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  1. #1
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    Default M1891 Carcano in 6.5X54

    A local gunshop has an 1894 dated M91 Carcano Infantry Rifle (Terni) in the Mannlicher-Schonauer caliber of 6.5x54... I think? The caliber designation is stamped on the barrel.

    The gun has been refurbished, and is in a beech stock (3/4" chip behind tang). Really nice looking gun aside from the chip in the stock.

    Is this a mis-stamped designation? And regardless, is $175 out of the question for value? Thanks.

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    Austrian captured?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddyofurniture View Post
    Austrian captured?
    How could one tell?

    It really just looks like an 1891 with an upgraded stock and re-blued.

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    The only two countries that come to mind are Greece and Albania. Unfortunately I've never heard of either rechambering a carcano....

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    '6.5mm M.91 Adaptiertes Italienisches Repetier-Gewehr are Austrian designation. The should be marked stamped with the AZF.

    Paddy

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    The shop owner and I discussed the Greek possibility, but we may be WAY off mark. He had no 6.5X54 (or X52) to check in the chamber. I did not see any AZF, but then again, I wasn't looking.

    Anyway, aside from the chip in the stock, would anyone take a chance at $175?

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    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    Anyway, aside from the chip in the stock, would anyone take a chance at $175?
    Heck, yes! A 1894 made Carcano could still have its old style bolt, with the extractor through the locking lug (left bolt). In this case it will be worth quite a bit more than $175.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M91-4-1.jpg  
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    I will check on that bolt/extractor. Thanks.

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    Not necessarily for a pre-1907 Long 91. Bolts were regularly updated in 91s after 1907, so it is possible for a pre'07 91 to have the post-'07 bolt fitted. I have a 1912 Terni ( bought in 1968) with a pre-'07 bolt fitted.

    The AZF marking Carcanos also had "It. u. Gr." stamped on the metal ( Italiener und Graechen ( patronen) )

    The Greeks mostly rechambered carbines and TS rifles to 6,5MS after WW II. There may be some Greek property Markings on these, but no indications of calibre change. In any case, both 6,5 It. and 6,5 MS will fire in these.

    On the other hand, many Italian Rifles going through Britain were "upgraded " to 6,5MS, due to the relative availability of Commercial 6,5 MS ammo in Britain ( popular since before WW I for Deer Hunting). AN "aftermarket" Conversion. ( after WW II)

    Careful examination of the rifle concerned is important to ascertain what calibre cartridge it actually is, and how it got that way.

    regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

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    The Greek conversions will have E stamped on the receiver ring. SW
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocAV View Post
    Not necessarily for a pre-1907 Long 91. Bolts were regularly updated in 91s after 1907, so it is possible for a pre'07 91 to have the post-'07 bolt fitted. I have a 1912 Terni ( bought in 1968) with a pre-'07 bolt fitted.

    The AZF marking Carcanos also had "It. u. Gr." stamped on the metal ( Italiener und Graechen ( patronen) )

    The Greeks mostly rechambered carbines and TS rifles to 6,5MS after WW II. There may be some Greek property Markings on these, but no indications of calibre change. In any case, both 6,5 It. and 6,5 MS will fire in these.

    On the other hand, many Italian Rifles going through Britain were "upgraded " to 6,5MS, due to the relative availability of Commercial 6,5 MS ammo in Britain ( popular since before WW I for Deer Hunting). AN "aftermarket" Conversion. ( after WW II)

    Careful examination of the rifle concerned is important to ascertain what calibre cartridge it actually is, and how it got that way.

    regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.


    Hello Gents, Hi Doc!

    Spot on, as usual, regarding the Austro-Hungarian chamber reamed examples. The "It. u. Gr." was also stamped on the stock of some examples instead of on the barrel or reciver.

    Interesting rifle!

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  12. #12
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    Picked up the rifle today for $157.50 OTD. It looks like the updated bolt, and no immediate discernible markings to denote Austro-Hungarian on the outside, just a stamp on the top barrel flat of 6.5X54.

    I'll break it down, clean it up, and get some pics soon.

  13. #13

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    My 1895 fucile has an upgraded bolt, my comrade's 1918 fucile has an original style bolt. However, somebody crudely marked my bolt with a serial number that doesn't match the rifle, so I suspect it may have been swapped later. Also, and this has been bugging me, through what has mostly been reenactment use the bolt shows "wear" above the bolt handle -- like a little shiny groove has been created.

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    This could be a Cooey/Carcano 6.5/54. Cooey change them to this for Eatons the store in Canada in the late 1930.

    I have one, post a photo for us to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyzack View Post
    This could be a Cooey/Carcano 6.5/54. Cooey change them to this for Eatons the store in Canada in the late 1930.

    I have one, post a photo for us to see.
    Here is a link to the thread with plenty of pictures.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...-6-5X54ms-Pics

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