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Thread: wooden bullets

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    Default wooden bullets

    6,5x55 wooden bullets could they be pulled and dump the powder and reload new powder and seat a boattail bullet and crimp or would they need to be resized with a live primer in the case

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    Quote Originally Posted by one shot 1 View Post
    6,5x55 wooden bullets could they be pulled and dump the powder and reload new powder and seat a boattail bullet and crimp or would they need to be resized with a live primer in the case
    VERY important to dump the powder as those a blanks and use a fast powder, unsuitable for use behind a normal bullet.

    Probably need to use a neck-sizing die in the process. NOTE - the rounds might, like US blanks, use cases that are NOT necessarily suitable for live loads.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Pay attention to what Clyde said. He knows what he is talking about.

    Blank cartridges, of any kind, are not something to mess with unless you are an experienced handloader who knows what he is doing.

    Ray

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    samco has them listed as swedish ball ammo with wooden bullet and I thought
    i heard on the forum that these were once fired ammo reloaded as training ammo only a nickel a round cheap but might be trouble they are berdan primed but thats not as frowned upon as much as it used to be

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    Pull bullet out, dump powder out, necksize to remove the crimp (or spitzer can be seated without neck work), reload with your favorite load and go at it.
    One dude just posted recipies in swedish forum using rl17 and cases (same ones you are considering) he bought from my daughter.
    i like to use hornady expander balls (two gradual sizes) when I do these for myself, that way the crimp removal/straightning is more gradual. My rcbs power trim pro also works with a pilot bit, but not as quick as two dies set up in a cheap turret press... Make sure you adjust your de-capper pin so its not trying to push on the bottom of the case. Reason hornady for expander balls - these are shaped better compared to RCBS expander balls for this particular task. What else..., oh I tumble my for a week LIVE (before even removing wooden bullets) as they will be nasty looking once you open that battlepack and boxes inside. Clearly, use your own jugement with that one. About 2% of all the ones i did and my daugher are BOXER primed, without military crimp (and we have done over 12k of these thus far) as far as primers.
    makes me wonder if i should get some more of these before these are gone as I find it Very reasonable $$ for primed brass AND orhers are getting the same idea now. (About 5-10%, depending on the batch, will have dents on the body of the case, right below shoulder area - i set these aside for a barrel warm up loads before trying with specific load for groping). Every single one thus far is dead on 55mm case lenght.







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    how do you pull the bullets I see someone has said they break off in the case and when you say they look nasty can you elaborate are the green or just dirty

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    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...-bullets/page2
    my video is on page 2

    _______________________________
    sometimes both, do you want a picture of what it looks like out of the box?

    hydraulic method to deprime (ebay has these for 6.5x55).
    Tula primers to reload, if you can find these during this craze, before the 'panic' these were around $180 per 5K +shipping +hazmat fee.
    Last edited by KAIFS; 04-18-2013 at 10:05 PM.







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    Good brass have reloaded 100s of them have never had any issues. Good for plinking. I dump powder as it is close to Unique, I use it for 38spcl and 9mm. The wooden bullets are sealed in place I put them in my rock chucker and use pliers to pull them out.

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    I have a lot of these blanks. Like Thousands. Anyone have a Browning barrel ( 1919 or 1917) in 6.5 Swede ? If some one wants some, will be happy to sell - not sure what is fair, $.06-.07 / rd ? The ones I got are all fairly clean and useable as is. They were on Browning belts.

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    here you go...







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    they look pretty ratty just ordered some hope I get better with shipping they are .11 cents each to my house I wouldn't buy these but can't find any ammo under 30.00 a box when you can get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one shot 1 View Post
    ... but can't find any ammo under 30.00 a box when you can get it.
    http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...box&groupid=98 sp
    http://m.sportsmansguide.com/Product...4662&bi=223062 fmj







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    thank you might just order some shipping is reasonable , will have to shoot the mauser this groundhog season

