Can anyone help me with some .310 cadet ammo.I have no time or patience to reload I just want to buy It and shoot it.
Todd SYDNEY NSW
Can anyone help me with some .310 cadet ammo.I have no time or patience to reload I just want to buy It and shoot it.
Todd SYDNEY NSW
Ironbark (in central Victoria) used to advertise 310 in the back section of the SSAA journal - ph 0408 148 363 or fax 03 5439 5547. I haven't tried the numbers but the old website http://users.netcon.net.au/~ironammo/ doesn't come up. The old email address was email@example.com
It's pricey stuff at over $120/100 (so I reload. Cast factory bullets are very cheap!)
Accept my advice mate. Reloading is the only way to go.
Get yourself a double cavity .310 mould from:
CAST BULLET ENGINEERING
P.O. BOX 269 MENAI CENTRAL
FAX or PHONE ORDERS 02 9532 0103
CBE make an excellent mould that casts bullets that are perfect for the .310 and near enough to the originals not to matter. They will give you very accurate shooting to 300 yards and will put you on the target right out to 600 yards. I used them at Pickering Brook about 12 months ago and scored 3 V-bulls at 300 yards. The V-bull is a 3.3 inch circle inside the 5.5 inch bull.
Reload with either 6 grains of AP100 or 3.5 grains of Red Dot. That will give you a mv of around 1150fps with very mild recoil and easy extraction.
That's about 1500 rounds out of a AU$35.00 0.5Kg can of powder. With the cost of primers it works out to be half the cost of a .22 rimfire round, and much more satisfying too!
You can get decent Lee .310 dies and shell holder from:
2/159 Penhurst St
Beverly Hills NSW 2209
Ph 02 9570 4794 Fax 02 9570 3162
The Australian-made Super brand factory ammunition (using Bertram cases) went out of production in 2006. There is one gunsmith in Perth (Roy Alexander and Sons in Maylands) who still seems to have a bottomless case of .310 ammo. He always has at least 20 boxes on his display shelf, but at AU$22 for a 20 round box they are a bit pricey! That is another reason reloading is such a good idea.
I did manage to buy 50 of the 20 round boxes a couple of years back and they are stored away in a safe place. Now that was a find.
Having left my wife in the car I walked into a Western Australian country town gunshop and asked my usual question:
Me: "Have you got any 310 Cadet rounds mate?"
Gunshop owner: "Yep, out the back."
Me: "How much a box?"
GSO: "Dunno, they used to be $5 a box. Haven't sold any for a long time. Everybody around here has rebarreled them to .357 Magnum, .22 Hornet or 32-20."
Me: "So how much are they now?"
GSO: "Still $5 a box I guess."
Me: "How many boxes have you got?"
GSO: (Counts from the back) "Ah, 48, 49, ah 50 boxes mate."
Me, with poker face: "Well, if they're not selling mate I may as well take them off your hands. $250 cash ok?"
GSO: "Yeah. There is also this old 50 round box of Super cartridges. You want them too for $10?"
Me: "Yeah, ok but I'll have to use the card 'cause I've only got $250 in cash."
GSO: "Bugger it, just take 'em, no charge. Glad to be rid of 'em. I still haven't worked out how to use that bloody electronic machine thingy anyway."
When I left we were both smiling.
Of course my wife was indignant at me "wasting" the money. My answer was "When did you last see these for sale in K-Mart?"
One thousand and fifty rounds for $250. I am still reloading those extra 50 "old" cases.
Couldn't agree more that reloading is the way to go for the 310. I rarely see the Super ammo any more and when I do it's a dollar a round or more. Plenty of good loading information over on the Martini forum, but I do admit it's a tricky round to size and get to chamber easily.
Sure reloading is cheaper ! But is it cost affective ?
Its not like I am going to shoot hundreds of rounds at a time. So buy the time I buy all the reloading gear and sit down and study power factors and projectile grains etc. It will take me years before I start seeing the savings. 100 rounds will last me a year.cheaper per round? yes .Cost affective ? No
But thanks for the great story Camsfirie .
The key to obtaining easily chambered rounds it to use the correct heeled bullet.
The .310 Cadet bullet is a heeled bullet like the .22 rimfire round. The exterior dimension of the bullet is the same as the exterior dimension of the case. Therefore the "heel" of the bullet must be smaller than the bullet diameter so that it slips inside the case without causing the case to bulge and therefore being hard or imposible to chamber.
