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  1. #1
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    Default Pyrodex vs Triple 7

    I'm still waiting for my Remington Navy to arrive, so I haven't actually fired any of these powders yet, although I did wrap up 2 samples in paper & lit them to see if there was any noticeable difference between the 2 just burning some - both flared up the same, smelled about the same, and no big difference in the the residue.

    Has anyone compared the 2 powders for level of fouling & revolver accuracy? I've used BP in the past, & are these 2 powders any cleaner?
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
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  2. #2

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    BP is easier to clean and more reliable plus BP is nowhere near as corrosive as the substitutes. Add that to the fact that, if properly kept dry and cool it will still be just as powerful in 50 years as it was when it was new (substitutes deteriorate with age) and there is no comparison. Use black powder.

  3. #3
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    Pyrodex is said to be a somewhat modified version of black powder, albeit with a formulation that needs a hot cap to set it off - 600F or so. It also needs a VERY thorough clean-up - never mind that the blurb says it's an 'easy clean' - else your gun WILL corrode, and severely.

    Triple 7 is actually based on totally different chemistry, and is really a pretty strange kind of sugar - your nose might be off a bit, but to me it smells likes a fire in molasses plant after shooting a cylinder-load of it, and it leaves a tacky/sticky residue. It, too, needs hot caps to avoid b----angs. On the plus side it cleans up with water - nothing more or less is needed.

    I'd echo the opinion of the previous poster - opened tubs of subs lose power at a frighteningly noticeable rate, at least, they do in the UK's rather dank climate. BP does not, as we proved a few years back when we successfully fired off a loaded gun that had been hanging over a fireplace since 1897.

    Neither have the smell or the romance of the real stuff, and both cost more.

    tac
    Last edited by tacfoley2; 03-12-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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  4. #4
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    taste triple 7 and see if it tastes sweet.

    blackpowder is a hell of a lot more corrosive than T7!

    If you use T7 just remember that it has more power "15% higher" than pyrodex- goex 2f, so reduce your charge.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGander View Post
    blackpowder is a hell of a lot more corrosive than T7!
    I wouldn't count on it, certainly won't argue the point. Especially with a man that can eat substitutes. Yummmmm ...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    BP is easier to clean and more reliable plus BP is nowhere near as corrosive as the substitutes. Add that to the fact that, if properly kept dry and cool it will still be just as powerful in 50 years as it was when it was new (substitutes deteriorate with age) and there is no comparison. Use black powder.
    I still have a couple of cans of BP, but once they're gone, I know of nobody anywhere within driving distance who sells BP. The Hazmat fee is a little more than I want to pay & is only worthwhile for purchasing quantities far in excess of what I'll ever use.

    "Cheaper" BP just ain't real in my world anymore, while the substitutes are readily available. That was the basis of my inquiry.

    What is the preferred elixir used for cleaning up after Pyrodex?
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  7. #7
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    same as real black powder. Warm soapy water

  8. #8
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    With Pyrodex you must clean it immediately after shooting or you won't be able to cycle the action the following day. Made that mistake once with an 1860 Colt copy.

    Since not many dealers stock Goex in my area and when they do it's sold before I knew it arrived, I've become a fan of American Pioneer Powder. Not the first choice in accurate load development but it will suffice. All the boom, all the smoke. None of the filth, and you can wait a bit before having to clean. It will also let you shoot a few extra cylinders full before mucking up a revolver.
    Pyrodex fouls the workings in as little as 2-3 cylinder cycles.
    Using APP in rifles I easily get 20 shots off before having to swab the barrel. In 45 Colt and in my Ruger Old Army I get almost 40 rounds off before things start to feel sticky.

    Basically I feel the cons with synthetics are as follows:

    Triple Seven is known for its crud ring and extra potency which needs to be kept in mind. Not a true volume to volume measurement.
    Pyrodex is known for corrosion and at times tough fouling in revolvers.
    APP has shown some inconsistent velocities from lot to lot and has a shorter shelf life once opened.

    No synthetic has been proven better than true BP yet. They all have their redeeming qualities but BP is the most consistent.

  9. #9

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    Most consistent and easiest to clean.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGander View Post
    taste triple 7 and see if it tastes sweet.

    blackpowder is a hell of a lot more corrosive than T7!

    If you use T7 just remember that it has more power "15% higher" than pyrodex- goex 2f, so reduce your charge.
    I didn't say that Triple 7 was sugar as in the stuff you put in your coffee - I said that it is sugar-based - please look up the meaning of the chemical description of a sugar.

    Shooting it this afternoon in my ROA it STILL left a sticky residue.

