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  1. #1
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    Question H&R Pardner OR Ted Williams Model 200? Now w/ PIX

    Hello, gentlemen
    I'm in the market for my first shotgun, and since it'll be primarily for home defense, I'm wanting a 12 gauge. My local Academy Sports has an H&R Pardner Protector; a coworker has a Ted Williams Sears Model 200 and will sell for about the same price as the H&R. I don't know which one to buy! I looked over the 200 tonight and its in great condition, said he only fired it maybe 4 times since he bought it. Which would you recommend??? Thanks in advance, guys!
    Last edited by ilducecorvo88; 10-14-2012 at 11:31 PM. Reason: changed title

  2. #2
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    The Sears model 200 shotgun is technically

    a Winchester model 1200 . Made by Winchester

    for sears . A very nice shotgun . In the condition

    you describe should be a fine reliable weapon

    for general use . Including HP , hunting , target

    etc . etc . etc .



    FIVESHOT

  3. #3
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    The H&R Parner protector is made in China by Qiqihar Hawk Industries Co., Ltd., a subsidiary of China North Industries Corporation. Commonly referred to as Norinco, China North Industries is a major producer of inexpensive SKS and AK-pattern rifles. Qiqihar Hawk makes only shotguns, including clones of the Remington 870 sold under the H&R name. They also make an autoloading shotgun, a couple of over/unders and an array of police shotguns. Apparently they aren't the culprits in the Winchester 1887/1897 fiascos.

    Strangely enough H&R is an affiliate of Remington, and is competing with its parent company's US made shotguns with a cheap import!

    The Pardner design seems good, as expected, and its a fairly heavy all steel gun, but China isn't exactly famous for quality. I'd get the Sears/Winchester unless you have a lot of faith in the dealer taking care of any teething problems on the H&R.
    I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post

    The Pardner design seems good, as expected, and its a fairly heavy all steel gun, but China isn't exactly famous for quality. I'd get the Sears/Winchester unless you have a lot of faith in the dealer taking care of any teething problems on the H&R.
    Say that to a MAK 90 owner.
    I have the turkey version of the Pardner Pump, and I think it is a great shotgun. I have no experience with the Winchester in question, but I am sure it is a great shotgun as well, but it also has a pretty long barrel and no more capacity than the PP, while the PP is short enough to handle indoors if you ever need to and uses most of the same parts as a Remington 700. I have also read that the steel in the receiver is of a better quality as well.
    I was considering a Maverick 88 Security 8 as well when I bought mine. 20" barrel and 8 shot magazine just SCREAMS home defense.

    There are two schools of thought on the 'net about the Pardner Pump: "it is a great shotgun", and "it was made in China and you are supporting their military". Nobody has problems with the gun itself.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the quick responses guys! I'm leaning toward the TW, I'd be helping a friend instead of a multi-million dollar corporation;

  6. #6
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    IMHO, the Ted Williams is the way to go but is a $150 shotgun.

  7. #7
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    Had one of these Ted Williams models made by Winchester back in early 70s in 20 gauge. Functioned great and had Walnut stock with adj. choke up front. Receiver is aluminum in case you did not know.

  8. #8
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    I'm picking up the Ted Williams 12 gauge on Monday. American made, suits my needs, and I can help a friend. Thanks so much for your advice, fellas!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oli View Post
    Say that to a MAK 90 owner.
    I am a MAK90 owner!

    The AK system is designed to work regardless of minor problems, like how much vodka Ivan the gunsmith had the night before. Tolerances are sloppy and brute force methods including a large gas piston system, heavy bolt carrier, and long, lightly stressed springs, is used to get the cartridges chambered, fired, and the empties ejected. The Chinese AKs are even more so, with a thicker 1.6mm receiver to avoid the heat treat problems of the 1mm Warsaw Pact sheet metal, and it seems to make the MAK 90 easier to shoot, more accurate, and more reliable.