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    There may be something else to consider!
    Do not laugh ... I've seen it and experienced it. The cases may not be of the same quality as of the original "heat" rounds.
    In short ... I once had to pull up some youngster from his shooting position. The guy was bewildered and out of focus. A friend had reloaded 308's for his Fal and had used "blank cases" for this. Those cases, which had a different "copper color", were too weak. The result was a blown out Fal-magazine that was doubled in thickness. The shooter, thank God, wasn't hurt. It was not the first time I had to "pull up" a shooter from his shooting position. One checks the eyes, opens the shirt and looks for blood. Shooters have special guardian angels ... this I know for a fact ... having been a range master for some time ... not my profession, just one of the hobbies that crossed my path in life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big commander View Post
    There may be something else to consider!
    Do not laugh ... I've seen it and experienced it. The cases may not be of the same quality as of the original "heat" rounds.
    In short ... I once had to pull up some youngster from his shooting position. The guy was bewildered and out of focus. A friend had reloaded 308's for his Fal and had used "blank cases" for this. Those cases, which had a different "copper color", were too weak. The result was a blown out Fal-magazine that was doubled in thickness. The shooter, thank God, wasn't hurt. It was not the first time I had to "pull up" a shooter from his shooting position. One checks the eyes, opens the shirt and looks for blood. Shooters have special guardian angels ... this I know for a fact ... having been a range master for some time ... not my profession, just one of the hobbies that crossed my path in life.
    these are once fired twice inspected brass. So it was the 'heat' round, fired, case saved and reloaded with a blank by Norma, from what we know.
    10000% in agreement on 'Shooters have special guardian angels...' - happen to know that one for a fact too.







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    Quote Originally Posted by Big commander View Post
    There may be something else to consider!
    Do not laugh ... I've seen it and experienced it. The cases may not be of the same quality as of the original "heat" rounds.
    In short ... I once had to pull up some youngster from his shooting position. The guy was bewildered and out of focus. A friend had reloaded 308's for his Fal and had used "blank cases" for this. Those cases, which had a different "copper color", were too weak. The result was a blown out Fal-magazine that was doubled in thickness. The shooter, thank God, wasn't hurt. It was not the first time I had to "pull up" a shooter from his shooting position. One checks the eyes, opens the shirt and looks for blood. Shooters have special guardian angels ... this I know for a fact ... having been a range master for some time ... not my profession, just one of the hobbies that crossed my path in life.
    Maybe, to many things in play here. This sounds more like the FAL fired out of battery or a slam fire. I think there is no more risk with these than picking up range brass. As with most things in life you have to ask your self is it worth the risk.

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    i am currently pulling the wooden bullets. from my 2nd batch of samco training ammo.
    it is easy to do. i chuck the wood tip in my drill. that is held on the bench by a vice
    chuck up the wood as close as you can to the case. [ butt up touching]
    at this time i use emery cloth and/or steel wool to clean the case
    then using a plumbers flaring tool, [i drilled out the 3/8" hole to 1/2"] grasp the case and pull "gently"
    i have noticed that when you are cleaning the case with the steel wool, the neck gets heated due to friction. and this helps to loosen the sealent
    after you have removed the wooden bullet, save the powder in a suitable container
    I emailed NORMA. and using the google translator asked if the powder was safe to reuse, after him hawing around for a week
    was told it was ok to use but they do not recomend it. sence there is no data on the type of bullet, velocity, etc...
    so i reloaded 2 rds using 30 grains, it worked out good, upped it to 32. good. upped it to 35
    opps..sticky bolt. dropped it back down to 30 grains for a 120 grain bt spitser. i am having no problems what so ever
    i have shot around 75 reloads so far.
    before starting this. i weighed the wood bullets and weighed the powder as i pulled it.to get an average as to where to start
    i feel the price of the brass makes this a justified risk. and free powder as a bonus
    i pulled 800 rds. and netted 2 1/2 lbs powder. they averaged 20 grains per rd. i figure i have enough powder for 600 rds
    give or take.

    . . . . . . . . . -(@@)- . . . . . . . .
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    Frodo,
    did i read this right:
    you are using powder from the wooden bullet ammo (which is pretty much FAST BURNING powder nearly identical to Alliant Unique Pistol powder) in a once fired 6.5x55 brass with a load of 30gr Unique powder over 120gr jacketed bullet?

    what are these spit out at, over 4000fps?
    You are not worried about excessive pressure with undesirable results?
    you do realize that even people shooting CAST would load around 15gr(and thats higher end) of Unique in 6.5x55? I, personally, would be REALLY worried about shooting this recipe.
    does anyone else here have a comment on this load????







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    >>does anyone else here have a comment on this load???? <<

    Like pilots, there are old handloaders and bold handloaders but there are no old, bold handloaders.
    Just having the powder tilted the wrong way during load development can result in a nasty surprise with the wrong components.
    I have no idea how 30 grains can be safe when only 20 grains was loaded behind a wooden bullet. I am curious how anyone could guess at a 50% load increase with a jacketed bullet and get away with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    sence there is no data on the type of bullet, velocity, etc...
    so i reloaded 2 rds using 30 grains, it worked out good, upped it to 32. good. upped it to 35
    opps..sticky bolt. dropped it back down to 30 grains for a 120 grain bt spitser. i am having no problems what so ever
    i have shot around 75 reloads so far.
    before starting this. i weighed the wood bullets and weighed the powder as i pulled it.to get an average as to where to start
    i feel the price of the brass makes this a justified risk. and free powder as a bonus
    i pulled 800 rds. and netted 2 1/2 lbs powder. they averaged 20 grains per rd. i figure i have enough powder for 600 rds
    give or take.

