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  1. #1
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    Default Grabbed a Yugoslav Model 1924b

    I've been wanting to upgrade my Yugoslav Model 1924b that I've had, and finally found one with the attributes and condition I'd been looking for...

    This one was a Gewehr 98 rifle that was converted over to Model 1924 specs using a new Yugoslav barrel, front and rear sights and hand-guard. The rest of the components are German and extensively marked with frakturs and previous serial numbers. The (beech?) stock has many older and faded markings along the right side, and a large 'B' stamp near the bottom. The stock ferrule appears to be unit marked. The rifle's serial number is marked along the left side and along the underside of the wrist, and matches the receiver and bolt. The bolt components are stamped with the corresponding last two digits of the serial number. There also appears to be old, worn grafitti consisting of two initials very lightly carved into the left side. The crown is good, and the bore is at least a Good+, but I'm optimistic it will improve with cleaning. The lands are about VG with plenty of life in them.

    Here are some pics in pre-cleaning status. Looking forward to running some rounds through this one. Now to sell my other 'b'...

    Best,
    PatClick image for larger version. 

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    No one ever got into Valhalla unarmed.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Really nice looking rifle with lots of history!

  3. #3
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    Good for you. Nice looking rifle. Ed
    mauserdad
    John 3:16 & 17 KJAV 1611
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  4. #4
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    Default Nice rifle.

    Poot, I've often thought the "second time around" GEW98's would make a nice collection theme in themselves. Lots of variations for sure. For when you get your Serb/Yugoslav collection completed. Let us know how it shoots.
    Last edited by lcmunn; 01-06-2012 at 08:21 PM. Reason: spelling.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Good looking M1924b.

    Rad
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  6. #6
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    Default

    Congrats on a really fine example of a tough find! Any hints as to where you found it and what it set you back?

    EDIT: Never mind. I just found out. All things considered, worth it I'd say.
    Last edited by nothernug; 01-06-2012 at 09:58 PM.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

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  7. #7
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    Great one Pat..Super pick up!..(I think your stock is Beech too)

  8. #8
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    Hi Pat,
    An excellent and rare find!! Rather than being a 'second time around" rifle, this is actually a third time around piece.

    Note the this rifle's unit marking disc appears to be stamped "36P" which is the format and markimng designation for the 36th Infantry Regiment of the new Czechoslovk Army. See Branko Bogdanovic's (page 128) and Miroslav Sada's books to follow the postwar twisted trail of German Gewehr 98's ending up in Yugoslav Army service.
    Best Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 01-07-2012 at 08:09 AM. Reason: claraification

  9. #9
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    With all the Gew-98 parts I never understood why they still used the South American short slot bayonet lug.I know nothing thrown away but then you still have to make the special bayonet or convert the old SA bayonet.I know dont throw anything away but.....I have seen 2 24b marked Conversions that had the Long "standard" bayonet lug.I like your rifle-looks like the standard 1960s import from S&D book store,but in nicer condition.Wouldnt the old B marking on the Receiver indicate that it was South American 7mm ex-Austrian converted by Yugoslavs?
    The Truth is Concrete-Bertolt Brecht
    While much is too strange to be believed,nothing is too strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy

  10. #10
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    Both the M1912 Mexican AND M98 conversions were marked as M1924b. The separation of text on the two conversions into one in Branko's book makes that issue confusing.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betonfahrer View Post
    With all the Gew-98 parts I never understood why they still used the South American short slot bayonet lug.I know nothing thrown away but then you still have to make the special bayonet or convert the old SA bayonet.I know dont throw anything away but.....I have seen 2 24b marked Conversions that had the Long "standard" bayonet lug.I like your rifle-looks like the standard 1960s import from S&D book store,but in nicer condition.Wouldnt the old B marking on the Receiver indicate that it was South American 7mm ex-Austrian converted by Yugoslavs?
    Betonfahrer,
    Are you referring to the Cyrillic 'B' after the Model 1924 designation, or the single, Latin 'B' on the left side of the barrel shank near the hand-guard wood line? If it's the latter, both of my M24b rifles have it in the same spot. I didn't see any reference to that in Branko's book.

    Pat
    No one ever got into Valhalla unarmed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    Hi Pat,
    An excellent and rare find!! Rather than being a 'second time around" rifle, this is actually a third time around piece.

    Note the this rifle's unit marking disc appears to be stamped "36P" which is the format and markimng designation for the 36th Infantry Regiment of the new Czechoslovk Army. See Branko Bogdanovic's (page 128) and Miroslav Sada's books to follow the postwar twisted trail of German Gewehr 98's ending up in Yugoslav Army service.
    Best Regards,
    John
    Thank you, John!
    Thank you for adding your insight to this. I assumed the unit designation referred to a German unit from the stock's first 'tour of duty,' and never considered the Czech angle. Very interesting! Is the number at 6 o'clock a rack number, then? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
    Pat
    No one ever got into Valhalla unarmed.

