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Thread: Mosin a Survival Rifle?
09-18-2012, 07:00 PM #1
Mosin a Survival Rifle?
Would a Mosin be a suitable survival rifle? With all these preppers/survivalist showing up I thought it would be a good topic to discuss. Personally I think it is to big of a caliber, tad on the heavy side as far as carry weight, with that said there is alot of pro's as well to a mosin, especially a M38 or M44 type rifle in a survival situation. Anyway, what do you guys think?
09-18-2012, 07:50 PM #2
If I were of a persuasion to have a "prepper" rifle, I'd gravitate toward something like an sks. I think a semiauto would have advantages.
However, IMO if things ever get to that stage, there's no hope anyway.Plastic stocks: the ricer wing of the milsurp world.
09-18-2012, 08:01 PM #3
09-18-2012, 08:13 PM #4
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09-18-2012, 08:18 PM #5
09-18-2012, 08:20 PM #6
09-18-2012, 08:27 PM #7
09-18-2012, 08:34 PM #8Silver Bullet Member
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interesting question the answer depends on your parameters for survival, are you just wanting something to kill some meat and pick off the occaisional mad max marauder? The mosin would be just fine. Think about the history of the rifle with the Finns, small groups out in the harshest survival environment you can imagine with meager supplies in groups of skiers that would disrupt and discourage the largest army on the face of the earth at the time against overwhelming odds. In the end the question is answered more by the survivor than the weapon. A drive to survive combined with knowledge and preparedness with an average weapon will last longer than a superior weapon with an inferior man.
09-18-2012, 08:37 PM #9Plastic stocks: the ricer wing of the milsurp world.
09-18-2012, 08:39 PM #10
09-18-2012, 08:40 PM #11
I would say yes. Uses less ammo in the long run. Very few moving parts, rugged, durable...You can keep Your SKS/AK...I for one will be hauling My Mosin with me to My fall back point...
..And Yes, I am a 22 Year Army Vet, Multiple Combat Deployments, Survival Trained...So My Opinion is an informed one...
09-18-2012, 08:47 PM #12
Depending on what you have to survive, the Mosin Nagant has merits. The rifle and its ammo are very affordable. One can buy a Mosin Nagant and have a rifle right away. If they waited until they saved enough for a high speed low drag rifle, they might be unarmed when TSHTF. They may also buy more than one. Mosins are simple, rugged and powerful. They would be well suited to arm a non gun oriented friend or family member and have them trained in minimum time.
09-18-2012, 08:55 PM #13
09-18-2012, 09:03 PM #14
Well it would be better than nothing and there are worse options I suppose. It is certainly less than ideal.
09-18-2012, 09:12 PM #15Senior Member
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09-18-2012, 09:14 PM #16
I'd me more likely to carry a Mosin than any other surplus bolt rifle, preferable a good PU sniper. Maybe an 8mm Mauser, but 7.62x54r is probably much more common nowadays. It would need to be paired with a decent .22 as most game would be small birds, squirrels, etc. and a reliable semiauto pistol or better yet a revolver.
09-18-2012, 10:06 PM #17
The only similar situation I had to deal with was the Martin Luther King riots in which hundreds of buildings were burned and many killed in urban chaos. I was 16 and guarded our family alone -my father overseas. I turned off all the lights to avoid giving targets, put all my family in an upstairs rear bedroom in the dark, and set up for myself a well-concealed hide in the dark by our porch, watching as cars of rioters with Molotov cocktails cruised the streets looking to burn out homes and businesses and loot others. I still remember the shotguns out the windows of the cars -a rude introduction to reality. I had only a .22 revolver with a 7 inch barrel and 9 shot cylinder, but I was very good with it out to the 30 yards or so to the street, was hidden very well in darkness in dark clothes and had the element of surprise, but I didn't have to shoot as numerous cars of looters passed us by. Talk about growing up fast!
A Mosin would have worked fine in that situation as five shots would have easily ended any normal threat at a distance before anyone could get close, shooting through cars if needed. An AK would have been better, but I would have been fine with a Mosin. The scary night ended when the National Guard set up a .30 cal machine gun and blocked access to my neighborhood, ending the siege.
An AK is a very inaccurate rifle for long distance defense or taking of game and shoots a lot less reliably through barriers than a Mosin, so I guess I'd choose the Mosin for most open country survival situations -I think urban defense against mobs is a different situation that would best be solved with about 10 Claymores and a Quad .50. In normal survival ("escape and evasion"), hiding is more important than trying to fight.
