Removing Bayonet from a M44
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Thread: Removing Bayonet from a M44

  1. #1

    Default Removing Bayonet from a M44

    Has anyone mangaed to remove a M44 bayonet without ruining the originality of the rifle.

    I would like to remove the bayonet from my M44 so I can shoot it without the bayonet to see just how much affect it has on the accuracy of the rifle, but I want to be able to reinstall the bayonet so the rifle will be returned to original condition.

    The screw holding the bayonet on my M44 is staked at the thread end and is so tight, I can't begin to turn the screw. I don't want to damage anything in the process

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    Why?, If you don't want to shoot the M44 with the bayonet deployed, leave it in the stowed position. The fact that the screw is tight and staked should tell you this weapon was designed to be used with the bayonet in place. I can't see that removing the bayonet would affect barrel harmonics or improve accuracy, only reduce the weight a little.

    Or, if you really don't want a bayonet on the rifle, get hold of an M38.

    ukrifleman

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    Quote Originally Posted by ukrifleman View Post
    Why?, If you don't want to shoot the M44 with the bayonet deployed, leave it in the stowed position. The fact that the screw is tight and staked should tell you this weapon was designed to be used with the bayonet in place. I can't see that removing the bayonet would affect barrel harmonics or improve accuracy, only reduce the weight a little.

    Or, if you really don't want a bayonet on the rifle, get hold of an M38.

    ukrifleman

    EXACTLY what he said!!!...
    MY FIRST TEN MOSIN NAGANTS:
    1925 Izhevsk m1891/30 Ex-Dragoon- "Katalin"
    1939 Tula m1891/30 Lam. Stock- "Irena"
    1934 Tikka m27- "Tiina-Rakel"
    1938 Tula m1891/30 Finn Captured- "Nainen Sodassa"
    1955 Type 53 Carbine- "Thu Huong"
    1944 Tikka m1891/30- "Isošiti"
    1942 VKT m1891- "Mummo"
    1916 Tula PTG m1891 Finn'd- "Petra"
    1967 No-Maker m39- "Tuuli"
    1926-8 Bohler-Stahl m24- "Vanha Rouva"

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  5. #4
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    Try some penetrating oil on the screw. you can thin it a little with acetone if you need to, to get it into the threads. Let it sit overnite. Use a good quality, well fitting screw driver, try to tighten it 1st sometimes that breaks it loose.
    If you're talking about removing the whole thing, bracket and all...geez...I don't even think that can be done, i dunno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ukrifleman View Post
    Why?, If you don't want to shoot the M44 with the bayonet deployed, leave it in the stowed position. The fact that the screw is tight and staked should tell you this weapon was designed to be used with the bayonet in place. I can't see that removing the bayonet would affect barrel harmonics or improve accuracy, only reduce the weight a little.

    Or, if you really don't want a bayonet on the rifle, get hold of an M38.

    ukrifleman
    Quote Originally Posted by themosinator View Post
    EXACTLY what he said!!!...
    +2.

    Removing the bayonet will have an effect on the harmonics and accuracy. M44 shoots best with bayonet deployed, was designed for such and zeroed that way. Removing the bayonet makes rifle no longer "original", "re-furb original". Besides when you sell it, someone will know it was removed and if it were me wanting it, that equals less $$$ for it.

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    use kroil and a really BIG screw driver .



    FIVESHOT

  8. #7

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    I guess everyone is missing what my intentions are.

    I will not remove the bayonet unless it can be done without damaging anything. I fully intend to put the bayonet back on the rifle after I test to see if accuracy is greatly improved with it off. In no way would I ruin the 44 just because.

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    Well it looks like forty5cal and FIVESHOT are going to be on the dodo list here for a while till they mend their ways.I got politely skewered for pubicly calling an Izhevsk an Izzy.Let the public lashins begin.
    Last edited by gremlin1945; 01-27-2012 at 11:23 PM.

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    Default Gee..............

    I call them Izzy, Chat, Tork, Sesty, etc. I am too lazy to look up the proper spelling........chris3

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    no no no you got it wrong . . . . . ( sigh )

    that's how I take an M44 bayonet off .

    with no damage at all . I've done several

    and never hurt a single one or any other

    vintage military weapon . EVER .



