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Thread: 1898 Carl Gustav M96 Serial # 12

  1. #1

    Default 1898 Carl Gustav M96 Serial # 12

    I had a chance to get a couple pics of this gun today at my Dad's house. She has definitely has been ridden hard and put away wet. The only numbers I can find that match are the butt plate, bolt release and the rear sight. The bolt numbers match, but are in a different script. The firing pin as you can see has been force matched. It's the only Swede I've seen with a terrible bore. I'll try to run a couple patches through it someday and see if it cleans up at all. Anyways I still think its a pretty cool gun wanted to share. The pics aren't the best in the low light, but oh well.

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  2. #2

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    Wow! That should be in a museum.

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    Thanks for sharing! Great find...any info how long has your dad that little beauty hidden in the basement?

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    I would say it hasn't seen the light of day in about 10 years or so.

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    What would the value be (ballpark of course) for a double digit specimen? Would it add a substantial premium percentage for most milsurp types? Just curious, in case I ever run across something similar in my travels.

    Dale

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    I'm not sure of a specific value. I know I would pay a premium for a 2 digit gun if it was all matching.

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    Super RARE !!!!!!!!! I like it . Value ??????? I guess each collector would have to judge it himself . We have seen nice condition & matching 1898 M96's sell for $700+ at auction ( not 2 digit serial #'s ) . Antique & no paper work . This #12 is offset by poor condition & non-matching . My guess at auction would be $300/$500 . That is a lot , but we have seen crazy things happen at auction . Could go for more if two stubborn collectors get to fighting over it . Not likely you will see many 2 digit Swedish mausers for sale . How many have survived , unknown ?????????

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    Very very cool, even considering the condition.
    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    I find the placement of the serial number on this specimen interesting. I have a 94/14 1898 carbine, and the number is so far forward that it actually touches the "G" in GEVARSFAKTORI. That number is 171.

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    Well, I've got m/96-38 based on a 1898 CG and with serial #896 - I paid just over $850 for it here in yUK.

    tac
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    never seen a two digit when i was collecting them...30 years ago
    price depends how the barrel cleans up....it my just be powder, dirt, gunk, dried grease, varnished oils?
    GOD<><SAVE THE CONSTITUTION / STATES RIGHTS><>NRA

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    Number placement on my 3-digit m96. Inspector initials are in smaller font and not in line with the number. One away from TAC's m96-38..

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    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    Please PM me so I can send you a pic of mine!!!!!

    Best

    tac
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    Quote Originally Posted by akb View Post
    I find the placement of the serial number on this specimen interesting. I have a 94/14 1898 carbine, and the number is so far forward that it actually touches the "G" in GEVARSFAKTORI. That number is 171.
    Possibly a replacement receiver? A picture would be nice.
    .
    I can make it to the front gate in 3.2 seconds. Can you do it in 3.1?

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    That would be a good test to see if consecutive serial numbered receivers are marked the same on the bottom .

    Can both of you provide a clear photo of the bottom of the receiver of #895 & #896 ???????

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    Quote Originally Posted by buffdog View Post
    Possibly a replacement receiver? A picture would be nice.
    .
    This is interesting , as there is a CG 1905 carbine with serial number 171 floating around somewhere . Now , I would guess it is a 1895 Mauser replacement receiver .

    If you will look on page 150 of Crown Jewels , you will see a M94 dated 1898 & serial number 259 . This number is right under the "C" in Carl Gustaf and the "O.G." inspectors initials follow , rather than precede the serial number . Also , note the larger stamped "259". It appears these early first year receivers were a work in progress as to locating & stamping the serial numbers .

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    here is a pic of 1895 sel # 5 link to more pic http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...94-14-serial-5
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Swede%20M94%20#5%2012%20(2).JPG  

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    Quote Originally Posted by swede View Post
    That would be a good test to see if consecutive serial numbered receivers are marked the same on the bottom .

    Can both of you provide a clear photo of the bottom of the receiver of #895 & #896 ???????
    Not until August. The 1898 is already crated and in storage.
    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    That is OK . We will just have to wait until August . Not likely I will remember it , so I will leave it up to you , if you are interested .

    So , you have CG 1898 #895 and CG 1901 S.895 ????????

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    If it had been a Winchester 70 with a very low serial, like under ten, the value of it could be measured in the lower six digits, like 1/4 of a million dollars and up ? This Swede is a keeper, can only go up in value, because of the low serial number ? Have no idea what the traffic could handle right now in regards price. Thanks for posting.

