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  1. #1
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    Default No Date on M91/30 barrel shank.

    Hello,

    I came across a M91/30 that does not appear to have had a date stamped on the barrel shank. I do not currently have access to check the tang date.

    Anyone else seen another 91/30 like this?




  2. #2
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    I'd say definitely wartime by the way it looks. So sometimes in the 40's. I don't really think its rare or something i would buy but if you like it, get it.
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  3. #3
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    Default

    When I saw the thread title I was thinking it must have been scrubbed. It isn't, though, as you can still clearly see the lathe marks. Interesting.
    Plastic stocks: the ricer wing of the milsurp world.








  4. #4
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    Default

    Looks like a '42 or '43 judging by the rough machining on the reciever. Strange, just looks like they forgot to stamp the date.

  5. #5
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    Default

    to me the one picture looks like it has a faint 1 between the 1 and 2. Maybe a '41 Izhevsk
    "A liberal is someone who feels a great debt
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  6. #6
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    Default

    Right now I am not able to take the rifle apart to check the tang as it is not mine and its is at a local shop. However, I will have access to it at the end of the month. I find it strange that there is no date. The group of rifles it came in are dated from 1941 to 1943 and are all refurbished. This was not the best of the bunch, but the lack of date made it stand out.

  7. #7
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    Default

    I was just shooting this one yesterday, thought about starting a thread on this very subject.

    Mine has a receiver date of 31. Figured the barrel was too?
    Shank appears to have been ground on, then sanded to seriously wavy on a lathe. Refurbed and given a new (?) serial number.

    I'm thinking yours has been re-turned on a lathe during refurbishment, taking off the original number. I have several examples of this on 91/30s, some by the Finns. Our two have had the most metal removed that I've seen, completely eliminating the date.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
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    I personally believe the OP's rifle was just never date stamped-the barrel shank is too close to the diameter of the receiver to have had much metal cut off in a second run through the lathe. The Tula in the pics looks scrubbed on a buffing wheel.
    Plastic stocks: the ricer wing of the milsurp world.








  9. #9
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    Dec 1969
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    Default

    If you look at the serial number, just under the "y" and to the left of the refurbishment mark, there is a small set of crossed hammers with a crescent under them. Anyone know what they might be? So far, 7.62x54r.net shows them as unknown.
    Last edited by vintagerifle; 06-05-2012 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eula520 View Post
    Looks like a '42 or '43 judging by the rough machining on the reciever. Strange, just looks like they forgot to stamp the date.
    I agree. The late 1941s are not that rough.

    There was a no date M38 on the trader several years ago. It looked like a '42 or '43 as well. AIRC, It sold for double the going refurb price at the time.

    The tang markings will be interesting.
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

  11. #11
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    I have seen the "crossed hammers" before, if that is what they are. I believe in a circle....some kind of inspection marking if I recall.

    This is another 91/30, a Finn rework that was turned/filed/sanded. Can't think of any other method that could have been used other than a lathe. Just too smooth of a surface finish and even diameter/contour. Some are smooth and polished while others show coarse turning marks. I must have 6 or 8 that are very obviously re-turned, re-blued, then partially re-stamped.

    Those machinists were good. Look at how they milled stamps off of the top of hex receivers - and they don't appear uneven.
    I have an MO marked one that is smooth except for the "MO" and the second date.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #12
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    Default

    The receiver is actually straight and does not have an indentation like the photo below shows. The indentation is caused by the flash and glare from the display case.



    Does the mark in the photo mean anything? I know the photos are not clear. I am pushing my luck, at the shop, using a cell phone camera to get these photos.

    The stock also has the crossed hammers stamped on the right side. I do believe it is a refurbishment inspection mark.

    Thank you for all your help.
    Last edited by vintagerifle; 06-06-2012 at 09:35 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default

    This is the best photo I can get of the tang date. She is a 1943 and was never marked on the barrel.



    Closeup of the crossed hammers on the barrel shank:



    Crossed hammers on the stock:

    Last edited by vintagerifle; 06-09-2012 at 08:42 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default

    I picked up a 43 date that is the near twin to that one. No date on the barrel, but 43 on the tang.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagerifle View Post
    The group of rifles it came in are dated from 1941 to 1943 and are all refurbished
    See if you can find a '41 Tula mixed in with the bunch... that'd definitely be worth the time to acquire...
    Signed,

    Fatherandersonthepaladin
    Purveyor of fine Mosins, Hater of Bubba, and Pantsless Evil Dictator of Eggplants.

  16. #16
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    Above and between the 1 and the 2 in the serial number looks to be the vertical bar of the 'r'. It looks to me like the rifle had a VERY shallowly stamped date, and it got eradicated during the refurb process.

    I have a 1945-built M44 with a very shallow date, and just about ANY cleanup work on that area before a refinish job could easily eradicate it.

  17. #17
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    Default

    Here are a few photos using a better camera. The mark above the 1 and 2 appears to be a ding/scratch in the metal. Click images to make them larger.





    Is it possible it is a cutdown M91 barrel?

    Last edited by vintagerifle; 06-10-2012 at 08:38 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagerifle View Post
    Here are a few photos using a better camera. The mark above the 1 and 2 appears to be a ding/scratch in the metal. Click images to make them larger.
    I think the probable answer to what you want to know is this:

    Is this rifle unusual - yes
    Is it currently a valuable piece to a Mosin collector - no
    Might it be someday - possibly - no one knows
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagerifle View Post
    The mark above the 1 and 2 appears to be a ding/scratch in the metal
    Quite frankly, it looks like a small part of a triangle stamp of unknown content. I'm thinking it's just another proof.

    As for rarity/value. Yeah, it's definitely rare, but value is highly subjective on something like this and I just don't know any collectors that would go bananas enough to spend a small mint on it. Maybe when Mosins become as sought after as Mausers, but until then I just don't see it happening.
    Signed,

    Fatherandersonthepaladin
    Purveyor of fine Mosins, Hater of Bubba, and Pantsless Evil Dictator of Eggplants.

  20. #20
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    Default

    Thanks for the information. Just was wondering if it was common or not. Just thought it was an oddball as I had not seen one without a date on the barrel. For the most part it is just a common 1943 M91/30 without a barrel date. It has been added to my oddball collection. May just get what I paid for it someday .

    Once again, thank you for all your help.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagerifle View Post
    Thanks for the information. Just was wondering if it was common or not. Just thought it was an oddball as I had not seen one without a date on the barrel. For the most part it is just a common 1943 M91/30 without a barrel date. It has been added to my oddball collection. May just get what I paid for it someday .

    Once again, thank you for all your help.
    Oh I'm sure you could get what you paid for it now. Plenty of folks are interested in it for the novelty factor. I just wouldn't expect a huge profit on it.
    Signed,

    Fatherandersonthepaladin
    Purveyor of fine Mosins, Hater of Bubba, and Pantsless Evil Dictator of Eggplants.

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