The nominal diameter of the .310 Cadet round is .320" to .323". The heel must be .310" to fit inside the case. Lee make a bullet mould for the .310 Cadet but I have found that the bullet diameter is too small for the bore and the heel is slightly too small for the case.
That is why I recommend the Cast Bullet Engineering 120 grain mould because it casts bullets to the correct diameters.
The photos below show left to right:
CBE bullet .323" diameter; CBE bullet heel .310" diameter; Lee cast bullet .317" diameter; Lee cast bullet heel .309" diameter; comparison of the Lee bullet on the left and the CBE bullet on the right. The bullets have been lubricated with Lee Liquid Alox.
I can only agree - the CBE mould produces very good bullets, and the combination makes for a delightfully accurate rifle. And when you reload, you will find that you will be shotoing more than those 100 rounds.
It truly is an excellent all-round cartrudge - it can serve as a gallery round, but at the same time will perform extremely well at 200 yds and even further out, makse for both a good offhand and prone rifle. I do like my cadet...
I can understand your reluctance to go the reloading route Todd303. There is a set up cost of around $200 to 300 and that is not to be dismissed.
However, as I said factory production of the .310 Cadet round stopped in 2006. There will be no more made. Once your local gunshop sells their last box that is it. And you can bet that as the existing stock of factory rounds gets lower you will see that $22/20 rounds was "cheap".
So if you want to only shoot your Cadet for a year or two until the ammo runs out then put it in your gun safe as a collectible that is fine and your choice to make.
But if you want to shoot your Cadet for years down the track the only way to go is by reloading. And the more rounds you reload the cheaper is the overall cost.
Reloading the .310 Cadet round is not hard to do.
If you don't want to cast your own bullets correct 122 grain RNFP .323" dia .310" dia heel bullets coated in blue teflon can be obtained from:
Hawkesbury River Bullet Company
44 Flora St, Kirrawee, NSW 2232
ph: (02) 9833 1453
The powder loads are already researched and proven: 6g ADI AP100, 3.5g Alliant Red Dot, 3g Alliant Unique. You don't even need a scale. A cheap Lee powder measure kit and an autoprime tool are all you need besides the dies.
CBE projectile showing how the heeled base works. Samples of Hawkesbury River .310 Cadet bullets. The 128 grain bullet is not suitable as it doesn't chamber. The 122 grain bullet works in the same manner as the CBE projectile and chambers easily.
Reloading the 310 cadet can be very cheap, actually - here's how I do it:
1. clean and decap fired case - you need a decapping pin and a hammer, maybe a shellholder
2. prime - something like a Lee Auto prime is cheap and will do it fast
3. Charge powder - either a cheap powder measure (Like the Lee perfect), or the Lee dipper set.
4. seat a tumble-lubed bullet (requires a plastic container and a bottle of liquid alox) in the case - normally, the stickyness of the lube and the friction should hold the bullet in (works on my rifle).
5. Load and fire
6. Restart from 1
All of this would probably represent a cash outlay of less than 100,- (probably less than 50), and bullets are easier to find than cartridges...
Accurate? I ended 3rd at 200yds last Imperial with ammo loaded this way...
Camsfirie, Gert 10, this is all good info. I'll be on the hunt for some cases and try and set myself up with some reloading asap. Any idea where in Australia would be a good place to shop for cases for the .310?
Western Firearms have new .310 Cadet brass for $15 for a pack of 20. That's $75/100.
Western Firearms is aka Die-A-Rama and the address is a couple of posts above.
.310 Cadet Simplex 7/8" dies:
Austen Bourke in Dubbo makes .310 Ammo. He is on the Mitchell Highway Dubbo and his number is 02 68820879.
and +1 on the good advice to reload. It's worth it for the fun to cheaply shoot these very accurate little rifles. The trigger on mine puts all my Enfield's to shame!
I use old Super brass and the 128 gr Hawksbury - it chambers fine when a taper crimp is used to fix the heel diameter/case mouth wall thickness problem. My Super brass sizes to 0.328" external in Simplex 5/8" dies, but the internal is 0.308", too small for the 0.310" heel without making a bulge which stops the rounds chambering. My solutiion is to taper crimp the heel area. I have tried advice to delete sizing the case, just flare and reseat the bullet, but it doesn't suit my rifle's chamber. I have struck the same problem with these projectiles in Bertam brass, which is probably what Western have for sale.