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    Default 1898 CG M96/14, serial #171

    Actually, my mind's eye was not as correct as my camera.
    Here the photo shows the numbers cutting into the C. I found this carbine in Rocksprings, Wyoming and it took me about 10 years to convince the owner to let me have it. It had been taken out of livery and put into a sporter stock, but the owner had packed the stock away in the attic, along with all the other metal parts.
    It was his favorite hunting rifle for deer, and elk. He almost lost it, along with his wife, when they got caught in a snowstorm while out hunting, and his wife quit and went back to the truck. But when he got there, she wasn't, and they searched for her for three days. It was a killing blizzard with drifts up to 12 feet in places. He was literally just getting ready to call her mother to make funeral arrangements when the sheriff drove up to the house to tell him they had found her. He told me he was really glad to get his rifle back, and his wife, too.
    Now, it's mine.
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    Stories like that usually don't end up that good . She was lucky to survive the conditions .

    Your #171 looks legit to me & not a replacement receiver . It is similar to #259 in Crown Jewels . Also , lucky that he kept all the parts . That is unusual !

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    She crawled into a small rock shelter that was open away from the wind, and only a few inches of snow blew in on her. The opening was so tiny she pushed herself all the way to the back of the shelter and just hunkered down. When the blizzard stopped and they were able to conduct a search, they found her through the use of a helicopter. The only injury she suffered was that there had been a pack rat nest made up of vegetation in the back recess of shelter and her husband spent many an hour pulling prickly pear thorns from her derriere. Down here in Texas, in a similar situation, she would have been greeted by a nest of rattlesnakes.
    And, yes, her husband never threw anything away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swede View Post
    That is OK . We will just have to wait until August . Not likely I will remember it , so I will leave it up to you , if you are interested .

    So , you have CG 1898 #895 and CG 1901 S.895 ????????
    I got that tacfoley2 has a CG 1898 in m/38 configuration, s/n 896. Foudufoot has CG 1898 in m/96 configuration s/n 895.

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    Yes , that is correct . Sequential M96 serial numbers #895 & #896 .

    The S.895 is from memory of a past thread . Foudufoot has a school carbine #S.895 & a M96 #895 .

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    Quote Originally Posted by foudufoot View Post
    Not until August. The 1898 is already crated and in storage.
    That makes me very nervous. I hope in a climate controlled storage in PA and not stored in Houston.
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhva View Post
    That makes me very nervous. I hope in a climate controlled storage in PA and not stored in Houston.
    Yes. Each rifle cleaned and oiled liberally prior to crating. Climate controlled storage in a top-secret high-security facility in PA. I will move the crates myself to Houston, directly into our new home where they will be uncrated and moved indoors under the cover of darkness and the watchful eye of my two trained attack beagles. Just in case Mike Augustine tries to follow us..
    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swede View Post
    Yes , that is correct . Sequential M96 serial numbers #895 & #896 .

    The S.895 is from memory of a past thread . Foudufoot has a school carbine #S.895 & a M96 #895 .
    Yes. Good memory Swede!

    Here are pics of tac's #896 m38:

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    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foudufoot View Post
    Just in case Mike Augustine tries to follow us..
    I see what you did there.

    This move of yours had better be worth it. I'm finding it to be a major inconvenience, myself. I was rather comfortable in the bushes by the pool and now I have to look for new hiding places.

    It won't all be bad.

    The plus side is warmer winters, the down side is hotter summers. I may be forced to use the spare bedroom, occasionally.

    I try not to get to discouraged by your seemingly endless supply of good health, but rest assured I'm in it for the long haul.

    foudufoot's offical stalker

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    @ Herra Foudoffot - Thank you sooooooooo much for posting my pics! Swede - you can see a very fine sling there, can you not?

    It is shooting about 2" groups at 1 o'clock on an 8" Shoot-n-See. That's why I need the foresight adjuster....

    It would be a wonderful thing to have the two guns together some time, don't you think?

    Best to all

    tac
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    Quote Originally Posted by foudufoot View Post
    Yes. Good memory Swede!

    Here are pics of tac's #896 m38:

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    Gentlemen, I hate to be the party pooper but I see a beautiful m/96 not m/38???

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    Quote Originally Posted by box View Post
    Gentlemen, I hate to be the party pooper but I see a beautiful m/96 not m/38???
    Correct you are. Keen-eyed are you. Mistake made was, back a couple of posts.

    tac
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    Quote Originally Posted by box View Post
    Gentlemen, I hate to be the party pooper but I see a beautiful m/96 not m/38???
    I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it's the "extra long" M38.

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    Here is my lowest M96.
    Swede do you think all 1898 receivers (M96 and M94) were from the same lot and just made into different guns?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 000_0001_0001 (Large).JPG  

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    Yes , I would think production of receivers were all from the same batch & pulled from stock to make rifles or carbines . I have a few 1898 rifles & carbines , but the markings on the bottom are different on each . However , none are consecutive & that is the reason I ask for photos of #895 & #896 . We are thinking the marks are from the man doing the work or each specific operation in the assembly process . There could easily be several men doing the same operation , so maybe #895 & #896 are not the same ? Then , again , they may be marks from inspecting the machine work at a certain point in production ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by box View Post
    Gentlemen, I hate to be the party pooper but I see a beautiful m/96 not m/38???
    I had the same idea but thought tac might be using a wide angle lens....
    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley2 View Post
    @ Herra Foudoffot - Thank you sooooooooo much for posting my pics! Swede - you can see a very fine sling there, can you not?