    And it STILL smelt like a fire in a molasses plant.

    tac
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  11. #11
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    I go back a ways playing with the Holy Black and the Subs.
    Tried Pyrodex and 777 few years back when I was still chasing Hogs.
    When APP Gold Sticks was introduced I switched . I took up Cowboying few years back
    APP Powder was a natural choice to make White Smoke.
    00
    "A Man's got to have a Code, a Creed to Live By, No Matter his Job"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZshooter View Post
    I still have a couple of cans of BP, but once they're gone, I know of nobody anywhere within driving distance who sells BP. The Hazmat fee is a little more than I want to pay & is only worthwhile for purchasing quantities far in excess of what I'll ever use.

    "Cheaper" BP just ain't real in my world anymore, while the substitutes are readily available. That was the basis of my inquiry.

    What is the preferred elixir used for cleaning up after Pyrodex?
    Not sure what part of this Arizona Desert you hail from, but Thunderstick Trading Company (1125 N Jefferson Ave, basically Speedway and Craycroft) in Tucson carries BP. Only one I know of who does. Good people. Good luck,

    grey

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
    Not sure what part of this Arizona Desert you hail from, but Thunderstick Trading Company (1125 N Jefferson Ave, basically Speedway and Craycroft) in Tucson carries BP. Only one I know of who does. Good people. Good luck,

    grey
    Thanks! Good info - I've got family in Tucson & this place would be worth a visit next time I'm down there.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZshooter View Post
    Thanks! Good info - I've got family in Tucson & this place would be worth a visit next time I'm down there.
    You ever get the chance to stop in on Thunderstick Trading Company? How was it, did they have everything you needed?

    grey

  15. #15
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    Don't you have fire cracker factories in your area. I get my powder from such a factory. Its not swiss powder, but it is more important to get an even quality, and find the load that suits you

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbw View Post
    Don't you have fire cracker factories in your area. I get my powder from such a factory. Its not swiss powder, but it is more important to get an even quality, and find the load that suits you
    Most fire crackers are illegal here. I stand corrected they changed the law but most are still illegal.;

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...ona-11-30-2010
    PHOENIX - Fireworks haven't been legal in Arizona for more than 50 years -- until December 1. For the first time in decades, the sale of some fireworks will be allowed....

    ...We also asked him about the fire dangers, but the company says Arizonans shouldn't be worried -- because the fireworks that are now legal are what the company calls "safe and sane" fireworks -- like spinners, fountains, sparklers, and other little poppers.
    Fireworks that shoot up in the air or explode are not legal.
    Also, fireworks use can be regulated by cities -- the law allows cities to ban the use of fireworks even though they can be sold everywhere if the buyer is age 16 or older. Many valley cities have chosen to do so.
    Fire departments warn all fireworks are a big threat if used incorrectly, especially in our dry desert climate.

    grey
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    or here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyS3CEIbpJo

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
    Most fire crackers are illegal here. I stand corrected they changed the law but most are still illegal.;

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...ona-11-30-2010
    PHOENIX - Fireworks haven't been legal in Arizona for more than 50 years -- until December 1. For the first time in decades, the sale of some fireworks will be allowed....

    ...We also asked him about the fire dangers, but the company says Arizonans shouldn't be worried -- because the fireworks that are now legal are what the company calls "safe and sane" fireworks -- like spinners, fountains, sparklers, and other little poppers.
    Fireworks that shoot up in the air or explode are not legal.
    Also, fireworks use can be regulated by cities -- the law allows cities to ban the use of fireworks even though they can be sold everywhere if the buyer is age 16 or older. Many valley cities have chosen to do so.
    Fire departments warn all fireworks are a big threat if used incorrectly, especially in our dry desert climate.

    grey
    Within about 72 hours of passing the bill to legalize fireworks in AZ, most communities declared it illegal to use them - you can BUY "fireworks" (well, not the real, 'splody ones, just the sparkler & spinner thingies), you just can't actually USE them.

    The fun stuff like bottle rockets & M-80's remain unavailable.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  18. #18
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    Most of the funny fireworks are illigal here too. The guy I get the powder from, is a profesional Pyro technician, like the guys who makes the shows at new year, and in Tivoli in Copenhagen.

  19. #19
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    I wouldn't think a fieworks company would sell powder to an individual over here. It's been a tightly regulated industry, especially in the aftermath of 9/11. Solicitation to purchase may even result in being reported.

  20. #20
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    We have to have a special license to be in possession of blackpowder, without, they won't sell you powder. To get that license, you have to be member og a blackpowder club for a least 2 year, until you have your own license, you buy the powder you use on the day from the club, on the range.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyheadedguy View Post
    You ever get the chance to stop in on Thunderstick Trading Company? How was it, did they have everything you needed?

    grey
    Got down to Tucson last month & Dad & I went to Thunderstick. For a tiny little hole-in-the-wall place, they've got an amazing variety of stuff crammed into that narrow little building.