    My concern would have been rapid pressure, bullet not exiting, however, bolt pieces and/or receiver flying directly into my head or innocent bystanders.
    Its just past my threshold of comfort, but I guess everyone is different.
    After claims of 75rounds with that load I kept wondering if rifling is shot, thus allowing 120gr jacketed bullet to actually travel that long. Or is it chamber that is so nice and tight and excellent, for now, bolt support (that face got to erode eventually at these pressures) which allows firing with 'no signs of pressure'. ???

    Reason for cast or wooden bullets behind pistol fast burning powder was the fact that material could much easily deform and 'mold' itself to the rifling thus allowing for bullet to actually travel thru the barrel length - not to mention decreased friction. With jacketed round, as I said above, in a better scenario, bullet would get 'stuck' inside of your barrel as pressure is looking for a path 'least resistance' at that point and might eventually find that the case and bolt and receiver would be just that - and that is when it might get 'ugly'.
    Just be careful with this experimenting. I actually do NOT say this often but here it goes - I believe this is a truly dangerous and 'do not try at home' scenario especially thru a small ring military mauser!
    Last edited by KAIFS; 04-25-2013 at 07:39 AM.







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    i hear ya kaifs.. thanks for the concern. i do appreciate it. i will take your advice and step down the grains
    to 20. and see how that does. anybody else out there, tried this? your knowledge and input would be welcome

    . . . . . . . . . -(@@)- . . . . . . . .
    . . . . ----o00--()--00o----. . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    i hear ya kaifs.. thanks for the concern. i do appreciate it. i will take your advice and step down the grains
    to 20. and see how that does. anybody else out there, tried this? your knowledge and input would be welcome
    I seriously doubt that there are suvivors left after shooting 30+gr of unique powder with jacketed bullets via small ring mauser ... Or I should say ones with typing hands intact and functional eye sight to see this thread.







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    I'd drop to 15 grains with a proper bullet. And maybe a CAST bullet (lead, not jcketed).
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    [ I seriously doubt that there are survivors left after shooting 30+gr of unique powder with jacketed bullets via small ring mauser ... Or I should say ones with typing hands intact and functional eye sight to see this thread.] The variable here is we don't truly know what the powder is we are assuming something on the order of unique caution is a understatement here

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    exactly, i shot it, i am not dead, my fingers are all here. well 9.5 anyway. lost a 1/2 few years back. and i am not blind
    altho i do need glasses. it is not unique powder. i wish i had the capability to figure the fps. there is a person on this forum that has mentioned he has used this powder before. chime in....let us know your thoughts
    i am dropping down the grains. i got sticky bolt at 35 grains and dropped back to 30. i will drop again to 25. but what is that going to tell me? if i cant figure fps? i do know that at 30, i shot a target at 50 yards, went thru the 3/4 ply... traveled 5ft. went thru a 4" pine tree. traveled 1 ft and went into a pine tree 3"

    i am approaching this with caution. not just runnin and gunnen if my caution is not caution enough, help me figure it out.
    kaifs, what are you doing with the powder you get out of your wood bullets? send it to me..ill pay the ship and the haz mat
    dont throw it away