  13. #13
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    Hi Pat,
    I'm not sure about the number 6. In general, Czechoslovak unit-marked Mausers have the unit/regimental designation on top of the marking plate/disc, and the weapon's inventory property number below it. These inventory numbers can go into the thousands, leading me to think that all arms in the unit are included in the inventory, running from 1 up to 1,xxx and beyond. It may well be that your rifle, as a Gewehr 98, was the sixth weapon in the Czechoslovak 36th Infantry Regiment's arms inventory.
    Regards,
    John

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothernug View Post
    Both the M1912 Mexican AND M98 conversions were marked as M1924b. The separation of text on the two conversions into one in Branko's book makes that issue confusing.
    Jim,
    On the subject of these conversions, have you even seen and M.10C? Do we know how their reeceivers were marked?
    Regards,
    John

  15. #15
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    Thanks again for the information, John.
    FWIW, the top of the ferrule is marked '36P' and the bottom is marked '54.' Very interesting travels...
    Best,
    Pat
    No one ever got into Valhalla unarmed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    Jim,
    On the subject of these conversions, have you even seen and M.10C? Do we know how their receivers were marked?
    Regards,
    John
    Hi John. Regrettably, I have not physically or personally seen any actual examples of these pre-M1924 Serb rifles. But, on page 56 of B's book, he shows a drawing of the "Model 1910 Mauser 7x57" rifle. Is that what we're talking about here?
    If that is the case, the receiver ring has the Royal crest and is marked МОДЕЛ 1910.
    Hold it! Nope. That's not the one...

    Discussion of the post WWI conversion of that rifle to 7.82mm begins on page 61. Description of the markings is found on p.62.
    Branko says that the suffix "C" ('S' in Latin) denoted a weapon converted from Serbian arsenal inventories (bottom of p.61) see fig2-16. (p.62). Caption to Fig. 2-16 says that the "C" signifies the rifle was converted to fire the 7.92x57 cartridge.
    Reciever ring got the royal coat of arms crest, and МОДЕЛ 1910 C. The side rail was scrubbed and restamped "ORUZNA FABRIKA MAUZER.A.D. OBERNDORF N/N" (in Cyrillic as it appears on the receiver...)ОРУЖНА ФАБРИКА МАУЗЕР.А.Д. ОƂЕPHДOPФ Н / Н (Mauser Arms Factory, Oberndorf on Neckar). (ALSO, see p.236 for the correct Cyrillic characters.)
    As noted above, that's just from the book. I have not seen a physical example to confirm one but Branko did provide an image of the MOHEN 1899 C as an example of the type.

    I hope this helps?
    Last edited by nothernug; 01-10-2012 at 10:54 AM. Reason: typos
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

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  17. #17
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    Nothernug,
    There seems to be some mistakes in the Spelling in Cyrillic above: "Model 10 S" in cyrillic should have a "Cyrillic "D" (which looks like a flat top "A") and the "L" should look like a Greek "Lambda " ( orupside down "V"). SO if the Cyrillic letters were badly stamped, then the resulting mistakes will appear....Some of the "D" appear correctly in the stampings, but there may be other letters also "Misinterpreted".
    "Model is NOT "MOHEN" in Cyrillic....,that would be "Monei" in Roman....if you get my drift....I can't print proper Cyrillic yet here, but I can transliterate from one alphabet to another.

    Otherwise, Good thread and contributions. Besides the ex-Austrian M1912 Contract ( Colombia, Mexico & Chile?) Rifles, have any ex-Mauser Factory Brazilian M1908s show up as M24c ? ( second Contract Brazilian, double letter suffix, made 1912-14?).

    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

  18. #18
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    Hi Doc. Yeah, you are absolutely right and I know "MOHEN" ain't right. But, like using "ain't" (slap my wrist) I took a lazy shortcut by approximating the Cyrillic from my Latin keyboard. When I got to the siderail marking, that was way to extensive for such sloppiness so I went to my MS Word, typed it out in Cyrillic by selecting the characters from the drop down box provided. I then copied and pasted the resulting text here. I guess having gone that far, I should have just gone ahead and corrected the first. I have gone back and corrected it.

    Concerning your comments on the "S" as a "D", I am either misunderstanding you or must disagree. I quoted Branko closely, "The suffix "C" (English "S")..." is the exact quote and it is the character "C" that is stamped upon the weapons.

    Returning to the siderail marking, I do not have an image of the actual stamping on a rifle. Also, I do not speak Serb and cannot read the Cyrillic alphabet either. So all I can, and did, do was copy the characters from the book. On review, I found one character that differed from the examples given in the book and I have now corrected it. Can those in the book be wrong? Absolutely. But I do not have the knowledge to tell. Clarification on that point (Is the book in error there?) would be appreciated.

    So at question here is;
    a- have I (now) presented the characters as given in the book correctly?
    b- are the characters given in the book correctly.

    And, this would really be great, does anybody have one of these or images of one? I have not been able to find any (images) on the web so far.

    As a final note, I gotta point out that we have veered far afield from the M1924b. This discussion would be better split off into a new, self contained topic because then we might attract more answers to these particular questions.

    Thanks for the input doc. Your comments are always appreciated. I come away from them more educated and that's as should be.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

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