A peculiar problem I have with the Simplex dies is the upper diameter of the seat dies is smaller than the 0.322" OD of the 128 RN bullets. Bullets lightly stick in the die if it is wound down on the cartridge being seated, and the bullet comes out reduced in size by 1/2 a thou. The finished rounds are very accurate in my rifle and when I slugged one throught the bore it gave very good fit into the grooves.
Last edited by swedeM63; 07-17-2008 at 09:46 PM. Reason: typos
I first started shooting my couple of Cadets back in the early 70s, using the Schuetzen method...small number of cases, decapping pin, loading block, Pirmer seater (Lee-Loader straightline style) and a supply of lubed, Oversize M1 carbine bullets ( I had a rather overcut Lyman set of Blocks, for 130 grain "M1 carbine" style bullets...cast a .316 bullet.
I could either hand seat the bullets into the case (unsized) or using a Push stick, seat the bullet in the throat, and artillery style, push a wadded case with powder into the chamber, and close. (This is the Germanic "Schuetzen style" of shooting, with "separate charge" loads.). In theory, using this method, one can use only ONE cartridge case, and shoot all day, as long as Powder, Primers and Bullets last.... I usually had between 20 and 50 .310 cases available ( original Super Cartridge Co. brass (NOT Bertrams) as Super was still making back in the 1960s and 70s, and Bruce Bertam was still a Youngster..
Using CBE these days is the way to go, with the correct heeled Bullet. BTW, Riverbrand used to make .316 Jacketed Soft Points for the .310 Cadet back in the 60s and 70s;
These are correct diameter for a Jacketed Bullet in the Cadet's barrel...the Cadet was originally a Black Powder Cartridge type gun, and so the realtionship between Bore, grooves and Bullet diameter was based on Black Powder converntions. With Jacketed Bullets for the Cadets (Introduced during WW II (FMJ) the increased friction made the use of "Under-groove-diameter" bullets essential, using the "Base Upset Obturation principle" common to the older Smokeless rifles using a Long and cylindrical projectile with a Jacket ( See Austrian, French, Siamese and Kommission and Kropatschek Rifles...all used the "Land riding " rather than "Groove filling" Projectile diameters.) Groove-Filling Bullet diameters are a Post-1903-5 phenomenon, with small contact area Spire Point and BT Jacketed Bullets. (The "Spitzgeschoss" design).
So if you are keen enough, it would be possible to get "half cup" Bullet swaging dies made to form up .316 diameter 120 grain projectiles (a Corbin "Mighty-Mite" press and dies) from pre-drawn cups and lead slugs, just as some shooters make JSPs in both 32 (.312 diameter) and .38(.358)diameters. In fact, a .32 (.312) die set just needs to be Polished(Honed) out to .316 to suit , and the jackets can be "32 cal" (.312) used as well; Bullet making is based on "Up-swaging" the lead into a jacket, so that the jacket stretches and then tightens over the lead. (Copper is springy, lead is "dead")
Next, I have to get my 297/230 QG Francotte Martini going with home-made cases ( I shoot original (Belgian made) BP cartridges, but can't get the odd-sized Berdan Primer to reload them...so I have made cases ( 297/230 Long) from .22 Hornet...the thick neck allows the use of .22 RF Heeled Lead Bullets...a friend in NSW makes these ( as well as Jacketed .22 from spent RF cases).
Regards, and good shooting,
I know of some up here in queensland at a dealer if you are interested. I have seen it fired and was not very impressed with it. A bit too light for my liking. Just thought I would let you know
I recently picked up a 310 cadet rifle witha very nice bore and had to replace the custom Mahogany butt and forestock with originals, barrel marked 32-20 and bore measured .3235.
My barrel is stamped 32-20 and my chamber measures .359" at base and .344" at trimmed 1.060 length.