    [I]FIVESHOT/B]

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    Just tryin' to help a guy out. Go ahead...hang me, put me on the list, bring the tar an' feathers. While you're at it, add yerself to the list for foul language Mr.Gremlin. Didn't think we'd notice that ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty5cal View Post
    Just tryin' to help a guy out. Go ahead...hang me, put me on the list, bring the tar an' feathers. While you're at it, add yerself to the list for foul language Mr.Gremlin. Didn't think we'd notice that ?
    Well let me put this in easy to understand language.I was on your side of what you posted.The hard core collectors here think it's against all that's noble to do any modifications to these rifles,and they have to right to think so.Some others want to do minor reversable changes and they're in their rights to do so if it's their rifles.Then you have Bubbas who only know the hammer and hacksaw.I don't agree with that at all but they paid for their stuff and can do what they want with it. As far as "foul language" the term wasn't used to insult anyone directly.If you have any similence of common sense you could see it was done in a humorous way.But then geograpy might have something to do with comprehension of the written word.
    Where are the laughing icons when you need them.
    Seriously the post was all in fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gremlin1945 View Post
    Well let me put this in easy to understand language.I was on your side of what you posted.The hard core collectors here think it's against all that's noble to do any modifications to these rifles,and they have to right to think so.Some others want to do minor reversable changes and they're in their rights to do so if it's their rifles.Then you have Bubbas who only know the hammer and hacksaw.I don't agree with that at all but they paid for their stuff and can do what they want with it. As far as "foul language" the term wasn't used to insult anyone directly.If you have any similence of common sense you could see it was done in a humorous way.But then geograpy might have something to do with comprehension of the written word.
    Where are the laughing icons when you need them.
    Seriously the post was all in fun.

    If it is yours then do what you want to with it. MOST of us hard core collectors here do think it is against all that is noble to make changes. We live by it. If it is not broke and for the sake of making it functional I believe most of us it alone.

    I don't think anyone is insulted by the foul language you used. All of us hear it everyday and is nothing new but the forum rules state the following...


    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ormation-Links.

    If you have any common sense you would go back to your post and delete the foul language.

    that's my 2 cents.

  15. #14

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    I never intended this to become ugly. I guess the purest wouldn't ever think of removing a stock or other rifle parts for any reason. Whatever happened to those that would move parts around to make a refurb rifle look more like an original. Something as simple as swapping out the barrel bands marked Tula and putting them on a Tula.

    I see nothing wrong with removing a part for the purpose of testing for accuracy without it, them putting the part back on. I'll bet the farm that is how a good number of more like original rifles get that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FINN ADDICT View Post
    If it is yours then do what you want to with it. MOST of us hard core collectors here do think it is against all that is noble to make changes. We live by it. If it is not broke and for the sake of making it functional I believe most of us it alone.

    I don't think anyone is insulted by the foul language you used. All of us hear it everyday and is nothing new but the forum rules state the following...


    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ormation-Links.

    If you have any common sense you would go back to your post and delete the foul language.

    that's my 2 cents.
    Reread my post,I said you were right in your mind to think that.You say that if I want to change anything,even something reversable,it's ok.Well read some of the replys to posts where someone wants to make that sort of change and they get vilified by some of the hard core collectors.So how do you reply to that?As long as the change isn't irreversible what's the harm of making the change to the OWNERS satisfaction.
    I altered th post,does that meet with your standards?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead Head View Post
    I never intended this to become ugly. I guess the purest wouldn't ever think of removing a stock or other rifle parts for any reason. Whatever happened to those that would move parts around to make a refurb rifle look more like an original. Something as simple as swapping out the barrel bands marked Tula and putting them on a Tula.

    I see nothing wrong with removing a part for the purpose of testing for accuracy without it, them putting the part back on. I'll bet the farm that is how a good number of more like original rifles get that way.
    Threads like this become ugly when some self appointed "collectors" try to impose their will on those that want to make tweaks to THEIR rifles.Granted butchering a functional rifle makes no sense and should be criticised,but the majority of changes are ones that can be reversed in the future.There's room for collectors and tinkerers in these and other rifles.
    Now the Hungarian 98-40 I have is a different animal.Mine was Bubba'd (irreplaceble stock and bands and hard to get rear sight)
    before I got it it.A rarity like that should be left untouched,just as a rare Mosin,mauser etc. should remain untouched.

