M1 Carbine Prices

[Perplexed]

It seems that the prices on these carbines are creeping up into M1 Garand territory - I'm seeing asking prices of $600 for a nice Inland and on up well over $2000 for a minty non-Inland specimen. I must have missed a memo somewhere that said the carbine prices were to be raised Has something occurred that prompted these prices, or is it just the way things are? What does a nice Winchester-made carbine with mostly Winchester parts go for now - fair prices, not bloated auction prices, please - and what about an IBM specimen? TIA.

[SfcRet]

There are far more carbines now on the market, then there was ever before, what with the CMP selling them, and a bunch that were imported by CENTURY. However, carbine prices have not gone down in price. Why? because people have been paying those kinds of prices before, so they will continue to pay those prices now, so why even lower them. It's all about the $$$

it seems that the 600 dollars price range, is about average for a so called "mix-master". If it is a "desirable" manufaturer, ie WINCHESTER, RCOK-OLA, then exepct to pay more for it, regardless of what other makers parts it has in it.

I handpicked out a WINCHESTER carbine from the NORTH STORE not too long ago, that has a MW of 1, and the major parts are WINCHESTER, bolt, barrel, and of course the receiver, for 612 bucks. It probably wouldn't be too far fetched that I can sell that for more then what I bought it for, wihout having to do anything to it.

You might find a deal out there, for 4 or 5 hundred, but you really have to look hard, and having luck on your side doesn't hurt either


if you think that buying a new production clone carbine, like AUTO-ORD. is going to be cheaper, think again, they are in the 600+ price range, and they won't go up in value like a USGI will.

[Orlando]

Prices seem to be the same to me. A $2000.00 carbine? Haven't saw any of those but anything in that range is a all correct unmolested carbine and they do demand a high price

[Rob P.]

Only USGI Carbine I saw for sale at the local gun show last weekend was a mixmaster IBM, with blue sky on the barrel. Asking price was $650.00. It sold while I was walking the show. Not really interested as I have an Inland, and am more of a M1 Garand / M1903A3 shooter. But probably a good future investment.

Semper Fi, Rob

[reddog]

Prices have been climbing steadily the last couple of years. Gone are the $300 carbines. Mixmasters going for $600. An all correct (and I don't mean corrected in your basement) could bring $1,500-$2,500 depending on mfg and condition.

[cary]

My local big 5 has had an imported Inland mix-master for 999.00, so I guess my Blue Skies Winchester should be worth close to that.

[m1aman]

prices go up? wow!

[SfcRet]

An all correct (and I don't mean corrected in your basement) could bring $1,500-$2,500 depending on mfg and condition.

Got news for you, all the "correct" carbines out there, are the corrected basement ones. The last time a carbine was all "correct" was when it left the manuf. facility sixty some years ago. Once it hit the unit, parts break, wear out and get replaced, stocks get cracked. And then when they went to the first re-arsenal facility, they all became "uncorrected" right fast.

Those CMP "correct" Garands, people are paying big bucks for, were corrected at ANNISTON. A military firearm doesn't go through it's whole life with all the same parts that were put in by the manuf. , or get replaced with a certain manuf. made part or certain "drawing number" to that manuf. receiver or serial number range, at a rearsenal facility.

BTW, all those cartouched garand stocks that people are paying huge amounts of money for, in some cases close to what the entire rifle cost, don't think for one minue that it might be the "real deal". There is a guy on the net, who if you send him a stock, the manuf. name and serial number, and a few bucks, he will stamp the 'correct" cartouches for you on that. I am just wondering how many of the so called original cartouched stocks being peddled out there for huge bucks, are actually his work.


http://www.trfindley.com/pgsnstmpsm1.html

Quite honestly, a "correct" parts isn't going to make the rifle fire any better. You might impress some folks, but are you going to disassemble the rifle and show them each and every part to say, 'see this is correct for this rifle"?

I would rather spend the money and make the rifle "pretty" then spend money to buy a WINCHESTER part to replace a perfectly functional INLAND part, that no one is going to see anyway. of course YMMV

barrel condition is much more important then what parts it has in it, or what the stock looks like. You can always refinish the stock. You can't put back rifling or metal around the muzzle or the throat.

[prospector24]

+1 for your Sarge

But then I found a hand receipt in the magazine well of my M-1 marked to the 4077th Mess Kit Repair Company so you know it's never been fired and is 100% original! Only cleaned once a year for the IG Inspection. ROFLMAO

Cheers,

Bob

[m1aman]

right on. i hope to make a trip to anniston to get one of those correct versions very soon.

Got news for you, all the "correct" carbines out there, are the corrected basement ones. The last time a carbine was all "correct" was when it left the manuf. facility sixty some years ago. Once it hit the unit, parts break, wear out and get replaced, stocks get cracked. And then when they went to the first re-arsenal facility, they all became "uncorrected" right fast.