    I got some BP and also a can of American Pioneer Powder - tried it in several pistols & also the Gallagher Carbine & I think that can will last a long time - got inconsistent results thru .36, .44 & the .54 rifle. While it DOES burn pretty cleanly, it's best used in an emergency when faced with the only other alternative being a sharp stick. I tried several different loads, wads & not, roundballs & Minie Balls, & the stuff is at the bottom of the power scale for all BP substitutes. No matter the price, I wouldn't recommend it, unless you already use it & are satisfied with the results.

    BTW - I reformulated my ball lube to a tallow + crisco + beeswax mix & also use a paper wad over the powder, some ball lube, and then seat the ball . I can shoot all day long without needing to either swab the barrel or get any crud build-up. A lot less lube is required, performance is superb and NO crud build-up.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZshooter View Post
    Got down to Tucson last month & Dad & I went to Thunderstick. For a tiny little hole-in-the-wall place, they've got an amazing variety of stuff crammed into that narrow little building. ...

    I was amazed at what was in that tiny hole in the wall store with 3 parking spaces if you park on the street too. Real nice people. I started to set up a trade with them with some BP stuff my sister sent me that should have gone with my Dad's BP rifle and they were quite willing to help with the trade. I think though I may wait and see if I might get something that needs it. Their willingness to work with me really impressed me.

    I plan on going back there for my BP and my BP accessories. We have so few specialty stores down here and we keep losing some everyday it seems. Please spread the word, lets keep Thunderstick Trading Company and other locally privately own businesses in business. They have enough problems with key members of the Federal Government openly against them

  23. #23
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    Here is what you guys need to try. Trust me when I tell you it is a God send for black powder rifles and pistols.
    http://www.blackhorn209.com/

    The only issue is it is hard to ignite. I am not sure a regular cap will set it off but it is a great powder for 209 ignition stytems. I can shoot my ML all season and never clean the barrel. The residue is hydoscopic but it is not corrosive per se. You clean with regular smokless powder solvent, I use Kroil, no water needed. I have been shooting BP rifles since I was 16, back in 1976, and this stuff is fantastic. The residue, what little there is, is soft and moist right after you shoot so if you reload right then there is little to no resistance in loading. If you wait till later to reload the residue will get a bit crusty but nothing like BP, 777 or Pryodex. Over the years I have progressed with the industry going from BP to Pyrodex and then to 777 pelts. Last year I switched to BH209 and have never looked back. Now granted, I have not tried to shoot BH209 in any of my side lock rifles but I think if you used a small amount of priming, maybe 5 grains of holy black or Pyrodex under the nipple, you could then load a regular charge of BH209 on top and ignite just fine.

    The biggest advantage is there is no crud ring at all in the barrel. This means you never have to clean between shots to keep your accuracy. In my CVA Accura 50 cal I can shoot holes touching at 100 yards. You won't be disappointed in BH209 if you can get it to light off.

  24. #24
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    Just as a power reference, my load in the SS CVA Accura 50 cal with 27" Bergara barrel is a 300gr Rem. Core-lok in a Harvester Crush Rib sabot over 84 grains weighted/ equivilant 120gr volumetric load of BH209. My Chrony chrongraph says that 300gr bullet is going 2050fps 30 feet in front of my barrel. I shot two and killed two does with it last season at 200 yards and had complete pass threws.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokepole50 View Post
    Here is what you guys need to try. Trust me when I tell you it is a God send for black powder rifles and pistols.
    http://www.blackhorn209.com/

    The only issue is it is hard to ignite. I am not sure a regular cap will set it off but it is a great powder for 209 ignition stytems. I can shoot my ML all season and never clean the barrel. The residue is hydoscopic but it is not corrosive per se. You clean with regular smokless powder solvent, I use Kroil, no water needed. I have been shooting BP rifles since I was 16, back in 1976, and this stuff is fantastic. The residue, what little there is, is soft and moist right after you shoot so if you reload right then there is little to no resistance in loading. If you wait till later to reload the residue will get a bit crusty but nothing like BP, 777 or Pryodex. Over the years I have progressed with the industry going from BP to Pyrodex and then to 777 pelts. Last year I switched to BH209 and have never looked back. Now granted, I have not tried to shoot BH209 in any of my side lock rifles but I think if you used a small amount of priming, maybe 5 grains of holy black or Pyrodex under the nipple, you could then load a regular charge of BH209 on top and ignite just fine.

    The biggest advantage is there is no crud ring at all in the barrel. This means you never have to clean between shots to keep your accuracy. In my CVA Accura 50 cal I can shoot holes touching at 100 yards. You won't be disappointed in BH209 if you can get it to light off.
    I've seen the Blackhorn209 around town. It specifies on the can that a #209 type primer is needed to set it off. As I recall, it costs about $27 per can & is 6 ounces short of a pound. Doesn't seem to be suitable for my cap & ball revolver applications & the high pricetag for a little clean-up convenience.

    As it stands right now, with my formulation of ball lube and either black powder or Pyrodex, I can exceed 100 rounds fired without need to swab barrel, cylinder face or chambers.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

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