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    Frodo, you may want to drop the idea of reloading so you can keep all those fingers and toes. I hear theres a vacancy for a Elvis impersonator down Tupelo way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    it is not unique powder.
    it truly probably is, but you know best, so I surrender.
    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    i wish i had the capability to figure the fps.
    its called a chronograph. http://www.midwayusa.com/find?newcat...mensionid=4024 even a beginner reloader knows how to measure FPS (aka bullet velocity) - so i would probably suggest reading a bit about reloading.
    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    there is a person on this forum that has mentioned he has used this powder before. chime in....let us know your thoughts
    yes, very experienced 35+ years (reloading) or so AND a Swedish Mauser expert by the name of Dutchman and he reloads cast and pistol with this Gevärsexerciskrut 1 Swedish powder from gallery and blank rounds, or so I understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    i am approaching this with caution. not just runnin and gunnen if my caution is not caution enough, help me figure it out.
    if you compare Unique powder and Gevärsexerciskrut 1 powder, you will find out that its almost identical (I know I gave up on the whole Unique similarity above) and I mean: load cast bullet with unique (lets say 10gr) and Gevärsexerciskrut 1 = see what your chronograph shows, research and conduct a little 'home brew' burn test with both, compare pressures with the cast bullets (exercise 1) by seeing if these hit the same point of impact...
    So, if some believe 'this powder' is 'very similar' to a Unique = no one will want to help you out to hurt yourself. Thus silence from much more experienced reloaders (and i do not put myself into that category) is perhaps doing you a favor.
    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    kaifs, what are you doing with the powder you get out of your wood bullets? send it to me..ill pay the ship and the haz mat
    dont throw it away
    I trade my powder to cast bullet and pistol reloading friends for large rifle powder at the ratio of my 2lbs 'mystery powder' for 1lb RL22, H4831SC, Varget and certain VV powders. So I will not take you up on the offer to give the powder to you - not because I do not like you but because I have other uses for it.
    ___________________________
    i really think it might not be a bad idea to learn a bit more about reloading. Excessive pressures. What Swedish Mausers are rated for as far as PSI. what is the difference in pressures, velocity and risks for the rifles with your variables based on the barrel length (M94, M38, M96). I am glad you are taking it slow - thus the reason I took time to actually type this. its not me being condescending, its a worry that a fellow gun enthusiast would somehow hurt himself/herself and I did not offer enough warning/advise based on my limited experience.

    Now that I have offered my suggestions and warning - good luck and enjoy!







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    Quote Originally Posted by KAIFS View Post
    ___________________________
    i really think it might not be a bad idea to learn a bit more about reloading. Excessive pressures. What Swedish Mausers are rated for as far as PSI. what is the difference in pressures, velocity and risks for the rifles with your variables based on the barrel length (M94, M38, M96). I am glad you are taking it slow - thus the reason I took time to actually type this. its not me being condescending, its a worry that a fellow gun enthusiast would somehow hurt himself/herself and I did not offer enough warning/advise based on my limited experience.
    i disagree 100 % that i have not a "bit" more to lean about reloading but rather a "whole lot" more,
    and i appreciate your concern about my safety and well being.
    your suggestion on a chronograph is valid and helpful information. and i think it will be-hoove me to suspend my reloading until i purchase one.
    I understand that you do not think it wise to use this powder. I disagree, I am wanting to go slow, purchase a chronograph
    and figure it out. I do not see the harm in going slow and figuring out a solution to a problem....thats kinda how this great country of ours was built. hard working, hard headed, God fearing men.. when i get the chronograph, I will welcome yours and others helpful advice ciphering the data............ lord knows i need it.......

    . . . . . . . . . -(@@)- . . . . . . . .
    . . . . ----o00--()--00o----. . . .

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    Well they arrived today and they look just like the ones KAIFS pictured in the previous reply he says he tumbles for a week but I will go about 6 hours and see then steel wool and the drill , just wondering has anybody received the blank firing device and used it looks like it would clog up rather fast .

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    i have 2 of the blank devices, but i didnt use it when shooting the wood bullets. they seem to come apart and disappear around 20 ft or so.

    . . . . . . . . . -(@@)- . . . . . . . .
    . . . . ----o00--()--00o----. . . .

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    Well it seems samco over charged me on the shipping and today I received a check refunding me 11.00 so this deal is getting better and I have pulled about 400 bullets and reloaded the brass as needed very nice brass that loads easy . In todays world I must say samco is a topnotch outfit selling at fair prices they have my vote I will order more soon.

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    Just a note to any new reloaders that may be reading this threads... What Frodo is doing is incredibly unsafe, unwise and irresponsible. Using an unknown powder without load data is a major violation of various safety rules ... The comment "i feel the price of the brass makes this a justified risk. and free powder as a bonus" shows he has no sense, well, no sense at all, but no sense of responsibility to his family or anybody who might be around when he does this incredibly stupid stuff .. He may be permanently damaging the rifle due to repeated excessive pressure. So if you see a rifle up for sale by this individual I would steer clear , you cannot know how it has been abused or how many time it has been shot with overloads.

    Despite his protests that he is going slow ( slow as in 5 grain increments , yeah right) and is being cautious just further shows he doesn't have a clue as to what slow or cautious means ...

    It is my considered opinion that anybody contributing or advising or assisting Frodo in his death wish is being irresponsible as well .. Other than warning people off , I don't think anybody should be posting to this thread. Frodo has made it abundantly clear he has no intention whatsoever of taking any sound or reasonable advice and is hell bent to do what he wants to do .. I say post your warnings and disapprovals and do not even hope somebody who is so willfully ignorant and persistently unsafe will ever listen, or take good advice or sound counsel...

    I strongly recommend that any responsible moderator delete this thread completely just incase some newbie fool decides to listen to very irresponsible advice.

