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  1. #1
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    Dec 1969
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    Default Steyr Model 1912 Mausers Original vs Conv.?

    Are the only differences in the original long rifles and the conversions (as far as the Chilean models are concerned): caliber, blueing of the receiver, and the 7.62 stamp? Is there much difference in collectibility or scarcity between these? What about between Chilean, Colombian, and Mexican 1912 models? I have the 3rd ed of Ball's book, but there is no production info on these. Gun show this past week a guy had a long rifle. I'm sure it was an original Chilean 1912 long rifle and he was firm at $400. It was in pretty good shape, better than I have found online. Regards,

    -Mac

  2. #2
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    Dec 1969
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    I think I see what you mean Alex.

    So probably more than maybe ~20,000 but < 14,000,000. Thats kind of what I expected. I also nominate you to start a serial number survey, that is if a serial list does not already exist as you are much more versed on the subject than I, .

    After thinking it over and kicking myself a few times after the fact he had left the show by then. I thought it was worth less. Wish I had it now, but had a Werndl on my mind. Thats what I get for not keeping with the motto "buy first ask questions later". O well not the first time I have kicked myself for passing on a deal. Regards,

    -Mac
    Last edited by IrishArms; 01-22-2008 at 12:45 AM.

  3. #3
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    Dec 1969
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    California
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    The Styer M1912 long rifles are nicely built, but IMHO the $400 price tag seems high. I bought a VG one in November last year for $150, and I am in Southern California, the barren land of C&R milsurp. These rifles are not uncommon. But I'll say that the 7x57 models are excellent shooters.




  4. #4
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    Dec 1969
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    945

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    The 7.62-NATO conversions of the Chilean 1912 long and short rifles are worth considerably less than the ones that are still in their original 7X57 chambering.

    $400 for an all-original, VG+ to Exc, all-matching, 1912 Chilean long-rifle, is not unreasonable at all in today's market. Here in the USA, the Chilean 1912's (in their original chambering)are not nearly as abundant as the more common Argentine 1909's. An all-original, VG+ to Exc, all-matching, 1909 Argentine long-rifle would easily bring $400 ~ $500 today, and are easier to find than original 1912 Chileno's.

    Mine has a mis-matched bolt, and I gave about $300 for it about four years ago. I would not part with it for an offer of $400 today.




















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  5. #5
    John Wall's Avatar
    John Wall is online now Diamond Member with Oak Leaves and Swords
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    Alex is correct, the Chilean M1912 is the most common of the rifles. $400 for an NRA excellent (100% original 98% comdition) is bargain and a half.

    Tens of thousands of Mexican and Columbian M1912's were made, but few were delivered because the start of WW I in 1914 interrupted international shipping and trade. Eventually, the Mexican and Columbian M1912 long reifles and carbines were purchased into Austro-Hungarian Army services and served well thoughout the war in their original 7x57mm caliber. Most were acquired by Yugoslavia after the war. Then, in a tragic example of state-sponsored Bubbalism, all were converted to 7.9 mm short rifles and re-nomenclatured the "M.1924b". In many years of collecting in the US, I have personally seen only two decent Mexican M.1912's and never a Columbian. Both Mexican rifles had seen Austro-Hungarian Army service and featured the large Steyr M.1895 straight pull rifle's lower sling swivel. One was clearly unit marked to an Austro-Hungarian Landsturm battalion. Mexican receivers in A/H service tend to be blued...based on very few examples reported. Late manufactured M1912's have no crest on the receivers, instead, as does an example at the US Ordnance Museum in Maryland, they have a simple "1914" date in the top middle of the receiver ring.

    If you even see one, grab it and don't let go!
    Regards,
    John

    PS: No need for a serial number survey. All Steyr rifles, Mauser, Mannlicher and earlier, are published in two stickies in the Gunboards Steyr-Mannlicher Forum. You'll find them listed by year, model and production quantities.
    Last edited by John Wall; 01-22-2008 at 08:13 AM.

  6. #6
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    Dec 1969
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    1,813

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    Footdoc and Beanstrung, those are some fantastic looking rifles. The Chilean 1912 is definitely on my wish list...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    163

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    According to the sticky on the Mannlicher forum, all 43,107 Chilean model 1912 were manufactured during 1912-1913. I assume this number includes both the 1912 long and short rifles? I wonder what the number of short rifles manufactured would be compared to long ones?
    Ken
    "One can live without candy, but one cannot live without bullets."
    Kim Jong Il

  8. #8
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    Dec 1969
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    Arizona
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    How are the barrels marked? Ever have one out of the stock? Any Steyr logo's or company markings?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    If you even see one, grab it and don't let go!
    Regards,
    John

    PS: No need for a serial number survey. All Steyr rifles, Mauser, Mannlicher and earlier, are published in two stickies in the Gunboards Steyr-Mannlicher Forum. You'll find them listed by year, model and production quantities.

  9. #9
    John Wall's Avatar
    John Wall is online now Diamond Member with Oak Leaves and Swords
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    Hi Paul,
    Yes, I have had mine apart several times. Nothing special or unexpected turned up. The Steyr Austria address is on the side rail, but no special text on or under the barrel. The markings are totally Mexican, except for instances where unit marks are found on the unit marking disc or buttplate.
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 01-23-2008 at 09:55 PM.

  10. #10
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    Dec 1969
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    Northern California
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    I agree that in today's market a nice Chilean M12 in 7x57 is worth around $ 400.00. In 7.62 NATO I would say $300.00 - $350.00

    Don't often see either for sale in my area (Northern California).

    They are IMHO the equal to the Argentine 1909 in quality, fit and finish.

    I have one in 7.62 NATO - Bought it from Big 5 in the early 90's for $ 149.95 - Wouldn't sell it now for $ 400.00 either - Shoots great and is a beautiful rifle.

    Tiledude

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    150

    Default Steyr M1912

    I've played with these Steyr's off and on for the last 10-12 years, and found them to be high quality rifles, even the 7.62mm NATO conversions, but the 7x57mm remains my fav. If you run across a beat up one at a good price, go ahead and pick it up too. Will make a fine basis for a Mauser sporter. The only one remaining in my current collection is a .30-30 WCF conversion of a beat up 1912 which still functions well (as can be expected), but it was a very low serial number A series, so what the heck. Be the only person on your block with a .30-30 Mauser!

  12. #12
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    I have to disagree with the statement that the quality on the 1912s matches the 1909 Argentines. My 1912 is very nicely manufactured, but does not match the final finish of its German competition. Specifically, the markings are not as deeply struck and the bluing(where appropriate) is not as richly colored.

    For reference, I'm comparing a low-excellent matching Chilean to two 1909 DWM Argentines sitting in the house. For what it's worth, I also think the 1908 Brazilians seem to better finished than the Argentines.

    All that said, I've handled but a few Chileans and not more than 20 excellent/unissued 1909s. YMMV!

    Regards,
    Chris

  13. #13
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007alex View Post
    I am sure, if they are in one piece and matching and untouched by Bubba, then they should all be good.


    Alex
    Definitely. They are all good. Only trying to say you can see a difference in the final finish. I would expect that each country specified a certain level of polish and care in their purchase contract. Not trying to say Steyr couldn't do the same level of finish if paid for it.

    Any of these old mausers can still compare favorably to current production sporting guns.

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