    Pump action shotguns are, believe it or not, harder to get working right and less tolerant of mistakes than the AK. They are lighter, smaller, and have some stringent ergonomic requirements that don't apply to the AK. That the Pardner is considered pretty heavy is an indication that Qiqihar Hawk Industries beefed it up, maybe to overcome quality problems. The equivalent Remington 870 Special Ops pump is a half pound lighter despite an adjustable buttstock. And Remington 870s were always heavier than the competition, anyway.
    I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilducecorvo88 View Post
    I'm picking up the Ted Williams 12 gauge on Monday. American made, suits my needs, and I can help a friend. Thanks so much for your advice, fellas!
    Well done sir !

    These are indeed a 1200 Winchester (receiver rear shaped differently) . A well proven design . I assume it has a 28" field barrel , but keep in mind that 1300 Win barrels interchange if you want to add a short riot or deer length barrel .

    One tip , the ejector is a long "sheet metal" spring that lays along the left inside receiver with the tip extending into a corresponding groove inside the barrel . Be careful when reinstalling the barrel after cleaning to align the spring tip with the barrel . I've seen these installed carelessly causing the ejector to break free from the pin holding it (towards the rear) . Later 1300's were redesigned to solve this .

    Looking forward to a few photos of it .
    mitch

    Please support Crimson Trace grips . They support our troops .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy sajer View Post
    but keep in mind that 1300 Win barrels interchange if you want to add a short riot or deer length barrel .
    is it 1300, or 1200 barrels? I might wanna put a shorter barrel on and wanna look under the right thing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilducecorvo88 View Post
    is it 1300, or 1200 barrels? I might wanna put a shorter barrel on and wanna look under the right thing.
    Both will fit . 1300 was just a "Gen 2" / "new and improved" model . The barrels interchange .
    mitch

    Please support Crimson Trace grips . They support our troops .

  13. #13
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    so if I, for instance, wanted to swap out the fore end I can use a Model 1200/1300 fore end? Is it a direct fit or would it require a gunsmith?

  14. #14
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    I think that might be one of the differences . I know they have used different forend contours & lengths over the years . I think the action bar size was different depending on vintage . Just about any stock sets you buy today are going to be for the last production 1300's .

    Maybe another member will respond .
    mitch

    Please support Crimson Trace grips . They support our troops .

  15. #15
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    Glad you pointed this out Sajer. Currently have a Win.1300 Upland model in 12 gauge and have heard this spring ejector can be a weak spot. Have been using as a gun for upland bird and for deer using buckshot. Believe they are out of production not and trying to locate rifled tube for slugs as buckshot seems erratic. Nice light gun but it can give a kick with buckshot. Happen to know if anyone still makes a slug barrel for this gun.

  16. #16
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    Thumbs up Ted Williams FTW

    Picked up the Model 200 today before work. She's a beaut! Seller also threw in 39 assorted shells (some buck, some game). Here's some pix! And thanks again for the advice!

    Anybody feel like telling a shotgun noob how to work the variable choke on this thing? it turns and clicks, and unscrews from the barrel...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #17
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    few more pix...Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #18
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    Not sure what kind of variable choke it is. Polychoke less brake? Anyway should work pretty much the same as a Polychoke.

    http://www.poly-choke.com/InstructionPage.htm
    I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.

  19. #19
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    Very nice find ! These are well made . Looks like your's is in excellent condition

    As for the choke , screw it all the way on , not too tight . Then as you unscrew it you are opening the shot pattern . Should be "settings" for IC improved cylinder , M modified , F full .

    1-Do not fire it with the selector removed .
    2-Do not fire slugs .

    I don't think anyone is making barrels these days . There were enough barrels made though that they turn up for sale . Might try the auction sites . Personally I would want to pay $65-75 , maybe $100 for rifled .
    mitch

    Please support Crimson Trace grips . They support our troops .

  20. #20
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    so what choke setting would I want for Home Defense, using Winchester Super X 9-grain 00 buckshot?

  21. #21
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    IC / improved cylinder .
    mitch

    Please support Crimson Trace grips . They support our troops .

  22. #22
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    Thanks, Guy!

  23. #23
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    And many thanks for the pics. Wow does it bring back the memories. Mine was the exact same in 3 inch 20 gauge. I think I paid $125 back in 72 for it. Pretty good for walnut stock recoil pad and the disc for personalization on bottom of pistol grip on stock. makes a nice upland bird gun too.

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