I looked at various bullets and bullet molds and decided on:
1. Is a total copper plated lead bullet from Buffalo Arms for the 8mm Lebel pistol, ($.10 each) weighting 100 grains and has a .330 diameter, .546 long, and .245 long bearing surface. I resize this thru a standard 8mm (.323) lee sizer/luber sizer kit ($25.00) or you can have Lee make a custom sized sizer die to fit your bore for $30.00
2. Is a 152 grain cast bullet made from a Lee two cavity .329 diameter 205 grain weight gas check bullet mold (C329-205-1R) for $35.00
I shortened this mold .300 and it cast a 151 grain (1/30) bullet .797 long with a .320 diameter nose/bore riding diameter and a .242 long bearing surface I resized to .324 diameter that I am driving at 1250 FPS with 8 grains of A2400
I Lee Liquid Alox pan lube # 2 and it shows the most promise for longer range shooting accuracy and no keyholing.
For dies I forgoed the standard 32-20 dies as it sizes undersize ans settled on 32 ACP dies
I run a 8mm Mauser die expander ball down to bottom of case and expand base and decap primer, I then size 1/4" length of the case mouth with a 32 ACP die
and then seat .324 Dia bullets with the 32 ACP seater die without crimp.
100 grain total copper plated bullet has an overall length of 1.345", Diameter over loaded case neck is .341 with a chamber diameter of .343
150 grain bullet overall length measures 1.620"", Diameter over loaded case neck is also .341 with a chamber diameter of .343
I tried the 120 grain heeled bullet and did not have as good accuracy as with the 150 grain bullets (1" at 50 yards with two powders/loads tried, still experimenting with powders and charge weights).
You have to keep in mind that the chamber is a progressive cone then straight diameter (bullet throat relief) to rifling.
Chamber cast tells all, check dimensions to available dies and trim to length to suite non heeled bullet. trim to length to suite non heeled bullet.
Camsfirie, maybe you've got a typo there? Are you referring to the 122gr .316" projectile?
This is the data from their catalogue
.310 122gn Round Nose Flat Point-Cadet-FB .316" .316
.310 128gn Round Nose - "Cadet" Sized .323" .323
The powder loads you given, these measurements are grams, correct? (I'm not a reloader, but it appears I may soon be)
No, it's Grains not Grams.The powder loads you given, these measurements are grams, correct?
Reloading data is given in grains. It's a good thing you asked instead of assuming. Otherwise you'd be in a very dangerous overload situation by a 15.5:1 ratio. I don't know if 46.5 grains of Unique can be crammed into a 310 case but I surely wouldn't want to try.
OK thanks, that's why I asked. 'g' = grams; 'gr'= grains. All those measurements are given as grams, as written.
Yes they are. Hopefully now anyone else coming along to just glean data via search engine will continue to read this far. Begin with a light load using a .323 diameter cast heeled bullet in the Cadet.
The lesser diameters tend to skip along on the lands down the bore. I do use .314 lead pistol bullets on occasion but those are hollow based and obturation is what makes the bullet bite the rifling.
Brass for the 310 Cadet is easy to make from 32-20 Winchester cases. Just take a peice of 8mm rod (or an 8mm bolt with the head cut off). Put this in a battery drill and while spinning attack with emery cloth untill the 32-20 case is a neat fit over it.
Next hold the drill in a vice and spin the rod with case inserted and apply a hacksaw to trim the case to just over 27mm.
Now apply the same hacksaw sideways on the rim to reduce its thickness to 1mm.
Lastly, trim the case to 27.3mm.
This product is better than most comercially made 310 cases.
You think you got problems? I have a No1Mk3 chambered for that damm 297/230!
I think that can be loaded using #3 or #4 buckshot as a bullet....if you have the dies
I have 2 boxes of Kynoch .310 cadet 120 grain hollow point smokeless powder made for winfield arms corp.1 box is full (20 rds),the other box has 15 rds left.They are for sale if anyone is interested.In the United States only. I can't ship overseas,and it would probably be way to exspensive.
They are in good shape,no corrosion,a little tarnish on the brass.
In response to those who think ChuckMcD might be posting a for sale item in the wrong forum, he is just fine. When the Martini Forum was created Gunbaords allowed a waiver in the no WTS,WTB, WTT rule in that we are allowed to solict for Martini specific items. Todd303 opened this post looking for some .310 ammo, Chuck is simply replying to that request. The problem is Chuck is in the U.S and Todd is in Australia.
Thanks Chuck for trying to help.
Oh anyone who wants Chucks ammo might drop him an email or PM. Just click on his user name in the upper left corner of his post and click on the icon to communicate with him.
"And don't forget. That isn't your Martini you have. It belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone. Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it." Malcolm Cobb, The Martini Henry Note-book
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com