    That's only my opinion which is like you know what,everybody has one.(Is that alright with you Mr Finn?)

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    I would think most folks would question the real purpose or value behind doing such a thing. Not worth the potential damage in my book. But ultimatley, you asked a group of collectors how to remove something from a rifle that was meant to be attached. Little question marks floating over my head at the moment.

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    Since an M38 and an M44 have the same barrels and nearly identical other components, from the same maker, it is easy to see that both can shoot fairly accurately without a bayonet if the sights are adjusted for it.
    Neither, with iron sights, stock trigger, surplus ammo and less-than-Zaitsev eyes, is likely going to shoot MOA groups at any distance.
    Does an M44 shoot better with or without a bayonet extended? Easy to test for your rifle.
    Does it shoot better if you completely remove the bayonet? I don't know for your rifle, but my very good M38 and numerous M44s, including a nearly new Pole, are none of them equal to my iron sight Tula "CH" accuracy rifle or M39, but all can have the sights adjusted to do pretty much equally well.
    I see no real accuracy difference between my M38 or my M44s in my modest iron sight shooting skill range, but I'd sure rather lug an M38 around the woods if given the choice.
    Take off your bayonet for tests if you can do it with no damage and then put it back. Better or worse accuracy? Let us know.
    As for me, if I want no bayonet, I just take down the M38.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead Head View Post
    I guess everyone is missing what my intentions are.

    I will not remove the bayonet unless it can be done without damaging anything. I fully intend to put the bayonet back on the rifle after I test to see if accuracy is greatly improved with it off. In no way would I ruin the 44 just because.
    OK, The simple answer to your question is: No, you cannot remove the bayonet assembly without destroying the originality. As you have noticed, the screws are staked. This is intentional. I do not think it is possible to remove the bayonet without messing up the screw to a greater or lesser extent.

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    I guess that,correctly,trying to remove the bayonet would lessen the value of the rifle,so then it would be considered Bubbaing it.I'd agree the that would wouldn't be the right thing to do.The last two corrective posts were made without any negative remarks towards the original poster,maybe some more of that and there wouldn't be the bickering going on between collectors and newer members who aren't aware of the consequences of their work.

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    ...what's similence??...
    MY FIRST TEN MOSIN NAGANTS:
    1925 Izhevsk m1891/30 Ex-Dragoon- "Katalin"
    1939 Tula m1891/30 Lam. Stock- "Irena"
    1934 Tikka m27- "Tiina-Rakel"
    1938 Tula m1891/30 Finn Captured- "Nainen Sodassa"
    1955 Type 53 Carbine- "Thu Huong"
    1944 Tikka m1891/30- "Isošiti"
    1942 VKT m1891- "Mummo"
    1916 Tula PTG m1891 Finn'd- "Petra"
    1967 No-Maker m39- "Tuuli"
    1926-8 Bohler-Stahl m24- "Vanha Rouva"

  23. #22
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    Gremlin,
    I fully understood your post and took it as a joke, I even laughed. I meant my post after as joke too. No hard feelings here.
    I know about the purists here, I've been reading this forum for 7 months before joining. Now that I think about, maybe you're right, this ain't the place to help people fix their guns...ummm... I mean modify, destroy, desecrate.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty5cal View Post
    Gremlin,
    I fully understood your post and took it as a joke, I even laughed. I meant my post after as joke too. No hard feelings here.
    I know about the purists here, I've been reading this forum for 7 months before joining. Now that I think about, maybe you're right, this ain't the place to help people fix their guns...ummm... I mean modify, destroy, desecrate.

    yep....you guys are gettin' it...


    this is NOT the place to discuss people "fixing" their firearms...

    ...The place for THAT is over in the Workbench forum...where members discuss modifications...NOT here on the Collector's Forum...where we talk about collecting!!...


