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Thread: case rupture

  1. #1
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    Default case rupture

    i took my 35 dated izzy to the range to day and shot around 30 rounds before i had one rupture.gun has a matching bolt.the one time i did not borrow a guage to check one out and this happens.got some hot gas in the face.i check each cas before and after fireing.this was a new tin i just got from aim dated 1975 russian light ball.i did order a okie field guage tonight.i all ways hs my mausers but had not got around to buying one for the mn. a few split necks is one thing but this one was way bad for me.

  2. #2
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    Most of us have had one like that at least once.
    It can occur in rifles with correct headspace, but certainly check yours.
    Wear eye protection and have a broken case extractor in your range bag.

  3. #3
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    This cartridge shows a 'fatigue' type split, not a headspace 'separation', I think. I inspect every round of military surplus ammunition I receive and I find a very small number of rounds with splits in the shoulder of the new cartridges and I discard them. Headspace is never, in my opinion, to be overlooked. The investment cost for a field-reject headspace gauge is small compared to the price of a nice MN/variant and worth a lot in terms of confidence and the alternative, of course is a visit with a trusted gun smith. I own field-reject gauges for my LEs and my MNs and I use them at least on initial evaluation of a new-to-me arm. If one doesn't know that headspace is good, one just simply does not know and that may be ok for some of us but what about the friend who wants to 'shoot a few rounds'? Case-head separations due to excessive headspace almost always show a separation of the cartridge base from the upper 70% of the brass body. Still, this poster has apparently not headspaced his rifle and he truly needs to do that. Knowledge is everything in shooting.
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  4. #4
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    Never seen a 762x54R steel case rupture so extensively like that one, I would be moving on what Ed Novak posted

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Never seen a 762x54R steel case rupture so extensively like that one, I would be moving on what Ed Novak posted
    Re Okie gauges: don't leave home (for the gun show) without them. I got the complete kit and use the "GO" gauge as well. A fired case will do the job - checking for insufficient headspace - but folks tend to be unappreciative of people chambering anything at a gun show. There was a recent thread about the MN's apparent lack of gas vents. The ejector groove in the bolt head serves as a vent, as well as the loose fit of the bolt head on the bolt connector.
    Last edited by Leon; 01-20-2012 at 10:31 AM. Reason: brain fart: typed "extractor" when I meant "ejector."

  6. #6
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    Default

    The photo is an excellent example of why you ALWAYS wear eye protection when shooting.

  7. #7
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    i usually borrow one to check one but did not this time .leason learned. id do have them for my mausers and did order the no and field from okie.

  8. #8
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    I suspect that the rifle has a generous chamber in the body, something that a headspace gauge will not detect.

    Steel cases are not nearly as forgiving as brass. As most of us know, a split at the neck or shoulder is not of much concern. A serious rupture like the one pictured is quite another matter.

    I have experienced case cracking with certain lots of ammo in certain rifles. I usually relegate the troublesome ammo to shoot in rifles with tighter chambers. We have a large quantity of Polish LB that is prone to cracking. It is excellent and accurate in spite of this shortcoming- we just need to be selective in firing it in the rifles with tighter chambers.

    The loose chambered rifles are usually fine with brass cased ammo, milsurp or otherwise.
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

  9. #9
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    thanks for all the replys .will let everyone know how it headspaces and will try some of my czech ammo in thegreen box with it.i have never had a problem with that ammo.

  10. #10
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    I have had several ruptures in my MN's always in the cheek, a tiny micro crack there. Not splitting the neck, or rupturing the side like that. I think its cartdrige case variation. I use the copper colored russian light ball.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun_nut_73 View Post
    The photo is an excellent example of why you ALWAYS wear eye protection when shooting.
    Ditto that. I've had that happen but not that bad.

  12. #12
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    thats real bad...length and almost lost the base.....my confidence would be shaken in the gun and ammo till i resolved some what the possibilities in play or not in play by illumination of facts?

