Good question. I've been force-feeding my Spandau with 1936 clips. It tolerates it...
Does anyone know where I can find a few original vintage clips for my 1915 Amberg Gew 98?
Good question. I've been force-feeding my Spandau with 1936 clips. It tolerates it...
I think I have about 3 of the old brass WW-I Mauser clips - but I think I'll hang on to 'em!
They do show up every now and then - keep an eye on the gun shows in your area or the auction sites.
Should I discover an unknown stash of them amongst my late Father's estate effects (and I just might) I'll keep you in mind!
Thanks - that would be great! Can you post photos of what they look like? Be nice to know what I'm looking for.
Wow - these must be like Japanese WW2 entrenching tools - millions made, few survived! I only need a couple!
Couldda swore I had at least 3, but was only able to dig up this one.
Oh well; here's a few studies of that FYI:
here's the other side.
Kinda hard to tell which is which from the picture, but when you see one in all 3 dimensions it's easy to see which end is up. The spring tabs on each end bend up towards the front (ammo) side.
You can see just a little bit of the end of one of these tabs sticking up in the middle of this end view:
Loading these clips is a little tricky - I try not to let the first cartridge slide down any furthur than the head diameter from the end.
That way it keeps the spring tab depressed a little and makes it easier to get subsequent rounds in.
You have to work the edge of the ctg. rim into the end of the clip and catch the spring tab under the base of the case head...
The rims are apt to want to just fetch up against the end of the tab and stop or run underneath it - which won't do, either.
Once you get the rim over the tab, sort of roll it down against spring tension and catch the other side of the rim under the opposite side rail:
... try not to let the spring tab pop out from underneath the rim - and then slide the cartridge down into the rack just far enough for the next one.
I use my left ring finger to hold the first round up and keep the stack of rounds from going too far down and letting the spring tab all the way up.
Repeat for 5 rounds.
Here we have a clip all stoked up with 5 rounds of Egyptian 210 gr. Ball (Don't that stuff kick like the very devil?!!).
To charge the magazine, open the bolt and insert the end of the clip into the charger slot in the top of the receiver bridge just behind where the bolt handle sticks out.
Push it down until it stops; the bottom "sausage bumps" on the sides of the clip should be about half way down below the top surface of the receiver.
Note the 3 little sausage shaped bumps along the side of the clip rail.
When the clip is seated firmly down, place the thumb over the base end of the top cartridge:
And press straight down until all cartridges are in the magazine and your thumb rests in the cut-out in the top of the left receiver rail.
In combat, a forcefull forward thrust or blow on the bolt would eject the clip as it chambered the first round.
For casual shooting though, it is much better to just pick it out and lay it aside for future use.
Springfield clips look similar to the Mauser variety, except that instead of the spring tabs they use a narrow metal tab that sticks out of each end, and is bent up to hold the cartridges in once it is loaded.
You can reload them about 5 times (if you keep bending the tab back up after each use) before the little tab flex stress fractures and breaks off, but the Springfield clips were intended to be expendable and only used once so that was a non issue for the US military.
Back when we were getting all that super cheap Turkish 8mm ammo in bandoleers (Ah; those were the days!) I recall that they came on clips, but I think that they were steel.
If you can find a bando or two of that ammo you'd have at least a few clips.
Hopefully someone out there will have saved his Turkish clips and share a few with you.
Hope that these pics and observations are helpful to ye - and good luck finding a stash of 'em!
Last edited by Uncle Jaque; 09-23-2007 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Insert Photos and Edit Text
These are Turk jobs, not Imperial German stripper clips/chargers.. the earliest ones were much as these are, though not brass, the ones from the Great War were very much like the ones from the nazi era but only marked differently.
Kent's book on ammunition goes into the markings well enough and I would do you a few pics however they changed the format here but I will try and pull a few for you and do my own images tomorrow.
Since I started my website on these chargers I have found the marked ones to be quite elusive, at least certain years, imperial era ones are hardest to find but all can be found with diligence. (good news if you come across them at gunshows they often can be had for $1 or less, bad news is they are not terribly commonly seen "marked")
I collect these and will trade for others I need.
Great information! Thanks. Now, my question is how do I tell Great War clips from later clips. I'll obviously be looking for that real early example that looks like a Turk clip as well.
I always thought those brass clips were WW-I, as that's what I seem to recall my Pappy telling me they were.
I borrowed some Turk 8mm today at a club function to feed my K-98, and it was on brass strippers - but they are quite different from the spring tab versions that I posted about previously.
