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  1. #1
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    Default AMMO: 10,35mm Italian Revolver

    Bruce Janis
    Posted - 09/29/2003 : 4:25:08 PM
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    Recently bought a Glisenti 10.35 revolver and, unfortunately, the ammo that came with it does not seem to want to enter the rebated portion of the cylinder. Stops about 1/20 of an inch short. Not wanting to push it in with a live primer on board, I am not sure if it is just a tight fit or the case is too long. I 'think' the ammo came from OWS but seller bought it 2nd hand himself. Any ideas?



    John Wallace
    3488 Posts
    Posted - 10/01/2003 : 10:35:00 AM
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    Do you mean the rim won't enter the part of the chamber that is recessed for the rim? I used to have a miniature carpenter's plane which was excellent for removing consistent thin slivers of brass from a rim, to reduce its diameter. The class act would be to make a plastic or rubber holder to mount each case on an electric screwdriver to do this. I'd wear safety glasses and thick clothing, but I can't see this low-speed operation being dangerous.
    You wouldn't chuck it in a high-speed lathe or drill and use a file? No, silly of me. Nobody would.



    spyman
    Posted - 10/03/2003 : 09:44:12 AM
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    Fiocchi still makes 10.35 Italian Ordnance Revolver ammo and it shoots very well I picked up two 25 rnd boxes at a show for 18$ per box....
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    BILL GRIST



    Bruce Janis
    Posted - 10/26/2003 : 5:27:51 PM
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    Been out ot town so unable to reply. I pulled one of the bullets. Turns out it is a hardcast roundball. Sized 440. No wonder the round would not chamber completely. Seems to have a full load of black powder. Once the bullet was out, the case went in fairly easily. I was thinking of having Lee make me a .420 or 421 sizer and either casting my own .429 from 1/30 lead/tin mix or buying some swaged .429 bullets and sizing them down to the correct size. Sound feasible?

  2. #2
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    Default

    Dave Gafvert
    Posted - 05/07/2005 : 6:11:47 PM
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    I have added a nice Italian WW1 (1917) revolver to my WW1 collection
    and as I shoot all of my guns I would like to make up ammo for it.
    I have found that by trimming 44 russian cases off to 0.815 O.A.L.
    and seating a 200 grn cast bullet in the case to a cartridge O.A.L.
    of 1.125 it fits the chamber OK, a little sloppy at the rear but I am
    going to load it with "Clean Shot" black powder substitute, thus low
    pressure. Bullet dia, is .427. Has anyone done this or might have some
    pointers they would like to pass on to me. Tanks



    airdale
    Posted - 05/08/2005 : 09:57:54 AM
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    Dave, Fiocchi makes factory ammo for this caliber. You can get it from www.grafs.com item# FC10410



    Dave Gafvert
    Posted - 05/08/2005 : 4:03:51 PM
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    Thanks Airdale, I know Fiocchi makes ammo for it but I like to see if
    I can make my own alot cheaper and more available (my loading bench)
    not to mention the challenge. I have a number of revolvers in obsolete
    calibers that I like to shoot and with my firearms background I go
    about making ammo for them very carefully. I notice the new "Cartridges Of The World" doesn't even list it! I do have two reloading books from the 30's that cover calibers that are not listed in any of the new manuals.

    I have made ammo for these calibers, if it would help someone out they can e-mail me.

    .476 Webleys, etc*
    .450 Ely*
    11mm French 1873 revolver*
    10.4 German 1883 revolver*
    310 Martini Cadet (chambered for 32-20) Jacketed bullet load .321 dia,
    10.4 Italian 1889 revolver*
    *= Clean Shot 3F powder load

    My revolver does not have a makers name on it, it does have proof marks, a crown over the letters RE on the right side, and the number 3627 on the right side behind the hammer and the date 1917 on the left side. Can put some light on these markings



    airdale
    Posted - 05/08/2005 : 6:14:16 PM
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    Dave, the 10th edition of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD has it listed on page 289. THE HANDLOADER'S MANUAL OF CARTRIDGE CONVERSIONS has it listed on page 546. They say to make cases from 44 mag or special brass with rim trimed to .505" dia.,cut to .90" ,trim to length, size in f/l die or .240 Weatheby sizer. They also list one load with 177gr. bullet and 4.0 grs bullseye. If you need me to mail or fax the page with the cartridge drawing, let me know.
    The crown over the letters is the military acceptance stamp.



