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Thread: Lapua Scenar 155gr "Silver Jacket" (moly coated) loading experiment with 7.62X54r

  1. #1
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    Default Lapua Scenar 155gr "Silver Jacket" (moly coated) loading experiment with 7.62X54r

    Hi Guys,

    I know I don't get down here too much to the reloading area but I figured I would document my experience with these Moly coated Scenar bullets. I just got the shipment in today from Lapua and I am going out to the loading room right now to get started. Here is what I am working with:


    That's 1,000 brand new Lapua cases for 7.62X54r and 2 boxes of 1000 each Lapua Scenar 155gr SJ bullets. I also got a bunch of loaded ammo because it was on sale, so I will be shooting that to get the 30-06 cases to load. I'm using H4350 powder because I have had real good luck with it, but I am wondering if I might end up running out of room if the moly ends up needing more grains to get the velocity up where it should be, when compared to the naked bullets.

    So I will be loading tonight and reporting back tomorrow!!

  2. #2
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    Brian,, any special prep of barrels before moving over to Moly bullets?

    You are taking shooting 54R to the ultimate level of components and your results may make my loads obsolete and me miserable .

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Brian,, any special prep of barrels before moving over to Moly bullets?

    You are taking shooting 54R to the ultimate level of components and your results may make my loads obsolete and me miserable .
    Good Morning Milprileb :-)

    I'm shooting these first loads in my favorite 28-30, the same one I always use for the silhouette matches. I scrubbed the heck out of the bore with wipeout and then Sweets 7.62. There is no pitting in this bore, so I think it will be a good candidate. I'm a little concerned that I might need to get the barrel coated with moly before I start working up the load, and so far I only have 3 rounds loaded of each step going from 47 to 49 in .4 increments. Now I'm thinking I better load 10 more of the 47 gr loads and shoot those first to foul the barrel with Molly. Hmmm. Better get to work :-)

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    I went to the range today and shot 28 rounds through the chronograph. Got some interesting results and found that I need to do some more loading and go back to the range. I will give a rundown on how it went.

    My initial thought on powder was to use H4350 but I quickly realized that I would run out of case capacity before I get to the optimum charge weight, so I made the decision to switch to H4895. I loaded up 3 rounds of 47 grains and then added .4 to my throws and made 3 more, etc etc, until I had them all the way up to 49.4 grains. I finished seating the Lapua Scenars and went to bed. Then I remembered reading about moly bullets and how the advantage of using moly doesn't show up until you shoot them for a while (something like that) so I decided to go back and load 10 more and shoot those first before I do my testing. So once I got to the range this afternoon, I shot the 10 rounds and then started testing with 3 rounds of each and then let it sit for a while and shot my other rifles. I have created a PDF file showing the readings from my chronograph. I found the results both interesting and slightly confusing. I will attach here and now I have to go cook dinner for the boss

    Lapua testing chart.pdf

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    Load seven seems to be the 'sweet spot' for both tight group and lowest deviation, combined. Plenty velocity! So far my only work with moly-coated bullets has been in .22 Hornet. By far my tightest shooting loads. I need to try moly in my milsurp calibers - my Chinese T53 has a really great bore, as do my Spanish M1916 Mauser and Swiss K31.
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    It's time for the next episode of "Flyin Brian's Lapua Scenar experiment"!!

    I went to the range Sunday to continue where I left off with my load testing. I had some very strange results. The velocity ended up going down even though I was using more powder. I can't figure out what is going on, but I will continue testing. I did find a load that looks promising, I just need to try these at a longer distance now.

    Here are the results so far:

    H4895 powder, Lapua Cases, 155gr Lapua Scenar Silver jacket.

    47.0g>avg-2868>spread-31.35>SD-17.43>groups-OK

    47.4g>avg-2884>spread-26.80>SD-13.52>groups-GOOD

    47.8g>avg-2927>spread-14.88>SD-7.74>groups-POOR

    48.2g>avg-2984>spread-3.68>SD-2.23>groups-FAIR

    48.6g>avg-3041>spread-10.68>SD-6.32>groups-OK

    49.0g>avg-3052>spread-14.61>SD-7.74>groups-GOOD

    49.4g>avg-3019>spread-9.79>SD-4.47>groups-VERY GOOD

    THIS IS THE START OF THE NEXT SESSION MADE 2 DAYS LATER:

    49.5g>avg-2951>spread-75.27>SD-27.82>groups-OK

    49.7g>avg-2958>spread-67.20>SD-31.49>groups-OK

    49.9g>avg-2936>spread-64.81>SD-28.24>groups-VERY GOOD

    50.1g>avg-3010>spread-26.18>SD-11.22>groups-GOOD

    As you can see from the chart above, I took my results from the first test session and decided to continue increasing the charge weight since I was not showing ANY pressure signs from the cases/primers and the bolt was easy to open. I figured I was getting closer to the correct load so I went down to a .2gr step and also loaded 5 rounds per level this time. The crazy part is my velocities went down!! At 48.6gr in the first session, all shots were over 3000 FPS and now I was a full grain over that and still not even hitting 3000 until a few of my 49.9 shots. I was using the same rifle, same bench, same powder, primers, bullets, etc that only thing different was the day. The temperature was within 6 and the wind was the same. One of my friends at the range suggested it could be due to the 28-30 having a relatively short barrel, so maybe the powder is not burning all the way at this increased velocity. I am wondering if this powder is too bulky? The last 3 levels of charge were compressed loads, but not heavily compressed. The powder was above the shoulder but still well below the neck before seating the bullet.

    That's what I have to report. I'm confused.