The 2 clips on the left are for the 1903 and 03-A3 Springfield; they also work in the US M-1917 rifle.
The brass one I am told is of the type used in WW-I while the parkerized steel one is more WW-II era.
The major differences in the Springfield clip is the bend-up retaining tabs at the ends and they only have 2 "sausage bumps" along the sides as opposed to the Mauser's 3.
There is a shallow "V" strip running along the bottom of the Springfield clip that presses up on the edges of the case head pinching the rims between it and the top rail, and keeps the cartridges from rattling around in the clip.
On the left are the Mauser clips; the Turkish clips - at least the ones I used today - have a smooth, flat floor which is held up by some sort of a spring, and is a lot easier to load than the spring tab type.
The floor plate also bends down on the ends, covering the space between the floor plate and bottom of the clip, preventing the rim from getting hung up under the floor plate as it is introduced into the clip.
A much better design than either the early Mauser or the Springfield, in my opinion.
I'm also going to edit my previous posts with some illustrations of how I load the Mauser clip, in case anyone is interested
I find that there is a little trick to it.
Thanks for the information! Great photos too.
"Americans, why can't everybody be like us"?
Ernie Pyle, Okinawa April 1 1945
Its nothing personal Jaque, but none of these are Great War anything, the new ones you show are Czech in origin and were sold to Turkey in quantity, you can find them in steel and brass and the steel ones are often mfg marked, on occasion the brass ones are too, not sure which ones the Czech military used but like the Germans probably the steel ones (you can find German strippers/chargers made of brass but they are as often as not early ones and probably sold for commercial sale to Portugal or one of the other countries that Germany courted for their mining products).
The ones I showed are Imperial German, and one guy (Mauserdad or ?) had a set as well, they are not common enough to get in quantity and those you show are all extremely easy to obtain (I actually use the Czech ones you show for actual shooting my rifles as they are cheap, expendable and quite good in the field... )
Naturally as with anything you read on a forum, - take it and confirm it but if you take the time you will find yours are not Imperial era strippers/chargers.
Last edited by SimsonSuhl; 09-25-2007 at 03:03 PM. Reason: I wanted to
No offense taken at all, and like I said my only indication of the vintage of those clips was something my late Father told me years ago and he apparently was mis-informed about them as well, even though he was usually pretty up on that stuff.
You've obviously studied the subject a lot more than i have, and I appreciate being brought up to speed on it - a little bit anyway.
I never thought much about the multitude of variations of these simple little accessories, but it seems that they are a worthy subject of collection unto themselves.
I checked out your website, but all I found was an order form for a book or magazine subscription and a chart on the gehwer site from 1934. The magazine looks interesting but I get way more than I get around to reading already.
Do you have all of this Great War stripper clip info with pictures on a web site somewhere?
Now you've got me curious!
Am I correct in assuming that the brass Springfield clips are early / WW-I vintage?
When did they switch to steel?
Are the 3 "sausage bumps" (as I call them anyway) along the side of the clip common to all Mauser clips? If so, that would be a good way to distinguish any type of Mauser clip from a Springfield, wouldn't it?
Last edited by Uncle Jaque; 09-25-2007 at 03:35 PM. Reason: update
The chart is dated, http://gewehr98.com/html/clips.htm there was a couple updates to the MRJ with a current chart for 1934-45, - the current chart is extensively updated; I need to update the entire Gewehr98.com website as I have extensive updates for it but the guy who helped me setup Gewehr98.com bailed out on continuing it so I have to do some figur'n on how to do the update thing..
As to Imperial strippers, I wasn't planning to get this involved in this discussion, GÃ¶tz covers the development in as much detail as anyone and Kent covers the coding used early on as it relates to ammunition which follows on the strippers/chargers somewhat, no one I know of in English covers this subject in great detail (there are no books on strippers/chargers).
I collect marked stripper clips and have collector friends in the UK, France & Germany who have helped me gather what information I have, it is a niche field where only recently any interest has been shown and that is mostly in the nazi era chargers, collectors in the UK (where they can't collect much else..) have been especially helpful in collecting examples.
I will try and attach GÃ¶tz paragraph on the subject, his picture is in B&W and of little value but they show the two types I show above, - the early type like your Turk jobs, though made of steel (hence the rust on my single marked example), and the nickel plated brass/steel ones (I don't recall his exact statement on this).