Probably a good gun combo for survival might be a quality stainless .22 revolver like a Ruger Single Six, a Mosin carbine and a stainless .22 rifle like a 10/22 with a scope, but everyone has to make up their own scenario of what sort of problem they anticipate. Total doomsday is very different than urban disorder or earthquake disruptions or terrorist shutdowns of major systems. As for zombies...
Addendum: My home defense firearms now are a pair of light-fitted Glock 22s in .40 Hornady Critical Defense with extended mags and a tactical pistol grip Winchester 12 gauge, with #4 buck, but .22s would certainly work for most survival situations -the Air Force got the old AR-7 .22 survival rifle and down in Mexico only .22s are allowed -they take even deer with them.
Last edited by Stalin's Ghost; 09-19-2012 at 12:55 AM. Reason: typo
09-18-2012, 10:24 PM #18
I would use a M1 garand ! Its fast and easy to load and dependable
09-18-2012, 10:29 PM #19Senior Member
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The reality is that initially - anything that will go "Bang" is preferable to something that won't....
The death knell is ammo and parts availability.... That would do in most Super-Extra-Ultra Mag and oddball cartridge rifles... as they turn into clubs pretty fast... I think you would see the majority of stuff like this ditched when Joe Hunter or Collector shoots up his 1 box of 325-Super-Extra-Uber-Joober-Ultra-Mag or 18.59 Goobenheimer Waffen-Poofen..
If you know ammo is going to be available - then sure, it's a fine survival rifle... It would easily be on my list with the Enfield and Mauser rifles when you are talking battle and terrible condition proven designs... but ammo still trumps all that good stuff.... If all you can get is 22lr and 12-gage shotgun - you better have one of those....
09-18-2012, 10:30 PM #20
I'd want to use something that had plenty of ammo to be found anywhere. I've got 15k+ rounds of 54R on hand, so that would last a while, I would hope. But in my neck of the woods .30-06, .223, or .308 would be everywhere, so it might make more sense to have something chambered for those cartridges. A Mosin might not be my first choice (my STG-58 carbine would be), but I'd be comfortable with a Mosin if that was all I had.
~ Greg ~
Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2."Any people whatsoever have the right to abolish the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right." -- Abraham Lincoln, 4 July 1848
09-18-2012, 10:32 PM #21
The rugged nature of bolt actions and the affordability of 7.62x54r, I say the Mosin fits the bill pretty well. It is a hard hitting round, decent range, decent accuracy. I can buy 3 tins per 1000k of 5.56/7.62x39. This is followed by a good .22lr, be it bolt, semi, revolver, hand gun... The biggest factor with anything is the person holding the gun...Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.
— Ayn Rand
09-18-2012, 11:01 PM #22
I'd just dig out 20 or 30 Mosins, kit out my neighborhood militia, fix bayonets and call martial law. They could call me "Fearless Leader" or "Uncle Joe."
Needless to say, all assets would be the property of "the people," that is to say, me.
(Sort of like Washington D.C, but in reverse.)
09-18-2012, 11:02 PM #23
I'm thinking that if i'm going to half to defend myself or others from looters/ thieves and the like, they're probably going to be armed as well. So, I'm not sure a bolt action is going to be my weapon of choice. However, If defending my home in a SHTF scenario, I'm going to have something at every window and most will be bolt guns.The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
09-18-2012, 11:03 PM #24Senior Member
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It's too darn heavy and too darn long, not to mention a rather crude bolt action to suit 'my' notion of a survival rifle. I'd have to give a survivalist nod to the highly portable AK/AR platforms. Lighter ammo means you can tote a lot more of it and still have an effective weapon at hand.'45 Tula M1895 revolver,'42 Izhevsk 91/30 various other firearms in .22LR, .380, 7.62x25, 7.62x38R, 7.62x54R, 9mm and .45ACP. Lee reloading gear.
09-18-2012, 11:45 PM #25Senior Member
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Wow Ghost. What a story!
Agree about hiding rather than trying to fight off a hoard, if possible.
When it comes to defending the 'castle', Mosins would be fine. Rifle and ammo weight isn't a concern if you're not traveling. Accurate enough to keep the perimeter cleared. Reliable and easy to clean. Powerful enough to disable vehicles, or shoot through barriers. Be sure to have enough of them to arm everyone in the fort, and plenty of ammo stockpiled. Good as a gun to hand out, or to trade for food. I love them, but not my first choice for survival. Although if it's all I had, I'd be confident.
My choice for weapons to carry a long distance would be .22 rifles and handguns. They are light weight, quick to point, fairly quiet, and you can carry a lot of ammo. Plenty deadly with good shot placement, and in semi-auto mode even a group could be dealt with. Reliability could be an issue though.