  7. #7
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    Brian,
    How much research did you do before deciding to go moly?
    I thought it was common knowledge that moly reduces friction which in turn lowers pressure which in turn results in lower velocity.
    Motor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motor View Post
    Brian,
    How much research did you do before deciding to go moly?
    I thought it was common knowledge that moly reduces friction which in turn lowers pressure which in turn results in lower velocity.
    Motor
    Hi Motor, yes I did read up on it before I started and I understand it will lower friction. The reason I chose the moly is because I got a crazy low price on the bullets, not because I wanted to mess with moly!! haha. I'm just shocked that I worked up the ladder on a Friday and then came back the next day with hotter loads to continue where I left off and found my velocity was lower than where I left off, over 100 FPS lower, and this was with a higher charge. I guess it was just due to it being a different day, different conditions, who knows, it just seemed odd to me.

    I also don't know where to stop working my way up... I still haven't got any pressure signs and I am plenty hot on velocity, so I guess I should be happy here and not keep pushing it. I really need to try it at a longer distance now.

    Brian

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    When you see "pressure signs" you will be WAY above the design limits of the 7.62x54R cartridge and the weapons that were designed in the late 1800s. The velocities above 3000fps with a 155gr bullet are another clue to throttle back a bit.

    Your brass will last a lot longer if you settle on one of your milder loads.
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    I'd agree with ammolab, keeping your powder charges on the low side will allow everything to last longer. From your data I'd be happy at [ 49.4g>avg-3019>spread-9.79>SD-4.47>groups-VERY GOOD ]. But if your velocities keep dropping the more you use molly bullets our spread, sd and group size may vary. Keep up the good data collection.
    me26245

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    Quote Originally Posted by me26245 View Post
    I'd agree with ammolab, keeping your powder charges on the low side will allow everything to last longer. From your data I'd be happy at [ 49.4g>avg-3019>spread-9.79>SD-4.47>groups-VERY GOOD ]. But if your velocities keep dropping the more you use molly bullets our spread, sd and group size may vary. Keep up the good data collection.
    I just loaded another 25 rounds with the 49.4 charge to test tomorrow. I totally agree with your choice of loads, as this was the one that was in the middle of the "good, very good, OK, OK" area, which means if this load is not so dependent on a precise powder charge. If I choose to use my Dillon progressive to load a crap load of 7.62x54r, It won't matter if my charge ends up at 49.3 or 49.5, it will still group well.

    If things go well tomorrow, I will start messing with the OAL.

  12. #12
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    Brian,

    Since you and Tiledude shoot distance (over 300 yds), you are best served weighing out each charge. Under 300yd, you won't regret using a progressive press and powder system.

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    I think i only said it out loud to see how it sounded... If you knew how anal i am about precision, you'd know i could not use a progressive to load my rifle rounds :D

    I did load some 6.5X55 on the Dillon, but i used my chargemaster to throw each charge. Kind of defeats the purpose of a progressive but it was fun to try.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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    Brian, let me know when you are going to spring one like that again so I can
    put on a neck brace and not get whip lash. All those Lapua components and not
    weigh charges was a shocker.

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    Very nice reporting. I have bought 200 Lapua cases years ago and did some experiments. I moved and packed up all my stuff 4 years ago and have not set up my reloading gear yet. I have a small mountain of milsurp 7.62 X 54R that serves as my blasting ammo. Now even the poor 100 yard range 35 miles away has closed. So I have to go about 60 miles to a range. I want to go back to shooting the National Match Course and the range in Brunswick, Ga has a 600 yard leg. WOO HOO !!!! I normally use one of my M39 rifles to shoot. I do have others and a 28/30. But for some reason, I have this one M39 that I have shot a lot and I am very used to the trigger release. When I was loading I had the best performance with the 4895 powder loads. My stuff is packed up. So I have no data handy. But, IIRC it was a few loads down from max. I started to use 200 grain "fat boys" for the 600 leg and that worked for me. This will get me motivated to do some unpacking tonight out in the carport. Thanks for the report. I hated to see the comment about the 22 Hornet. I have the hots to get one and have been trying to strangle that idea in its cradle. I am not such a swell shot, but I have a swell time. When I roll my own, it is different in my experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin Brian View Post
    Hi Motor, yes I did read up on it before I started and I understand it will lower friction. The reason I chose the mole is because I got a crazy low price on the bullets, not because I wanted to mess with moly!! haha. I'm just shocked that I worked up the ladder on a Friday and then came back the next day with hotter loads to continue where I left off and found my velocity was lower than where I left off, over 100 FPS lower, and this was with a higher charge. I guess it was just due to it being a different day, different conditions, who knows, it just seemed odd to me.

    I also don't know where to stop working my way up... I still haven't got any pressure signs and I am plenty hot on velocity, so I guess I should be happy here and not keep pushing it. I really need to try it at a longer distance now.

    Brian
    Brian,
    I was away for a few days. I see you got a lot more replies.

    Your lower velocities with hotter loads mentioned here could also have been due to the moly "treatment" getting to it's best coverage of your bore.
    I used to shoot the Combined Technology 200gr moly and also a home moly coated 200gr Nosler Ballistic Tip from a .338 Win. Mag. and of course a non-coated 200gr Nosler BT. I noticed the same things you are seeing. My non-coated load was a max performance hunting load. It shot 2900 f/s. The same load with the moly bullets showed less pressure and along with it less velocity. Since I was already pushing the envelope I didn't dare increase my charge to try and match the non-coated velocity.

    I can fully understand taking advantage of a bargain, believe me, and you may find the lack of or at least greatly reduced copper fouling a nice thing but you may have to give up some speed. JM2c.

    Motor

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