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Thread: HELP! Walther PP serial number range date

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    Default HELP! Walther PP serial number range date

    Greetings...

    I have a Walther PP for sale, and I have a guy who wants to buy it, but he won't buy it unless I can prove that it is war time. Pistols are not my strong point, so I need help dating this pistol. It is a standard PP, there are no markings on it except for the serial number and maker code. It has a rough war finish, and there is no Walther legend on the left side. The number is 389337 P, and directly below it is the AC maker code. I can find no prood marks anywhere on the gun.
    Any help that can be offered would be greatly welcomed.

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    Dieter Marshall is the man to contact. I don't have his email but I'm sure one of the members will be able to provide it.

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    Walther's with the "ac" code were produced ONLY during WWII from "about" 1942 to Spring 1945.

    Walther's produced before that had commercial markings and the city of manufacture was Zella-Mehlis.

    Walther's produced after the war are either marked as being made by Manurhin in France, or at Ulm, Germany.

    So, if it's got an "ac" code and no other marks on the slide.....It's genuine WWII.

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    Walther stopped using their commercial markings on the PP late in the war (late 1944 I've been told) and went to the 'ac' marking to help speed production, along with other short cuts along the way. As already stated, the 'ac' marking was not used at any other time other than during WW2 production by Walther.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonoda_otaku View Post
    Greetings...

    I have a Walther PP for sale, and I have a guy who wants to buy it, but he won't buy it unless I can prove that it is war time. Pistols are not my strong point, so I need help dating this pistol. It is a standard PP, there are no markings on it except for the serial number and maker code. It has a rough war finish, and there is no Walther legend on the left side. The number is 389337 P, and directly below it is the AC maker code. I can find no prood marks anywhere on the gun.
    Any help that can be offered would be greatly welcomed.
    Your PP was made in or prior to April 1945 according to Deiter Marschal's Walther Pistols. See the Bottom of the attached page(Page 16).

    Your Pistol should have on the left side behind trigger guard the Eagle over 359 military acceptance stamp and on the right side under the ejection point the eagle over N Proof Mark(See page 112).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Walther Production by SN at Zella-Mehlis.jpg   Walther Proofmarks Post WWII.jpg  
    Gary

    NRA Endowment Life Member

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    thats what I can't quite figure out, because there is no Eagle over N mark. What could this mean? I've had others, and they have had proofs, but this is the only one with out. Unusual...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonoda_otaku View Post
    thats what I can't quite figure out, because there is no Eagle over N mark. What could this mean? I've had others, and they have had proofs, but this is the only one with out. Unusual...
    At the War's Closing it is not surprising that some marks were omitted.

    Are there any markings on the frame above the trigger under the ejection port?
    Gary

    NRA Endowment Life Member

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    Default PP with strange serial number

    Quote Originally Posted by Radom1935 View Post
    At the War's Closing it is not surprising that some marks were omitted.

    Are there any markings on the frame above the trigger under the ejection port?
    Hello Gary, you seem to know about these things, so I'd like to ask you a question if you don't mind. PP's have typically six digits and a P. mine only has five numbers and a "A". 26XXXP. can't seem to find any links to manufacture dates, etc. can you help? steve

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    You can find production dates by serial number at the P38 forum. http://www.p38forum.com/ Look under wartime PP and PPK pistols.

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    It might be easier just to sell it to a more informed buyer. If the guy is to lazy to do his own research and has no idea what he is looking at he will probably come back complaining anyway. Just my thoughts on the subject.

    According to one book I've read, quite a few "AC" marked PP's were assembled at the end of the war from remaining parts. It would not be uncommon for one of them to lack a few acceptance stamps.
    Last edited by lonegunman; 07-22-2010 at 11:43 PM. Reason: typo

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    Here's the chart... 389337P was made in 1945
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SN_Walther_P38forum.jpg  
    I Swear On My Life, And My Love Of It, That I Will Never Live For The Sake Of Another Man, Nor Ask Another Man To Live For Mine. - John Galt

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    Default Walter PP with what looks to be horizantl "N" on right side of barrel

    Hello, i am new to Walther pistols and am buying one with what appears to be a horizontal "N" with something (crown?) to the right of it, made ca. 1938/39. What does N mean and the other character?

    Crow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Hello, i am new to Walther pistols and am buying one with what appears to be a horizontal "N" with something (crown?) to the right of it, made ca. 1938/39. What does N mean and the other character?

    Crow
    Crown over N stamp shows that the pistol was test fired using ammunition loaded with smokeless gunpowder. It is part of a system that Germany adopted in 1891.

    NAZI government changed the appearance of various marks. Crown over N became Eagle over N in 1941.

    If your PP has Crown over N, then it was made before 1941, otherwise it was made after 1941.

  14. #14

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    [QUOTE=lonegunman;1408581]It might be easier just to sell it to a more informed buyer. If the guy is to [sic] lazy to do his own research and has no idea what he is looking at he will probably come back complaining anyway...QUOTE]

    This is exactly what I thought. So the question is, how much tolerance do you have in dealing with jerks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ij70 View Post
    Crown over N stamp shows that the pistol was test fired using ammunition loaded with smokeless gunpowder. It is part of a system that Germany adopted in 1891.