Those CMP "correct" Garands, people are paying big bucks for, were corrected at ANNISTON. A military firearm doesn't go through it's whole life with the same parts, or get replaced with a certain manuf. made part or certain "drawing number" to that manuf. receiver or serial number range.

[SfcRet]

+1 for your Sarge

But then I found a hand receipt in the magazine well of my M-1 marked to the 4077th Mess Kit Repair Company so you know it's never been fired and is 100% original! Only cleaned once a year for the IG Inspection. ROFLMAO

:D

[Orlando]

SOG has carbines, $495.00 for Inlands and $595.00 for Winchesters. Sounds about the same price as carbines ahve been for some time. They are Import marked and who knows the actual condition. Probably as beat up as their Garands

[Perplexed]

Sarge,

Thanks for posting that link to the fellow who has all the stamps for the stock cartouches. I see a lot of hoopla being lavished upon the stock cartouches on Gunbroker auctions for Garands and carbines, and I wondered if these cartouches could be a later addition. Now I know it's entirely possible

Thanks also for all the information regarding the CMP stores, timing, bore condition, and such!

[reddog]

Got news for you, all the "correct" carbines out there, are the corrected basement ones. The last time a carbine was all "correct" was when it left the manuf. facility sixty some years ago. Once it hit the unit, parts break, wear out and get replaced, stocks get cracked. And then when they went to the first re-arsenal facility, they all became "uncorrected" right fast.

Not to split hairs with you but there are carbines out there that have all of their original WW2 factory parts. I have one. It was bought by my friend's father in the early 50's and I bought it from my friend. Neither of these two gentlemen knew anything about correct or not correct and never touched it. The Inland has all original factory parts in WW2 configuration.

There are others out there also.

[Perplexed]

Not to split hairs with you but there are carbines out there that have all of their original WW2 factory parts. I have one. It was bought by my friend's father in the early 50's and I bought it from my friend. Neither of these two gentlemen knew anything about correct or not correct and never touched it. The Inland has all original factory parts in WW2 configuration.

There are others out there also.

Unless you know the carbine's provenance beyond a doubt, is it possible to tell whether a carbine has its as-issued-from-factory parts, or if the carbine has been corrected in recent times with original, correct parts?

[prospector24]

That's a good question that's going to get a variety of answers here.

My short answer is it is possible but that would vary both from individual to individual and from gun to gun.

The basic clue is whether or not all the parts have "matching wear". A new from the package (assuming you find one) widget 1234-56a that replaced the widget 1234-56d from last rebuild should stand out against the other well used parts of the subassembly that it was placed in. However, if someone has found an used widget and replaced it, it could match assuming equal use and wear or it could not match. And even that could fool an inexperience buyer/shooter/collector who armed with one of the "bibles" goes out in quest for a high dollar all matching museum grade collectable gun and is only looking for numbers.

As with most everything else in the milsurp world there is no definitive answer to this. It takes a lot of knowledge, experience, guile, research and just a little bit of sorcery to know the answer to this.

Cheers,

Bob

[reddog]

To answer your question here's the scenario. The rifle was obtained by my friend's father in the late 40's or early 50's. He wasn't a collector and people didn't fool with them that much back then like they do today. He owned it until he died about 10 years ago.

My friend inherited it from his deceased dad stuck it in a closet and then sold it to me because he didn't use it or wasn't interested in it. He doesn't know what you are talking about when you talk about correct carbines so HE wouldn't have corrected it.

Upon stripping it down I compared all of the parts to Ruth's book and yes, they all are correct for the year and make (Inland). They also have matching finish and wear patterns and it's in WW2 configuration.

Draw your own conclusions or doubt, I don't care.

[Perplexed]

Reddog, I wasn't doubting what you'd said about your carbine. My question was asked in the general sense: "If you didn't have the provenance like Reddog does then how would you know ..."

Sorry for the confusion.

[reddog]

No problem at all, you were perfectly correct in asking. And yes, you are correct in the fact I don't know 100% of it's entire history since it left the factory. I can only account for the last 55-60 years of its life. The rest you need to use your powers of sluething to determine if the age and wear patterns fit and I concluded there was a good chance this one escaped rebuild.