    Dave Gafvert
    Posted - 05/08/2005 : 6:35:00 PM
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    Hi Airdale, I didn't have to turn the rims on the 44 Russian brass, it
    fit the counterbore OK. Thanks for the info on a smokeless load. Have you tried Clean Shot powder? I am hooked on it, it burns as clean as smokeless and is not hydroscopic like Pyrodex. I use the 3F for pistol cartridges. Do they list any loads for Unique. I have cut 25
    cases to .815 O.A.L. so that will have to do, I will get a copy of
    "The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" I should have one thats for sure. Thanks again for your help



    airdale
    Posted - 05/08/2005 : 7:18:40 PM
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    I have used the clean shot in a muzzle loader but I like Hodgedon triple 7 just as well. The load with the bullseye is the only load they have listed and BTW that is a lead bullet and they list bullet dia. as .422". Let us know how your loads work out.



    ralph h
    Posted - 05/09/2005 : 10:45:52 PM
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    Greetings, Dave Gafvert,

    I load 10.4 for my 1872 Chamelot Delvigne, Italian service revolver.
    I use 44-40 cases trimmed to .890". Rim diameter is O.K. I use a mixture of dies. Some I have modified for a specific purpose. Use Lyman 427098, 205 gr., sized to .424". I use 4.8 gr. Unique, giving 790 fps velocity. Shoots well and gives good accuracy.

    Pic no longer there
    Download Attachment:
    34.91 KB
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/ra..._Italian-L.jpg
    Download Attachment:
    145.8 KB

    Also load: 12mm Lefaucheux, pinfire & centerfire.
    12mm Perrin
    .450 Revolver
    12mm Galand, thin rim
    12 x 18mm Spirlet
    11.75 Montenegrin
    11mm French Ordnance
    10.6 Reichsrevolve
    .476 Eley
    .44 Belgian
    .440 Nagant, Argentine
    7.62 x 38R Nagant, revolver
    Plus other more modern cartridges.

    Keep up the good work.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regards, Ralph.
    Boy, I love these old guns.....



    DMala
    Posted - 05/10/2005 : 11:02:43 AM
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    Wow, what a list of interesting calibers....!



    Dave Gafvert
    Posted - 05/11/2005 : 11:00:55 AM
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    Howdy ralph h, I am impressed! I well know how much work goes into
    each old long gone catridge. I will check out the 44-40 brass. I use
    45 Auto Rim cases to make the 11mm French round and a modified 30-06
    sizer die and a .445 RB with a felt beeswax wad and 3 Grns of unique.
    The load shoots to the sights at 25 yds. what did you come up with. I load for all my guns as I also like the old calibers. I have given some thought to making cases for the 12mm pin fire but didn't because I was going to use a percussion cap with a pin through the case to
    detonate it and it would be to risky if a round were dropped.



    ralph h
    Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:53:21 PM
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    Greetings, Dave,

    Here is a link to the 11mm French.
    New link: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=38283
    And another for the crimping tool. This is a long one, but read all three pages.
    New link: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=6252
    Here is link for Lefaucheux, pinfire & centerfire.
    New link:http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=38294
    I will leave you to your reading while I get back to work. I will be back later this evening.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regards, Ralph.



    Dave Gafvert
    Posted - 05/11/2005 : 2:25:15 PM
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    Hello Ralph, You should write a book! The knowledge you have gained
    is priceless. I am a retired machinist of 69 and as a hobby I make
    parts and do repaires on antique handguns. The French mod 73 11mm I
    found at a local show had it's original holster and when I used my
    air gun to blow out the inside alot of old paper came out and a French coin dated 1917 in like new condition was found it was tarnished and I feel it was used to remove the side plate, The holster is in good shape and I worked it over with pecard. I make all
    of my own springs and case harden lock parts (not color) I have made
    copys of the information you have posted, knowledge is precious. I hope others that read your posts appreciate the time, work and unselfish demeanor you have put forth.

    Most Humbly
    Dave Gafvert



    DMala
    Posted - 05/11/2005 : 3:10:33 PM
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    Dear Ralph, the work done on the pinfire cartridges is impressive!

    By any chance do you also know how to make needlefire paper cartridges? I have this old Carcano needlefire conversion from percussion, which is sitting in my safe....you know.....



    ralph h
    Posted - 05/14/2005 : 3:00:38 PM
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    Greetings, DMala,

    Sorry, never had a need. If I had that rifle, you can rest assured I would be making cartridges for it.



    uncletony
    Posted - 05/20/2005 : 7:07:35 PM
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    Hi I am going to add my two cents worth, I load and shoot my Bodeo by cutting 44 s&w special down to .890" load with 4.5gr Bullsye seat with .45 acp die and crimp with .303 British full size die, this fits the tapered cylinder nicely. I almost forgot, the bullets I use are .44-40 (.427) 200 gr purchased at midway, works for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 200559223534_Italian-L.jpg  
    Last edited by Carcano; 10-08-2007 at 02:48 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Case reforming

    contedisantelmo
    Italy
    Posted - 09/03/2005 : 5:30:09 PM
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    I use the 44 magnum or 44/40 with rim 505" and cut the case at 89" size with 303 British die