As to the MRJ, certainly we utilize the website to sell our range of books as it supports the continued existence of the MRJ (which doesn't support itself by subscription alone) and the site is set up to offer a glimpse at what is being written about by exposing the content pages (our current issue will have a cover up in 2-3 days, covering subjects ranging from a Finnish used Swedish rifle, Mauser Banner 98k variation, to a number of articles based around barrel subcontractors for the 98k and the German Ordnance Staffs set up in Poland in 1939- find such articles in a pulp gun magazine?).
Compared to the generalizations and overall lack of depth found in gun magazines I prefer newsletters by far, - whether Banzai, MRJ of AutoMag I make the time to read the hobby newsletters as that is where ground breaking research is done- you'll find little of value in the Gun & Ammo types as they are marketed to appeal to the masses that get hijacked along with their ole ladies to the local Wal Mart.
Here is two scans, top one from "The German Rifle by John Walter" page 104; second German Military Rifles & Machine Pistols 1871-1945 by Hans Dieter GÃ¶tz" page 135; - note Walter references GÃ¶tz as his source so one comment is essentially a repetition of another and imo error prone as it relates to wartime Germany.
The mention is of brass being used, in the Great War copper or brass would not have been a favored metal in such a disposable item as a charger, and the ones that were in German hands would have been melted during the 1915-16 period if any were still on hand- nickel would have been out of the question for utilization for chargers after the war became inevitable, as both are metals the Germans would have had strict control on- as in the Second, both were equally controlled.
In other words this is the snapshot from very early on for the development of the charger not the situation as it existed in 1914. I found no sources for developments beyond 1904, - you might note for this GÃ¶tz mentions the two-piece sheetmetal type that was used later (up to the Great War and during, sheetmetall was the standard and nickel nor copper would have been used as both were strategic metals the Germans used extensive means to control, there have been studies done on steel used by the Germans and its qualitive aspects done by the US Army after the Great War noting the German expediencies in steel making- also after the Second World War CIOS reports on same) and Walters not mentioning this in his text.. not sure why the oversight on Walter's part skipping this but Walter is clearly in error.
Anyway, I put both up for you to make your own opinion, - all known Imperial German strippers/chargers are sheet steel, though of course other collectors may have seen the earliest types GÃ¶tz alludes too, - I and my fellow collectors I have discussed this with have not.
Oh, as I type I have enroute, Jon Speed's new book "Mauser Archives" and with any luck at all I will have it in hand today, if so I will see if Mr. Speed can illuminate this further, - I have the greatest expectations to his new book!!
Buy books, and subscribe to newsletters as they are the forefront of collecting-
Last edited by SimsonSuhl; 09-26-2007 at 02:20 PM. Reason: I wanted to
If you collect mausers or have an interest that goes beyond caliber, year it was made and how to disassemble ---
subscribe to the MRJ.
Articles are written by extremely knowledgeable people, usually in-depth and detailed information.
The forums are great and have changed the way (and speed) information is obtained - but - in my opinion - collector books and newletters are still the *best* way to obtain information. I don't think it is an either-or situation; I think the two mediums compliment each other.
just my 2 cents worth.
Last edited by Azrael; 09-26-2007 at 03:56 PM. Reason: pics
Very cool, have some Great War US 30-06 found in France by a French collector in much the same condition! This stripper/charger of yours have a set of letters on it?
Clearly original, and very nice, the ammunition dates it well too!
Jebber, - I couldn't agree with you more!
I guess that by Azrael's documentation of the one-piece brass clip, it shows that Hans-Dieter Gotz was right again. He illustrates this style clip in "German Military Rifles & Machine Pistols 1871-1945" along with the standard two-piece clips as being used by Germany in WW1. Frankly I had always thought that he had made a mistake on this one but I guess not? Good for him and Uncle Jaque, I've learned a lesson. Thanks Azrael.
You're welcome! It's my pleasure to learn some things on Mausers. I've included some pics. On the clip on the bottom you can see 2 horizontal markings (damage?). How do marked clips look like? Does somebody know what the 4 rounds are like with a sort of canvas wrapped around? Thanks in advance.
Azrael, I am going to say that the four cloth covered rounds have the remnants of a machinegun belt attached to them. What are the markings on the headstamp of these cloth-covered rounds? Are they the same? Neat stuff...
Last edited by Azrael; 09-27-2007 at 04:58 PM. Reason: a default
I'm glad I asked you guys about this! I'm quite impressed with y'all. A wealth of information available here! Now I know what to look for. Thanks to all!
"Americans, why can't everybody be like us"?