    It is shooting about 2" groups at 1 o'clock on an 8" Shoot-n-See. That's why I need the foresight adjuster....

    It would be a wonderful thing to have the two guns together some time, don't you think?

    Best to all

    tac
    I'm happy to post pictures of such a fine specimen! They would look very good together. Yours looks to be in very nice condition as well. Mine has the original walnut stock, in very good condition too. I need to take some good outdoor pictures of it when I get to Houston. That will be my first assignment when I uncrate it and to take it apart so we can compare the receiver markings with yours... or maybe I should just put it on the back patio and let Mike take pictures with his telephoto lens...
    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    One more thing....be careful with the big box marked Fragile. Its the one with the air holes in the lid.

    Do me a favor and don't stack boxes on top and please load it last.

    Poking some pizza slices in the holes would be appreciated too.
    foudufoot's offical stalker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Augustine View Post
    One more thing....be careful with the big box marked Fragile. Its the one with the air holes in the lid.

    Do me a favor and don't stack boxes on top and please load it last.

    Poking some pizza slices in the holes would be appreciated too.
    You mean the really really heavy one?
    "Shoot straight you bastards! Don't make a mess of it!"

    Lt. Harry "Breaker" Morant, February 27, 1902, Pretoria, South Africa.

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    This thread leads me to a question which may be slightly OT, but not too far.

    I had always thought that Swedish military rifle and carbine serial numbers were assigned separately, but were not duplicated within the two groups. I vaguely remember reading, for example, that different blocks of rifle numbers were assigned to Mauser and CG to avoid duplication. This would have made it possible for the Swedish military to easily inventory and track weapons, since rifles and carbines are obviously different and could be listed separately. Rifles made by Mauser around 1900 for FSR use could re-use numbers since they would not be inventoried by the military.

    Since Mauser made slightly more than 12,0000 carbines in 1895, CG made carbines made in 1898 would have started with the next available, or later number, if duplication were to be avoided. It seems based on this thread that the CG carbines started numbering over again with one or close to it. This would leave around 12,0000 carbines with the same number. Were there actually two sets of carbine numbers, Mauser and CG? If so, do we think that Swedish military records kept track of them by listing both serial number and origin?
    Last edited by vangulik; 03-06-2012 at 09:25 AM.

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    The 1895 , M94 Mauser carbines were numbered 1-12,000 , plus an additional 160 Kammarkarbines ( serial number unknown at this point in time ) .

    The Carl Gustaf M94 carbines were numbered 1-113,xxx ( 1898-1932 ) .

    Some unknown number of Carl Gustaf Karmmarkarbines were numbered K.1 - K.193 ( 1898 - 1901 ) and possibly more that have not turned up to date ( 10 examples known in this serial range ) .

    There were 1901 dated Carl Gustaf School carbines numbered S.1 - S.1161 ( 23 examples known to date ) .
    One 1903 dated School carbine known with serial number " S.1178 " .

    Carl Gustaf M96 rifles were numbered 1 - 19xxx and then 59xxx - 517xxx ( 1898-193x ) . The gap was left for 40,000 1899/1900 Mauser M96 rifles . The additional 5000 , Mauser 1900 M96 FSR rifles were numbered 1-5000 .

    The HVA M38 rifles started with serial number 600,000 and went over 705xxx .
    Last edited by swede; 03-06-2012 at 10:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swede View Post
    The 1895 , M94 Mauser carbines were numbered 1-12,000 , plus an additional 160 Kammarkarbines ( serial number unknown at this point in time ) .

    The Carl Gustaf M94 carbines were numbered 1-113,xxx ( 1898-1932 ) .

    Some unknown number of Carl Gustaf Karmmarkarbines were numbered K.1 - K.193 ( 1898 - 1901 ) and possibly more that have not turned up to date ( 10 examples known in this serial range ) .

    There were 1901 dated Carl Gustaf School carbines numbered S.1 - S.1161 ( 23 examples known to date ) .

    Carl Gustaf M96 rifles were numbered 1 - 19xxx and then 59xxx - 517xxx ( 1898-193x ) . The gap was left for 40,000 1899/1900 Mauser M96 rifles . The additional 5000 , Mauser 1900 M96 FSR rifles were numbered 1-5000 .

    The HVA M38 rifles started with serial number 600,000 and went over 705xxx .
    Thanks very much. This detailed information is much appreciated.

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