    ...really like you new members enthusiasm, though...don't get hung up on some of the technicalities here on GB...just read the rules thoroughly, and you will understand WHERE to post your questions without getting hammered by long-term members...
    MY FIRST TEN MOSIN NAGANTS:
    1925 Izhevsk m1891/30 Ex-Dragoon- "Katalin"
    1939 Tula m1891/30 Lam. Stock- "Irena"
    1934 Tikka m27- "Tiina-Rakel"
    1938 Tula m1891/30 Finn Captured- "Nainen Sodassa"
    1955 Type 53 Carbine- "Thu Huong"
    1944 Tikka m1891/30- "Isošiti"
    1942 VKT m1891- "Mummo"
    1916 Tula PTG m1891 Finn'd- "Petra"
    1967 No-Maker m39- "Tuuli"
    1926-8 Bohler-Stahl m24- "Vanha Rouva"

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    I thought it would be best to ask questions here,where the most knowledgable people can give factual answers.I have a feel for the people now who I'll PM to get a professional answers to any questions I have and I'll just lurk here to pick up more knowledge about these rifles.For all the grammer profs. I've corrected my wording mistake.And I now call the Izhevsk's now not Izzy's.

  26. #25
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    The bayonet can be removed by removal of the retaining screw- staked or not. It could be restaked if wanted. I think you'll find accuracy actually worse if you do remove it.
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    My 1944 Tulla carbine has no Bayonet????
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC_0006(1).JPGDSC_0004.JPGDSC_0009(1).JPGTwo carbines 003.JPGTULLA 007.JPGTULLA barrel 005.JPG

    Last edited by MIKEMC; 03-25-2012 at 11:39 AM.

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    As to removing the staked screw - After you soak the screw rest the barrel on a block of wood, use the proper size screw driver and hit the handle of the screw driver with a hammer as you twist the screw. It will come loose. You won't hurt the value as long as the screw isn't damaged.
    I have tested the accuracy of 2 M44's and 1 91/30 with and without bayonets deployed. They simply hit in different spots but the accuracy isn't better with the bayonet deployed. My M38 out shoots both M44's. As far as accuracy goes, my .02 says the Mosin is ok at best. If you want accuracy from a milsurp you need a 1903 or a Mauser.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEMC View Post
    My 1944 Tulla carbine has no Bayonet????
    Now that is interesting!! It either had one once and then retrofitted or they ran out of bayonet/mts that day. Musta been after the Tula employees office christmas party!!

  30. #29
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    You can easily, quickly and with no damage remove the bayonet blade. Use this hammer blow impact driver. It is a very handy tool for setting and removing screws. I use a similar one on PU and PEM screws and any staked srew or stubborn screw or bolt removal.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece...set-93481.html

  31. #30
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    If a milsurp has a screw on it, then it was meant to be taken apart. That's what screws are for. Jeeze! Hector the Collector types, give it a rest.

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    If the screw is "staked", it was NOT meant to be removed! If you don't want a guy posting about modifications in the Collector's Forum, just ignore his post, don't keep replying and "feeding the beast"! I have owned three M44's and none of them can group like my (new to me) M38.

  33. #32
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    A screw is a removeable fastener by design. Staking is to prevent inadvertent backing out of the fastener.

    If it was made as non removeable it would have been press or flare riveted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
    A screw is a removeable fastener by design. Staking is to prevent inadvertent backing out of the fastener.

    If it was made as non removeable it would have been press or flare riveted.
    Right.

    I removed the bayonet on my M44 after I bought it for cleaning purposes. It required a proper sized screwdriver and some force to remove, but nothing was damaged in the process. It went back together without issue, doesn't come back apart of it's own volition, and works correctly.

    If you do choose to remove the part, take your time, use the proper tool, and be careful.

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbine85 View Post
    I have tested the accuracy of 2 M44's and 1 91/30 with and without bayonets deployed. They simply hit in different spots but the accuracy isn't better with the bayonet deployed.
    Reposting this before it gets lost in the chatter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
    You can easily, quickly and with no damage remove the bayonet blade. Use this hammer blow impact driver. It is a very handy tool for setting and removing screws. I use a similar one on PU and PEM screws and any staked srew or stubborn screw or bolt removal.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece...set-93481.html
    I have the heavy duty version of this from Sears and it's awesome. These things can save a lot of time.

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