For short missions to gather food, water or intelligence, an AK is fairly light and has enough firepower to take on multiple bad guys. Also very intimidating, even without firing it. Will kill any game animal if required.
To hunt game for food, a shotgun with a variety of loads would be ideal. Also good for close-quarters defense.
A sniper rifle of some sort would be best to keep your position hidden, while eliminating an approaching threat at a distance..... Whether at home or traveling.
Always carry a reliable pistol in dangerous times, but I think the rifle would depend on the task at hand. I guess (at least) one of each type should be kept ready, since we can't be sure what kind of threat will occur. And it would be nice to have something that will shoot any common caliber of ammo found or traded for. Ammo will be the new currency.
If force to pick only one, a 1911 pistol. If I could add a second it would be an AK. A 12 gauge would come after that. Something accurate at long range would be next. Then the Mosins.
09-19-2012, 02:50 AM #26Senior Member
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layerd defense and a bug out plan B would work. 91/30 PU then sks, followed by saiga 12 and a 1911. if its just you against the wilderness, 12ga and a 22 would work well. i keep a savage 22-410 over under handy when at hunting camp to keep the stew pot full. simple design and dosent burn up alot of ammo. secure shelter and reliable water supply would be more important than what type of weapon or ammo. just make shure you have plenty on hand and train with your weapon before the zombie apocalypse.
Last edited by shjoe; 09-19-2012 at 03:17 AM.
09-19-2012, 03:01 AM #27Just one more Mosin and my collection will be complete!
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09-19-2012, 03:46 AM #28
For me, multiple platforms would be necessary for suitable survival in any situation. Hell, if I could have a tank...but even that could be a death trap in the wrong situation.
Now, that being said, you bet I'd have a Mosin Nagant in the mix. I have lots of ammo. And at this point, I am best with my 1940 Tula DDR 91/30 rifle. Always in the black @ 100yds. You want to disperse a crowd? Hold the trigger on a trench gun and start pumping. Claymores would be sweet. Can I get those with a C&R? Tactical nukes would be best against LARGE hordes.
Whats your situation? I'm for overwhelming force in any situation. That's "suitable survival" to me. The weapon depends on your situation, and your opponent.
Is the Mosin Nagant a suitable survival rifle? Ask the soldiers of the red army in WWII. I think they would say "yes". There was a picture posted of a female in Africa somewhere with an M38. I think she would say "yes" too. Ask any one who's only rifle is a Mosin Nagant, and I think they would say "better than nothing at all".
I would agree.Gary
***WARNING*** Mosins breed like rabbits!
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09-19-2012, 06:15 AM #29Senior Member
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One thing I like about the current crop of mosins, especially locally for those without a c&r ffl, is that the mosins are $120 with spike bayos on sale at Big 5, and plentiful elsewhere at a lower cost, and ammo isn't a bank breaker, the buttplates are steel for buttstroking attackers, and lets not forget that unruly killers bent on whatever can still be bayonetted apart from being shot in self defense, you can't try that with a scoped hunting rifle.
I think those without any gun or just a .22 and a shotgun should also have a mosin around and some surplus ammo, just cause they are plentiful, cheap, and idiot proof generally, the best value this year. Shotguns, those are also overlooked, the ammo doesn't generally fly off the shelves in a panic, and .22lr, guarantee you most folks if it came to it will find out they have .22 ammo that doesn't work right in their gun or was stored improperly and doesn't fire, of which reminds me and word to the wise, if there is a panic that .22 ammo won't generally be available for like a year to year and a half, and I haven't stocked up on at least a thousand rounds for plinking/target fun, got low several years ago when it became in short supply, I ended just training with snap caps in full size guns to practice pistol and rifle shooting.
Once I started lifting weights again seriously, and using a total gym exerciser to rehabilitate an injury to my leg I've had for four years, I pick up a mosin pu sniper and remark how light it feels as opposed to several years ago, very light, and I aint a big guy either.
Last edited by AndGunsForAll; 09-19-2012 at 06:26 AM.
09-19-2012, 07:15 AM #30
In this day and age a bolt action rifle would be my last choice for a survival weapon unless your survival strategy relied on sniper tactics. I would not want to engage multiple threats with a 5 rnd capacity weapon. I dont believe a Mosin is anymore reliable than a SKS/AK semi auto. I would want the ability to produce a volume of fire adequate enough to surpress a horde of evil doers. I think an AK/AR type of weapon would fit the bill here. What would you rather lug around a hundred rounds of 7.62x54 or the same amount in 5.56 or 7.62x39 ?........just my 2 cents
Last edited by Bullpup Dogg; 09-19-2012 at 07:30 AM.