Ernie Pyle, Okinawa April 1 1945
first off, sorry to post in a thread that is more then a year old.
Don't know the forum policy on that?
answer to azrael's question:
MAXIM MG-08 1908-1919 7.92 x 57 mm
250-round cloth belt 450 rds/min
MG 15NA BERGMANN 1915-1918 7.92 x 57 mm
200-round metal belt 500 rds/min
MAXIM 08 / 15 1915-1918 7.92 x 57 mm
50-round cloth belt 500 rds/min
PARABELLUM MG17 1916-1918 7.92 x 57 mm
250-round cloth belt 700 rds/min
I've got 3 basic types of stripper clip as shown in the pic:
The German are more rounded along the length edges and have 2 grooves running parallel to the edges, while the Turk are more boxy, and have one raised rib down the center. The earlier mfg years Turk ammo came packed largely on the (better quality) 2 piece strippers, and I've even had some 1939 loaded onto German marked, chrome plated strippers. Later years mfg (1948 & after for my ammo) was packed using the"cheaper" one piece strippers that, while functional, are not nearly as smooth in operation.I've never had to tamper with the tabs on the 1 piece strippers, so have never had any breakage ... yet.
Because of the valuable information posted by Azrael on the early use of the one piece brass stripper clips by Germany in WW1 I am going to make this thread "sticky" for a while. Stripper clips are common items with many variations. Thanks also to Paul (SimsonSuhl) and Uncle Jaque, Jebber and others and especially to abl for bringing it up again.
Last edited by TP; 11-07-2008 at 07:00 AM.
sarco has all kinds of striper clips,and chargers.dutch mauser 93/98 ect,carcano,watch out for the 88s,ones I got were new made and wrong.
For an excellent well illustrated discussion of enbloc clips and chargers in the German service to 1930 see: Erik Windisch et. al., Von der Patrone 88 zur Patrone S: die Deutsche Infanteriepatrone 7,9mm 1888-1930, Wiesendorf, Patronen-Sammler-Vereinigung e.V., 2008, 197 pp., extensively illustrated, available from: www.waffenbuecher.com along with other titles of interest and high quality, including a a treatment of the M71 and M71/84 cartridge.
Last edited by Wapruf2; 02-03-2009 at 09:10 AM. Reason: corrected website address
I ran across a few clips that I assumed were Imperial in a collection of various 8mm ammo I picked up a while ago. There are four that are marked 'P' and are brass with a steel spring. I assume that is Polte.
The other is marked with a crooked 'G'. It has some steel cased '18' dated ammo in it.
There were also a couple of WWII clips (mpu-44 and P327-38) as well as ten clips that for some reason I think I decided were French. They look like the WWII German and are marked 7.92-VE-1-53.
Last edited by Helmer; 02-02-2009 at 10:07 PM.
Helmer, the book CB mentions states "P" equals Polte Magdeburg page 146 (as do others), the book is actually very useful for the clips and chargers/strippers of the Imperial era (the only book there really is!)
I use to have an old chart of makers/dates for the 1934-1945 coding on these sS era strippers, "P" Polte Magneburg is known with the type you show (simply a "P") and these I think are just export strippers as they are just common as hell. The other "P" that are dated can be darn tough, as my articles/charts in the MRJ show (haven't updated it since 2005) "P" come dated from 1937-1941 when they went to "aux".
There was another Polte Werke Gruenberg that also made strippers, P154, they follow the same pattern 1937-1941 when they went to code "auy".
If you are really interested in chargers/strippers of the Imperial era get the book CB mentions, I can send the link for the book if that link doesn’t work for you. If you like the sS era I can send you a copy of my chart of “observed” / known strippers, as I think we took that link down from the website..
I need to update it though. For what its worth, we are running an article on Gewehr88 chargers this issue. A big one, and if I can squeeze it I will do an updated 1934-45 chart.
Last edited by SimsonSuhl; 02-03-2009 at 01:58 PM. Reason: pic
..........WTT post edited...........
Sorry dflyin1, the rules stated at the top of the Military Mauser Forum clearly state that there are no WTB, WTS or WTT posts allowed. Please take them to the Trader here at Gunboards, you will find what you are looking for.
Last edited by TP; 03-07-2009 at 12:26 PM.