[DRB]

A lot of the carbines sold by the DCM in the 60s were new as manufactured. My father got an IBM that was 100% correct and in new condition. Firstthing he did was replace the flip sight with a better adjustable sight. I have found 3 reasonable as issued carbiens in the last 5 or 6 years that I believe either came from the DCM sales of the 60s or were liberated. 2 real early Inlands and a dandy Standard products. A friend has a very early Inland that his father brought back from Attu. Said the previous owner did not need it any more (KIA) so he shipped it home one piece at a time. It is all correct as manufactured and is really cool. A large number of carbines came home in duffle bags and they are almost all correct configuration. Do not assume every correct carbine is a restoration. The big telltale is the huge swage put on to hold the adjustable sight on or the shadow from a type 3 band. Even some of the imports of the late 80s were in as manufactured configuration having been used by another country they did not all get the upgrades US issued carbines got.

[Perplexed]

The big telltale is the huge swage put on to hold the adjustable sight on or the shadow from a type 3 band.

DRB, thanks for the information. Do you have any pictures of the swage or the shadow you mentioned?

[reddog]

Perplexed,
On the earlier ones with the flip sights they were originally staked in place. So when the Korean war upgrades were put on they had to unstake them and restake the adjustable sight in place. Then the "restorer" had to unstake the adjustable and put the flip sight back in creating another set of stake marks. I've seen pictures in books but don't have any on the web.

The type 3 band would cover part of the barrel where the bayonet lug was so when removed it would leave a lighter area where it covered the barrel. Stands to reason as the finish wouldn't age the same under the metal band.

[Perplexed]

Hmmm - thanks, Reddog. Pics would help, but I have an idea of what you're describing. The more you ask, the more you learn

[Cass]

Perplexed,
On the earlier ones with the flip sights they were originally staked in place. So when the Korean war upgrades were put on they had to unstake them and restake the adjustable sight in place. Then the "restorer" had to unstake the adjustable and put the flip sight back in creating another set of stake marks. I've seen pictures in books but don't have any on the web.

The type 3 band would cover part of the barrel where the bayonet lug was so when removed it would leave a lighter area where it covered the barrel. Stands to reason as the finish wouldn't age the same under the metal band.

That is exactly right. After you get an eye for the subtle differences the restorations become obvious. It is smart to be cautious, but if you assume that all are "restored" you will miss the real ones. I picked up a completely original (except sear) Winchester carbine in a pawn shop not too long ago. The seller thought he was really getting one over on me for $700, ha!

Cass

[El Bibliotecario]

A lot of the carbines sold by the DCM in the 60s were new as manufactured...

My DCM new-conditon carbine came from the govt arsenal in 1965 with a bayonet lug barrel band, flip safety, and adjustible rear sight. At the time I thought it was a good deal for $20, but now that I realize it wasn't 'correct,' I guess I really got screwed.

SFC (ret) wrote "Got news for you, all the "correct" carbines out there, are the corrected basement ones. The last time a carbine was all "correct" was when it left the manuf. facility sixty some years ago. Once it hit the unit, parts break, wear out and get replaced, stocks get cracked. And then when they went to the first re-arsenal facility, they all became "uncorrected" right fast."

I applaud the sarge throwing a bucket of cold realism on a hot topic. Those people scurrying about substituting parts to make their weapons correct put me in mind of an Asian surgeon I once read about who specialized in reinstalling hymens.

[tristan]

There's accuracy on both sides of this discussion. It is true that most of the carbines floating around today that are parts-correct are indeed restorations. However, reddog and Cass are dead right when they say that there also exist rare gems that have never been altered from the day that they left their manufacturer. I'm lucky enough to have two of the latter, a Quality Hardware and a Saginaw S'G'. If you've studied and handled enough carbines you can tell the difference between an original rifle vs. a restoration nearly immediately. An authentic example has a special aura about it that is a combination of its correct parts, original finish, wear patterns, and possession of those minor but crucial details that only study and experience can reveal. I've found exactly two such carbines in a dozen years of active collecting and I bought them immediately at the (reasonable) asking prices without negotiation. They are very uncommon if not outright rarities.

[BradB]

I have three carbines... one came off the beach at Peleliu (talked with the vet from Navy who picked it up and have a signed statement) and two from GB before the recent "popularity". One is pretty much unissued as made, the other is an Inland hand-stamp with some minor use. All are "correct" without touch ups.

[Perplexed]

two from GB before the recent "popularity".

Popularity? Do you mean caused by the CMP sales of Italian-return carbines?

[BradB]

CMP sales (and rumors of them coming) seem to have generated more interest in the higher end condition side.

[rgl3945]

Orest Michaels on the CMP site confirms they have thousands (his words) of carbines from Greece that they will get to eventually. This aside from the Italian carbines they are selling now.

[Orlando]

All depends on how you interpet Orest post.
He has been asked over and over the same old questions. Someoen asked about any carbines for the unteenth time over and someone else said asked Several thousand Carbines....or several thousand times you'll have to paste the same response?
Orest response was "yes"
So was the "yes" response to Several thousand Carbines.... or to several thousand times you'll have to paste the same response ?
Thats how rumors get started