick wall has been faked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all you need is a welder and a milling machine. there have been 2 posted in the last 2 years.


    later
    vaughn

  21. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anttom View Post
    The rifle is a rare example of a enlarged receiver K98k that cannot be faked for that reason. Though I have seen enlarged receiver K98k rifles for sale that did not have scopes put on them. I guess the Germans manufactured them to snipe then did not have the resources to complete the LSR sniper project and then just issued the rifle for service or stored them until GI's liberated an incomplete LSR sniper.

    This example has a scope set installed that has missing parts. It also has missing pins and screws from the base. That really doesn't make sense. Why would someone take a completed K98k sniper and take parts from the scope rig and base? Yeah, Bubba would poly. a stock set, but he would not break the scope set. Unless he got an enlarged receiver K98k that was not sniped and then had to hunt down the correct scope and base set to install himself and could only find a scope set and base that was incomplete or damaged. This is all conjecture on my part, but I would not pay big dollars for this particular example. Too many questions with no explanation. I am sure though because it is an enlarged receiver bcd 4 with some missing scope and base parts and a stock set in need of restoration he can get someone to pay him $6000.00 at least for this rifle. It sounds like he found a buyer already. I am also sure that some of the non-sniped enlarged receiver K98k rifles I have seen for sale now sport a reproduction LSR scope rig.
    I ran into a gent that has one of these bcd receivers, and has been unable to find a scope mount that will fit. Perhaps they are different from standard sidemounts?

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