Can you please tell me if these clips are Imperial? I recieved 7 full bandos of Turk 8mm some years back and they are all in these clips...Not all the clips are marked, maybe every 4th or 5th...The DM marked clips with 2 nubs are slightly longer...The ammo is '40s dated...All the other small odd lots of Turk ammo I've received over the years were on Brass 1 or 3 pc clips..Thanks much for your help
PS last pic far left clip is a Yugo '50s for comparison the spring is slightly diff from the German clips ..otherwise very hard to tell ...of course the pic showing that is not to be found : (
PPS Sorry I remembered this Interesting clip I found digging through a box of dirty mixed headstamp Turk ...It has been used and used the nubs are worn down and well it was obviousely someones one and only or lucky one..I thought you might like to see one with "character" I've no idea about the markings I thought maybe Long. and Lat. but didnt get to far so maybe a unit designation? any thought would be welcome..I think its nice, been there and with someone kinda thing
Last edited by painterjohn; 06-27-2009 at 06:58 AM. Reason: one more pic
I have about five or six stripper clips that are identical to yours except without markings. I'm sure they are WW2 as my friend gave them to me along with his Kar98k.
The other eight that I have are modern and hold some of my Yugo military ball ammo.
If anyone has 'two bump' mauser clips I'd be happy to trade two standard clips for one 'two bump' clip. The two bump clip is correct for use in Hakims and Egyptian FN49s. The standard 3 bump clip will not seat in the clip slot deep enough to properly strip rounds into the magazine on the FN. I only have about 5-6 2 bump clips.
I've bought a lot of these clips on Gunbroker. They are new production and advertised as for the 6.5mm Swedish Mauser.
I use them in my 1895 Chilean and they work fine with 7mm, should also work for 8mm and 30-06 for the 98's and American Springfields.
They also have two bumps and should fit your FN49
I just purchased a Yugo M 24/47, 7.93 x 57 mm. (8 mm. Mauser) It's stock is Walnut and top fore is Teak, having bottom inletted sling rings, still thick with cosmoline, but TLC will fix that. The bore is bright and sharp, after running a swab through a few times. It has the straight bolt handle, the bolt and receiver are like new, hardly a ware mark, and it's close and tight. Once I work her over, strip it down, and clean up the stock, I'll take some pictures of it and post same. In keeping with the thread, on occasion I get a flier from Century International Arms, the Nov. 09 issue, they have 8 mm. Yugo Ball (198 GR.) 50's mfg., 5 rds. in stripper clips, 15 rds./box @ $4.49, or 900 Rd. cases. I do not know what type of clips the ammo is in, but once my rifle is in service condition, I'll order ammo, and see how she shoots, or how well I hold 'em. And report back on same.
Semper Fi !
Hi, i m new around here and i saw this post, quiet a while ago i made a topic about stripper clips on a French forum, not much answered ( in France it is illegal to have such things...amazing, i agree..)
Well, the question is, does anyone around here could tell me for sure wich era they are, i believe they are WWI but you never know..
Here is the link :
My strippers may go a little off topic but show some variation. I have some that I dont know what they are. I figured this was as good a place as any to post. The first one is out of a bandolere of Radway Green Nato .308
I think the next come from turk ammo or a gunshow bin that was labeled Springfield 30-06 clips.
The same goes for the black clips.
Now to the silver colored ones. I have one at the end that is smaller than the other 3 and one of the larger ones is marked FR
No clue on these. I do know that they work great in my Swede rifles.
FR Fabrica Realengo (Brazil) This is a 7mm Clip, not a G 98 style clip ( different width)
oops. didnt know it was a sticky.
Those pictured are identical to those used by the Turks, nothing rare. I just filled the same 15 with new reloads. Mine came in the loaded bandoliers sold some years ago. Broke down the ammo for components and used the strippers also.
I love those Turkish clips. I bought around 400 rounds of Turkish 8mm on stripper clips in bandoleers a few years back and I've been keeping the clips, because they feed a lot better than the ones I got off some Romanian ammo. Those ones tend to try to stick, but with the brass Turkish ones all I have to do is push down with my thumb. They also reload quick. Think I can actually load the clips as fast as I can the same number of rounds into an AK mag, and if anything the stripper clips might be faster to load into the gun than most of the mags I've used in my AK.
I'd rather be right than politically correct.
looking for PU scopes #b07850, A89721 and PEM #b27948, i have its rifle,
check out the pics of my GECO 1929 tula sniper, 1895 winchester russian contract rifle in 762x54, Remington mosin cadet trainer with 03 lug, New England Westinghouse cadet rifle with US property stamps, 1927 izhvesk dragoon , 1929 izhvesk dragoon, instructie 91/30 rifle, m24 lotta , triple scope number pu sniper and others in my albums