09-19-2012, 07:35 AM #31
I got to shoot a m16 the other day for the first time. And it was fun. How ever if I wanted to hit something at 200 yards or more I'd sure want one of my mosins. If it was a 50 yard battle I'd take a m16 or AR type deal.Jeremy B
09-19-2012, 07:42 AM #32
09-19-2012, 07:47 AM #33Senior Member
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As a survival weapong, I'd think it would be fine. For a more SHTF type weapon, it wouldn't be as good. If I were in a world where I had to roam the lands taking game and maybe occasionally defending myself, I'd be ok with my favorite shooting M44. I'd take my Enfield No. 4 over it first though. I'd probably take either one over my scoped Weatherby .30-06. I figure the scope on that would break quickly, and then I'd have no sights whatsoever on the gun. I have a Ruger Mk. III .22lr that I would intend to carry in my pack for small game, and a Glock for a sidearm.
For a SHTF weapon the Mosin has some positives as well though. Ammo is currently abundant and affordable. You can buy a ton and stock up your hunkering down location of choice. You can also buy several Mosins to equip friends and family if need be. A small group of good shots, with a little practice loading, in a superior defensive position, should be able to hold their own against marauders.
09-19-2012, 07:51 AM #34
I think of "survival rifle" as something needed for living in the woods and having to feed one's family. If things ever get to mass chaos like what people here describe, there's not a lot of hope. In the collapse of supply chains and food production, the wild game population would be exhausted in short order. Only in the event of massive death due to disease, war or catastrophe could nature sustain a smaller population, in which case cooperation among survivors is more likely in an effort to support local agriculture.
To answer the question, I think a Mosin would be ideal. Simple, rugged, fairly accurate at hunting distances, power to kill food in one shot, easily slung across the back. Mainly, it would endure poor conditions (dirty, lack of gun oil or proper cleaning supplies) well, and wouldn't jam in frigid weather.Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.
09-19-2012, 07:59 AM #35
Survive? Or go to war?
Survival: priority 1 is water.
Number two is food.
three is the ability to start fire.
Four would be shelter
Five would be tools, of which, a firearm might be handy depending on the particulars but a knife would be indispensable.
The 7.62x54r cartridge will down any game animal in North America, so there is much to recommend it.
The Mosin-Nagant rifle design is antiquated, but it is reliable and simple.
I don't think anyone would want to go to war with a Mosin-Nagant. The fact is, it was used in very many wars, including the worst ones. The Soviet manual reveals that it can smite enemies through aimed fire out to 400 meters or so, used as a club, and makes a spear with the issue bayonet. That's three weapons right there.
In WWII engagement ranges were typically shorter than small arms designers had prepared for. A civilian would have even closer ranges, say within 35 yards if not the more typical 15-feet. Armies relied on different uniforms and helmets and silly hats to identify the enemy. The armed civilian does not have that criteria... Look at hands to determine whether someone is a potential threat. How far away can you see what a person is holding in his/her hands?
09-19-2012, 08:12 AM #36Senior Member
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read the QUESTION.
would it be a suitable survivle rifle.....
the answer is yes, any rifle will do as oppose to no rifle.
is it the BEST....that is an opened argument
and lots of opinions...
ask the afgans and the losing russians what they think of the mosin...the afgans "survived" with them...
in town...maybe not the best choice....
mike in coowner builder of the 91/12 mn sniper rifle
09-19-2012, 08:21 AM #37Senior Member
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- Dec 1969
Gents, instead of the platform being the solution, take a look at the caliber it shoots and what you want
dropped. We have a board member Caribou who survives in austere circumstances in Alaska and he uses
a Mosin (mostly Finn M39 which lights a fire under all the Finn Fanatics here ) and has enough Gun for year in and year out subsistence. He is as likely to run into a close encounter with a bear as you might encounter the Hulk coming up your driveway to do harm. I recommend reading Caribou's hunting threads
for appreciation of what a 30 caliber 150 and heavier grain bullet will do .
If you define survival as Zulu Dawn scenario then the bolt rifle is not ideal and the semi auto menu of rifles in 30 caliber is far better. Some may be inclined for 5.56 for this scenario and you will be well served as well. In Stalins Ghost's scenario, back in that day, a M4 would have been my choice over any M1, FN FAL or AK that I own. However in my more open neighborhood, I have my FN FAL stoked and ready.
Weapons are tools and truth be known, you'll grab the one you are most trained on and efficient on using. So if you aren't shooting Mosins alot, have the shot gun ready. If you train (shoot) with a Mosin routinely, then both you and the rifle are in a ready status. Give some thought to that. Give thought to a pistol for back up.