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Contedisantelmo
    TSN La Spezia
    http://www.tsnlaspezia.191.it/

  4. #4
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    Default

    BillOregon
    Posted - 08/28/2006 : 1:22:54 PM
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    I have one of these that was matte refinished and the bore is rough. But the thing locks up tight, so I'd like to shoot it. I know Fiocchi makes ammo, but do any of you handload for these guns? Where did you get your cases, dies, bullets?



    airdale
    Posted - 08/28/2006 : 4:58:09 PM
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    Try Buffalo Arms at www.buffaloarms.com


    hetai
    Posted - 08/29/2006 : 12:11:03 AM
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    I have about 50 once-fired Fiocchi cases cheap if anyone's interested. [email protected]



    DocAV
    Posted - 08/29/2006 : 06:54:56 AM
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    Cases for the Glisenti/Bodeo revolvers are easy to make from .44 Special (Starline) or anybody's .44 Magnum cases.
    Just trim to correct length, and taper the body using a .303Brit. FLS die. Use .425-.430 Cast lead round nose projectiles, 200 grains is good)---(The revolvers are pretty forgiving on bullet diameter).
    Loads: Just use the equivalent .44 Special/Russian type load, but cut back about 10-15 % for starters.
    I crimp mine by running the loaded rounds into the .303 die again (beautiful taper crimp)
    A 44 Spec. die set can be used to seat the bullet, but remember to ensure the case has enough taper to enter the chamber.



    BillOregon
    Posted - 08/29/2006 : 11:18:59 AM
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    Doc: Thanks so much for the loading information. Sounds like Starline .44 Russian brass would work, trimmed from .97 to .89.


    EDINOH
    Posted - 09/02/2006 : 7:17:19 PM
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    Doc AV, I thought they were a heeled projectile measuring .426/.416.
    I found some oddball sized 210 grain .420 projectiles at a show one time and used them. It was a snug fit in the cylinder. I don't think my cylinder would swallow the .426 to .429 sized projectiles. EDINOH.



    DocAV
    Posted - 10/03/2006 : 7:31:34 PM
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    EDINOH, The "fit" problem is why I taper-crimp/size after loading in the rear end of a .303 British die. It ensures that both the Bullet and the neck of the case will be a sliding taper fit into the chamber.
    In any case, Bodeo (and the earlier Black Powder M74 Glisenti) were very accomodating in chamber dimensions.
    I suppose on could get a Custom Mould Maker to cherry out a set of "Heeled" Bullet casting Blocks ( actually the M99 Bullet is both Heeled and has a Driving band just beyond the Mouth Crimp, and is " Metal Plated" ( brass washed).



    hijack
    Posted - 10/04/2006 : 09:56:06 AM
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    Thank you again DocAv, sounds like some experience talking. I have found where the supplies are to reload the 10.4mm Italian, and with your methods this prodject should advance nicely. Thanks for your response, Hijack.



    Bruce in Utah
    Posted - 10/04/2006 : 11:31:48 PM
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    Doc..thanks for the info. I bought a Bodeo several years ago and it came with 2 boxes of reloads, BP and a .440 cast ball. For obvious reasons it did not fit but as I already case my own .429 bullets and now have the cases, we are good to go.

  5. #5
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    Default

    NebrHogger
    Posted - 01/21/2007 : 08:39:52 AM
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    The loads are no biggie for this caliber - trim your 44 spl brass to length, use a soft alloy 205 grain bullet meant for 44-40 as sold by Meister. Hold the bullet against the case to see about where the base would be when you seat the way you want, and fill with BP or BP sub to that level. Seat the bullet and away you go.

    Were it mine, I'd call Lee & score a .423 custom sizer for 25 bucks...

    I tend to agree with Athelbert... if it's missing parts, I'd wait for another to come along. SW



    airdale
    Posted - 01/21/2007 : 09:20:19 AM
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    I make my ammo using 44 SPL or Mag brass trimed to .89 and then load with 3.1 grs IMR Trailboss (44 Russian powder data) with a Hornady 44-40 (.427 dia.)205 gr lead bullet with a COL of 1.25". The Bodeo revolver I have was made in 1918 by Mida Brescia and slugs at .425 and the .427 bullets works great in mine. I recommend you slug your barrel first before making ammo for it.
    BTW after you trim the brass to lenght you will have to size them with a .303 Brit or .240 Whtby sizing die and then use 44 Spl expanding and seating dies to load the bullets. After bullets are loaded run them in the .303 or 240 sizing die again (with decapper removed) to taper crimp them so they will feed in the chambers. you do not have to run them all the way in the sizing die, just enought to get a good taper so they will feed ok, this amounts to about a half of a stroke on my press.

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