    This is so wrong on so many levels and I don't think any sane or responsible person could argue with that fact.

    Frodo is looking for approval for what he is doing, so those that "help" him can share the blame when something goes wrong, period, so Froda can say , well, so and so on Gunboards reloading forum said I could do it this way. It should be clear by now that he is not interested in safety, caution, or advice. Only in doing what he wants to do regardless of consequences and doesn't care who he drags into to this or how anybody helping him might feel if something he does goes horribly wrong... don't be a fool's "buddy".. especially when that fool does not care about consequences ...

    Let Frodo's plans and what he has said in reply to good advice stand as a mark of the Man and his character and just walk away.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 05-14-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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    This may sound weird but they're blanks, not live rounds- will they chamber in an 8mm chamber and is the base of the round the same? Thinking of seeing if they'll run as blanks in my 8mm MG?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG08/15 View Post
    I have a lot of these blanks. Like Thousands. Anyone have a Browning barrel ( 1919 or 1917) in 6.5 Swede ? If some one wants some, will be happy to sell - not sure what is fair, $.06-.07 / rd ? The ones I got are all fairly clean and useable as is. They were on Browning belts.
    I would be interested if we can get these to run an 8mm mauser MG, an 08- I'm just wondering if the base is the same, I know the round isn't, but it's a little shorter but may fit in chamber if the round is close enough at the base. I can run wood tip blanks, and the heavy receiver of the Maxim ought to protect or cover from any gas blast back, at least from experimenting?

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    The base of a 6.5x55 round is larger in diameter than 7.92mm. They may not chamber. You might be able to run 30-06 blanks thru a 8mm fill length size die...then run them in a MG.
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    Regarding Blanks for a Maxim 08 or 08/15: One can use Normal 7,9 crimped case blank, with a Stripless belt ( a Vickers type) but then you must use a Blank cartridge discriminator in the Feed Block, to hold cartridges and belt against the back wall of the feedblock (so the extractor Gib can pick up the shells;
    If you simply size 30/06 cases, and leave a short "false Bullet" Profile, you still need a (different) feed Discriminator. If you have proper Maxim or Vickers "Tabbed" belts ( brass or steel) then no discrimiator is requitred.

    As to the use of 6,5Swede Wood bullet blank: Swede cases are .475-.480 at head diameter, 7,9 cases are .470-.471 Diameter. "Jamming Fit" ( Ie, the Maxim block will slam the cartridge into the chamber, and it may or may not lock...if it fires, it may "discombobulate" the entire Lock etc. AS well, the 6,5 case is shorter (no headspace contact) and your cases will rupture as well (more gas through action). Either get a proper 6,5 Chambered Maxim Barrel ( and probably a enlarged Extractor Gib strip as well) or forget about using 6,5 Blanks in a MG08 etc.

    As to the cases used in Swedish 6,5 Blanks: They are mostly new brass, or Ball brass recycled into Blanks (re-loaded) They are mostly Berdan-primed (.217", Tula at Dagammo).
    In regards to the .308 made from "blanks" the US 7.62 M82 Blank is a separate design case from Ball, and has an extended profile, which must be cut off to use in the normal (51mm) length. Blank M82 Cases are not made to the same metallurgy as the Ball M80 cases. Hence, use only for blanks.... US 30/06 Blanks were made from normal .30cal cases, and even broken down ammo or reloads. So .30 M1909 Blanks ( wadded type) can safely be used for Ball loading.

    Running Blanks is a fine art, with a long learning curve...the more complex the gun ( ie , MGs) the more there is that can go wrong ( ie, the Film gunner's Murphy's Law.)

    Regards,
    Doc AV

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    383

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    Thanks Doc! I just had a wild hair idea reading the post about the available 6.5 wood bullet blanks! I've shot 8mm (7.92) wood bullet blanks, .30-06 crimped long nose blanks (with a .30-06 blank barrel and a "hollywood" type blank adaptor, and the standard type blank adaptor) and 7.62x54 R crimped blanks (with a conversion for the gun) through my 08 and 08/15's, so I'm no stranger to the different types of blanks and the maxims, but I've never tried / bought these 6.5 Sweede blanks. Would love to find more good cheap 7.92 Mauser wood bullet blanks, but cheap ones in quantity aren't common any more. (Anyone other than me remember how cheap Paragon used to sell the East German and Egyptian Wood Bullet blanks? I've still got the ads- $50 per thousand...) I didn't know what the size of the base of these rounds was in relation to the 7.92 round, obviously .30-06 to 7.92 worked, wasn't sure if that would!
    t

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