    NAZI government changed the appearance of various marks. Crown over N became Eagle over N in 1941.

    If your PP has Crown over N, then it was made before 1941, otherwise it was made after 1941.
    Much obliged for your response. Any significance to the fact it was made before 1941 and that it has no other mark? What would be a fair price of a pistol of this vintage in 98% condition, in your estimation? I realize there is an element of subjectivity to this but you appear to be very knowledgeable about these pistols (about which i have admitted i know very little).

    What resources (internet and books) are out there that might help me improve my knowledge of these pistols since i am about to be the owner of one?

    Regards and many thanks again, Crow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Much obliged for your response. Any significance to the fact it was made before 1941 and that it has no other mark? What would be a fair price of a pistol of this vintage in 98% condition, in your estimation? I realize there is an element of subjectivity to this but you appear to be very knowledgeable about these pistols (about which i have admitted i know very little).

    What resources (internet and books) are out there that might help me improve my knowledge of these pistols since i am about to be the owner of one?

    Regards and many thanks again, Crow
    See this table to determine which year your pistol was made: http://forums.gunboards.com/attachme...7&d=1279868767

    It is important to realize that Walther made PP for a long time, since 1929. If all you have is just the regular Cown N mark, then most likely you have a pistol made for commercial sales. The next question is how it got to US.

    I know a little bit about Walther PP because I own three that were made after WW Two by Manuhrin, France under license from Walther. So I know basics, but not an expert.

    Your best bet is take some photographs and start your own thread. Maybe others will recognize something that you do not know is important.

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    Thanks again! i think you are right that it was destined for commercial sales; the next question is, what is its value. Do you have a preference of any of the books out there about the Walthers PP?

    Crow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Thanks again! i think you are right that it was destined for commercial sales; the next question is, what is its value. Do you have a preference of any of the books out there about the Walthers PP?

    Crow
    For the value, check Gunbroker, if you register, you can see closed auctions and see what prices were paid.

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    That is good advice. I will check the auctions.

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    I had previously asked about a pre-war Walther PP and got invaluable information from the one of the members. As i am in the process of buying a post-war Walther, i noticed that i could not find the same information about serial #s and dates of manufacture for the post-war Walthers. If anyone knows of a site where this information is available, please let me know.

    Crow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    I had previously asked about a pre-war Walther PP and got invaluable information from the one of the members. As i am in the process of buying a post-war Walther, i noticed that i could not find the same information about serial #s and dates of manufacture for the post-war Walthers. If anyone knows of a site where this information is available, please let me know.

    Crow
    You can simply e-mail Walther.

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    For everybody's information, the post-WW2 serial #s can be found in Dieter Marschall's book on Walthers. I have one more question though: Being new to Walthers i went ahead and bought a magazine for the .380 Walther i bought but have yet to receive. When i got it i noticed it has a ridge on the left side, while other magazines i see are smooth on both sides. None of the books i have discuss the difference in magazines, nor mention the ridge (elevation) on the side. Can someone explain to me if this means the magazine is for a post WW2 Walther .380, PP or PPK perhaps? There is no doubt that it is for a Walther PP or PPK. Your help will be appreciated as always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    For everybody's information, the post-WW2 serial #s can be found in Dieter Marschall's book on Walthers. I have one more question though: Being new to Walthers i went ahead and bought a magazine for the .380 Walther i bought but have yet to receive. When i got it i noticed it has a ridge on the left side, while other magazines i see are smooth on both sides. None of the books i have discuss the difference in magazines, nor mention the ridge (elevation) on the side. Can someone explain to me if this means the magazine is for a post WW2 Walther .380, PP or PPK perhaps? There is no doubt that it is for a Walther PP or PPK. Your help will be appreciated as always.
    Like this one?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    No, it has Walther banner on both sides and .380 on one side, 9mm kurz on the the other. It is clearly PP or PPK. The picture of the one you posted would be of a .22 lr if i am not mistaken.

    Crow

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    Here is a picture of magazine.

    Crow
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Walther Magazine.jpg  

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    lotuss, just wondering if you ever found out any info about your pp with a 5 digit SN? I also have one with 5 digits and the letter "a". cant find info about it anywhere. Thanks.

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    The approximate range of serial numbers for Walther PP's produced during the war(1939-1945) are 155501P to 3906xxP.
    Your serial number with the ac (Walther mfg code) falls in the late war, 1945 production period.

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    lotuss, just wondering if you ever found out any info about your pp with a 5 digit SN? I also have one with 5 digits and the letter "a". cant find info about it anywhere. Thanks.

    The letter "A" after the five-digit serial # means that it is a .380 caliber made in France betwee 1954 and 1985. The numbers assigned to the French Co. (Manurhin) were 12003A-78148A. You should be able to place your pistol in this range and determine the approximate date of manufacture. My information comes from Dieter Marschall, Walther Pistols, page 28.

    Crow

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    Hello, MP517PRCT. I have a Walther PP 7.65mm which my father liberated from a warehouse in Germany in 1945. It is in the original box with extra magazine and metal cleaning kit box. The serial number is 204613P. It has the N and eagle marks on the left side, but no acceptance marks since it was not issued. I checked your serial number chart, but my number is not listed as either 1940 or 1941. I would appreciate any help you can provide regarding the date of manufacture of this pistol.

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