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Thread: Which is rarer 91/38 's or 91/59's?

  1. #1
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    Default Which is rarer 91/38 's or 91/59's?

    I own one of each and have not seen any estimates of their production/conversion numbers. The 91/38 is in a blond stock with a 1905 hex receiver. Were most 91/38's round or hex receivers? The 91/59 is a 1939 Tula Arsenal. Is the Tula 91/59's any rarer than the Izhevsk conversions? If you were to keep only one of these two carbines which would you keep. Both in similar condition.

  2. #2

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    91/38's should all be hex receivers. I'd keep a 91/38 over a 91/59 any day.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
    91/38's should all be hex receivers. I'd keep a 91/38 over a 91/59 any day.
    And twice on Sundays. I've never even bought a 91/59. Personally, the 91/38s are far more interesting.

    Pat
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    Interestingly, I have owned both but sold the Czech carbine while keeping the 91/59. The M44 stock and fat front sight, aside from the interesting dates and octagonal receiver, make the 91/38 seem chunkier. Indeed, there is evidence that 91/44 is more appropriate, as these carbines may have been updated to post-war m44 condition rather than m38. Either way, it was need, but less-well finished than the 91/59's. More to the point, we don't even know the correct designation for that carbine. We say 91/38, but who knows what the Czechs called it.

    The 91/59 is at least kind enough to label itself and so we know what to call it. Interestingly, it is the only Mosin, in general, that is so kind to the user as to tell us what to call it. They are slimmer overall. Admittedly not by much, but their dimensions are sleek enough to feel less clunky. I have owned every type of common Mosin carbine but the only one I retained was the 91/59. The m44's of every flavor were nose-heavy and while the 38 I owned was slim due to the 38 stock, it was not in good shape bore-wise. The Czech was neat and looked interesting and was mysterious, but just couldn't hold my interest as an arm by itself. Hardly more is known about the 91/59's (I imagine they were both updated for exactly the same reason, perhaps we are discussing which type of M-16 updated to m4 status is more interesting, a Vietnam M16 or a 1980's M16A1?), but as a field-carry carbine, it just seems more apt to the task.

    Of course, it is merely opinions and I'll rate mine no higher than anyone else. Perhaps I should have kept mine, in lieu of my interest in Czech arms, including a Swiss-made CZ-75. But it just didn't capture my imagination. The 91/59 doesn't either, but it sure looks nicer.
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  5. #5
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    It is hard to judge the 91/38 on just one stock. I have one with a M38 stock and one with a M91 or Dragoon stock that was cut down to carbine length (and the "usual" bayonet groove was added.) The cut down stock it the coolest.

    I would trade my beautiful 91/59 for almost any average 91/38. I like the old logos before the Soviets changed them. That's why I mainly collect M91s.

    And to answer the question again, the 91/38s are rarer.

  6. #6
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    They are rarer in the US, which is to say an East German warehouse might reveal otherwise.
    Rise of the Dark Son - by Davis E. Riddle
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    “A citizen may not be required to offer a good and substantial reason why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.”—Judge Benson E. Legg

  7. #7
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    Shooting wise the 91/59 buries the 91/38! Especially in the trigger department! I still have the 91/38 and now have 3 91/59's with the last one being tiger striped and likely to never leave here. I don't find the 91/38 to be clunky as Davis said his felt but the fit and finish on it are far poorer than any of the 91/59's I have had over the years. All of the 91/59's had great triggers and shot just so well for a carbine at 100 yards. Looks wise they far out strip the plain blond finishes of the three 91/38's I have had. You can only speak with wisdom on what you see and shoot so maybe I just haven't had the right 91/38 to impress me yet? Bill
    zeebill live from the hills of West Virginia!

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    k98kollector didn't mention whether he wanted a shooter or a collectible.

    You are right about shooting with the 91/59.

    On the other hand, I collect older Mosins, mainly for the cool markings. While the blonde stock would not be anything special, the 05 arsenal mark, will be cooler than the 39 mark. (I only have a Chatellerault and a Tula 91/38 and would be thrilled to get a Sestroryetsk.) I would happily trade my only 91/59 for one.

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    M38 all have hex receivers? I have never seen one with a hex. Here's on with round receiver.Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by point View Post
    M38 all have hex receivers?
    M38's are mostly round receivers, some recycled hex receivers exist.