  13. #13
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    i hopr mu no go guage gets here next week,who has bolt heads for a good price.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by dou 44 View Post
    thanks for all the replys .will let everyone know how it headspaces and will try some of my czech ammo in thegreen box with it.i have never had a problem with that ammo.
    I have to go with head space on this issue. Cases may be weak but head space is usually the problem. Heads are found on the internet all the time. But remember if you had a bad one you could buy another bad one. Check for a newish one or find one from the adds here on the board.. And in the WTT WTS area. I wish I had an extra one so I could sent it to you to try out. Other areas of the bold body could be worn also.
    That girl in the movie shot that womans hat from 2500 yards

  15. #15
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    It is surplus. It is old. Quality varies from lot to lot and can to can. Copper washed steel casings do tend to split. I have had some lots that cracked. Not the gun, didn't do that with a different batch.
    Some of the current Russian surp seems to be much worse than Bulgarian or Romanian or even the old fireball Albanian. Some of the spam cans look like they were buried in someone's back yard for years. It is what it is and you get what you pay for ...

  16. #16
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    dou 44,
    Did you ck the 30 or so that you had fired ?I do not think it was a head space issue.It looks like case fatique to me.Steel case is not very forgiving like brass case which will fire form better than steel case,thus case seperation.

  17. #17
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    I am sticking with my 'bad brass/cartridge' belief. Excessive headspace usually shows up with the cartridge typically separated into two pieces with a fairly clean circumferential break because of the set-back of the base of the cartridge into the excessive headspace. Headspace gauges: The 'no go' gauge, if passed simply says that headspace is sufficient; if failed it indicates insufficient headspace and a shorter bolt head or a barrel adjustment is needed. If the 'go' gauge is passed, it simply says that headspace is sufficient - it does not say that headspace is NOT excessive. The 'field or field reject' gauge reveals whether or not the headspace is 'within acceptable maximum specification(s) or excessive - in which case, the bolt-head needs to be longer or the barrel set back for safe operation. I've often said that the 'name' on the gauge is not important, it is the 'inch dimension' on the gauge which is important. A SAAMI gauge of .074" is the same as a MilSpec gauge of .074"; know the inch dimensions of importance and order by inch dimensions. Been there, done that decades ago = learned the hard way (wasted $).
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  18. #18
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    i checked all the cases before and after that was the only one to give any trouble. i just bought a case of it.

  19. #19

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    The more I think about it I could be very wrong. Time will tell.
    That girl in the movie shot that womans hat from 2500 yards

  20. #20
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    I think it's more ammo than rifle related.Russian 10-53 head stamp ammo brass cased,was famous for splitting.I think I might still have some cases left.I'llpost picks if I find them.

  21. #21
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    I would wager it is the ammo - If you continue to have problems with it, then use the components for reloading if you are a reloader. I have had problems with Bulgarian ammo. it is annoying when the case splits and you get that puff of gas in the face - I have had this happen a time or two with split cases. Russian surplus ammo is usually better than some of the other sources, but any of the steel cased ammo can do this.

    Pahtu.

  22. #22
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    I've only had neck cracks with some Polish light ball and severe sticking with the Polish heavy ball. I will now inspect each round of the cheap Russian light ball (I mean all ammo) before I fill the mag. +++1 on safety glasses...Please NEVER shoot anything without them...even a BB gun...You know you can shoot your eye out! I Seriously, I wear hearing protection too. Years of trap, & skeet have already taken a toll on me.

  23. #23
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    I just shot 60 rounds of russian surplus thru my m39. Not a hint of any problem, but heres the catch. I only carried 45 rounds when I left the house. I found a paper packet laying in the yard... been laying there a week in the kentucky rain. peeled off the paper, and the cartdriges were in good shape, except corroded badly near the rims, with orange rust stain. Wiped them off, and all shot perfect. Came back in with 5 rounds in my hand. I ran out of stones to make gravel out of. Those comrades make some boss ammo!
    Last edited by carol tenge; 01-22-2012 at 01:47 PM. Reason: spel rong

  24. #24
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    A week in the yard in Kentucky can't be as bad for a cartridge as a month in a trench at Stalingrad...
    n
    Quote Originally Posted by carol tenge View Post
    I just shot 60 rounds of russian surplus thru my m39. Not a hint of any problem, but heres the catch. I only carried 45 rounds when I left the house. I found a paper packet laying in the yard... been laying there a week in the kentucky rain. peeled off the paper, and the cartdriges were in good shape, except corroded badly near the rims, with orange rust stain. Wiped them off, and all shot perfect. Came back in with 5 rounds in my hand. I ran out of stones to make gravel out of. Those comrades make some boss ammo!

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