I have neighbors with Mosins and strength of character to use them. I have a neighbor with a lever action Marlin who is not going to be ill armed if the time comes.
If this thread does not shine a light on what you think is needed, just have a Mosin and one spam can of ammo on site and sleep well at night. As a minimum, the Mosin will bring in the bacon and drop threats dead in their track. As Vic said... only takes one shot.
09-19-2012, 08:24 AM #38
Im gonna recommend a good book on this subject. Not a gun book but a book about trying to survive and all that we take for granted in our daily lives.
One Second After, by William Forstchen. It'll make you think.The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
09-19-2012, 08:28 AM #39Senior Member
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09-19-2012, 09:04 AM #40Copper Bullet member
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You may want to jump to the SURVIVAL Forum ...
Depending on budget and needs, a Mosin can have a place. Consider: cheap, rugged, reliable, low maintenance, limited moving parts to lose/break, inexpensive ammo that can be bought in bulk.
However, a long 91/30 has some physical drawbacks. An M38 or M44 may be a bit more comfortable to sling over your shoulder and carry if you are on the move. The shorter carbines lose nothing in accuracy out to 200yds or more.
7.62x54R is a whopper on power comparable to most other .30 rounds. It only takes one hit to leave a huge impression.
With adequate training and practice, you will be amazed how fast you can cycle the bolt and make fairly rapid shots at multiple targets.
If I had to forage through heavy woods to hunt, I would likely choose my custom M44 to sling over my shoulder. I know I could take down a deer or a man at 220m with iron sights.
That being said, nothing against a Mosin as a cheap first choice rifle for someone starting out, however;
You need to obtain the right tools for the job.
That includes, but is not limited to:
A handgun for close up personal defense
A shotgun, pump action for reliability, preferably compact and in "tactical" dress for close range defense, with other accessories and additional barrels for hunting
An "intermediate range" semi-auto carbine for "urban combat"
A rifle for longer range hunting, where the Mosin fits nicely
A long range scoped rifle for distance "stand off" shooting
Many choices and considerations on all the above. Buy what you can afford to fit in your budget but don't limit yourself to any one particular "tool". Build a "toolbox" with the right tools for the particular job.
09-19-2012, 09:07 AM #41Member
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- Sep 2007
I've always read these shtf discusions with a bit of wtf. Most of them are 1 guy standing off hoardes like Rambo ,or heading to the hills alone , or with the family . Mosin nagant as a survival rifle you bet, those of us that read these forums tend to get hung up on caliber or specifc type of rifle .Probably for the average blue collar guy a mosin ,and 1000 rnds put aside would be a good thing learn how to shoot it, and put away for just in case. If it ever comes to real shtf you had better get organized fast , friends, family, coworkers ,comunity . Pick wich side your going to be on and dig in ,your street,your town your state ,your country.Four or five guys in the middle of the street firing remington 870s with 00 buckshot will stop any mob. If it ever comes to real shtf they aint going to like what happens to them or niether will you . The best weapon is your vote ,and get this country back on course.
09-19-2012, 09:16 AM #42Member
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- Feb 2012
Depends for me. Lets say in a unlikely-made up scenario of Foreign troops on U.S. soil,If it came to conflict,I would grab first my 1943 PU sniper-Can't go wrong with it,Accurate,Reliable,Excellent scope - I personally wouldn't take anything past 4X in the field. I'd actually choose my PU over my Rem. 700, seriously.
09-19-2012, 09:27 AM #43
Puhleeeze! Stuff like that and survivalism may be fun but lets try and keep this serious and avoid topics off the subject, and that may lead to useless chopping up of C&Rs.
And any survivalists that take offense, you can try and find any industrialized nation that's ever had an such collapse. Even recent TV SF shows have to resort to alien invasions or a mysterious disappearance of electricity.I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a sestertius in any one day.
09-19-2012, 10:16 AM #44
09-19-2012, 10:34 AM #45
Any rifle would be handy, provided the shooter has some training. If I were headed to the hills, as it were, I would bring mine. I have a big family and a lot of guns. But if I had to take only one rifle it would be my mini 14; it's about as accurate as a laser beam. It only takes one shot. Living in central CA, I could see a situation where an earthquake takes out the delta levees and ruins the water supply for LA, causing some to riot and such over water. Possible, but not very likely. On another note, a Mosin will hold six rounds; one in the chamber and 5 in the magazine. I loaded mine that way just to see if it would work. You just have to turn it over and open up the floorplate to get that 6th round in there.