    The discussion is about the M91/38, a different mutant beast along the lines of the M91/59. The M91/38 and M38 are not the same.

  11. #11
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    In 13 years of collecting I've owned several 91/59's and passed on more than I can recollect. I don't see them around anymore, but they were once considered very common. On the other hand, I've only seen 2 91/38's in person. I bought my first back in 2000. I bought the second 3 or 4 years ago. I sold the more recent one when I had the financial need to do so, but still have my first. They are very uncommon and I do regret selling one of mine. They're just really interesting for all the reasons already mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by point View Post
    M38 all have hex receivers? I have never seen one with a hex. Here's on with round receiver.
    91/38's were made from cut down M91's. M38's were made as carbines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nwellons View Post
    k98kollector didn't mention whether he wanted a shooter or a collectible.

    You are right about shooting with the 91/59.

    On the other hand, I collect older Mosins, mainly for the cool markings. While the blonde stock would not be anything special, the 05 arsenal mark, will be cooler than the 39 mark. (I only have a Chatellerault and a Tula 91/38 and would be thrilled to get a Sestroryetsk.) I would happily trade my only 91/59 for one.
    Every once in a while, Neal trots out pictures of his Chatellerault and we remember why we like 91/38's.
    "Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayshooter2 View Post
    91/38's were made from cut down M91's. M38's were made as carbines.
    Thanks for that. You are never too old to learn. I thought that M38s were the same as 91/38. I have never seen a 91/38. I bow back gracefully.

  15. #15
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    Only seen 2 91/38s ever. Both were made into faux snipers. Go figure.

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    Thanks for all the good info. I know that I have only seen the two that I own at the local gun shows and shops. I am glad I purchased them on the spot. So it seems the 91/38 is less common. I am thinking of thining out the collection some and want to keep some of the less common rifles. So would you keep a 1943 Model 44 over the91/59?

  17. #17
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    The 1943 M44, no question for me.

  18. #18
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    Keep the '43 M44 unless the 91/59 is not a common original date or hex receiver or has something that makes it neat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k98kollector View Post
    Is the Tula 91/59's any rarer than the Izhevsk conversions?.
    Yes, in comparison to Izhevsk round receivers

  20. #20

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    I've never seen a 91/38. Not even pics


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    M91/38 is less common than a 91/59. I've been hitting shows and gunshops pretty thoroughly for much of the 21st century and I've only seen two in the wild, and neither was for sale... [Drat!]

    I've got a 91/59 and it is a great carbine for sure. Sort of my "go to" Mosin, although my Finn Tikka 91/30 has displaced it somewhat from rotation.
    These days I've got only three carbines: 91/59, Tula M44 and a Hungarian M44, which I might eliminate from the collection at some point. Hard to say. I'd be all over a '43 M44...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang5l5 View Post
    I've never seen a 91/38. Not even pics
    Top 91/38 is 1892 Chatellerault in modified M91 stock. Bottom is 1897 Tula in M38 stock.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 91-38-comparison.jpg   Arsenal-marks.jpg   1892C-Arsenal-mark.jpg  

  23. #23
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    Just before the CALIFORNIA draconian DROS system went into effect Big 5 had a huge sale on 91/59s. Folk were lined up out the door to buy them (and everything else available). You were limited to 5 guns per and several buyers had wives and other eligibles in line. They must have had several cargo trucks full direct from from CAI. No choice as they were sold as they came off the trucks into the store. Talk about Laws boosting sales!!!

  24. #24
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    Picked up a M91/38 some years ago at a backstreet gun store in Glendale CA just because it was cheap and I liked the way it looked. Not bad for $79!


    Whoa! HUGE pictures! Still trying to figure out this picture posting stuff. Mods feel free to shrink them if you like.

  25. #25
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    Nice looking rifles Guys! I purchased my 91/38 about five years ago for $85. It was a pawn shop find.

  26. #26
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    I have tried reading this4 times and each time distracted by the kid or wife. I have 2 M-38 carbines, They are both ground hex recievers,one in the cut stock and the other in m-44. Are these common or not?

  27. #27
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    Russ661 thats a beauty of a 91-38...thanks for the pics. Denny

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    Quote Originally Posted by securitysix View Post
    I have tried reading this4 times and each time distracted by the kid or wife. I have 2 M-38 carbines, They are both ground hex recievers,one in the cut stock and the other in m-44. Are these common or not?
    Not common at all. Are the barrel dates readable?
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

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