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    Default Difference in M.88 and M.88-90?

    Can you guys tell me the difference between these two rifles? I am unsure if there is anything more of a difference between the sights or if that is the extent of the difference. Or if there is more?

    Any and all help is appreciated.
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    We Marines believe that God gave America the greatest gift he could bestow to man while he lived on this earth-freedom. We also believe he gave us another gift nearly as precious-our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines-to safeguard that gift and
    guarantee no force on this earth can every steal it away. It has been my distinct honor to have been with you here today. Rest assured our America, this experiment in democracy started over two centuries ago, will forever remain the "land of the free and home of the brave" so long as we never run out of tough young Americans who are willing to look beyond their own self-interest and comfortable lives, and go into the darkest and most dangerous places on earth to hunt down, and kill, those who would do us harm.
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    Only one, graduations of rear sight:
    1. 2500 schritt max for M.88,
    2. 3000 max for M.88-90


    To create a M.88-90, the M.88 sights were augmented with additional plates. See below the two ways this was done:





    And, anticipating the next question - differences between M.88-90 and M.90, here is another comparison. Left is M.88-90, right is M.90:

    Last edited by Nick; 02-28-2008 at 04:44 PM.
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    The M.88-90 was also intended to be used with the semi-smokeless 8mm M.90 scharfe Patrone which used a 52mm case as opposed to the M.88 scharfe Patrone's 50mm case.


    The M.93 scharfe Patone reverted to the 50mm case but as all A-H Mannlicher rifles had very "generous" throats in their barrels they could use the shorter or longer cartridge interchangeably.
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    This might be a stupid question, but what was the chronology of these two weapons, in regards, to their designations. To put it more plainly, did they:

    1. Adopt the 88-90 sights to make 88-90's, and then make the 90's exclusively?
    2. Design the 90 with the different barrel contour and sights, then retrofit all the 88's to make the 88-90's?
    Last edited by USMCsean; 02-28-2008 at 06:24 PM.
    Semper Fi,
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    We Marines believe that God gave America the greatest gift he could bestow to man while he lived on this earth-freedom. We also believe he gave us another gift nearly as precious-our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines-to safeguard that gift and
    guarantee no force on this earth can every steal it away. It has been my distinct honor to have been with you here today. Rest assured our America, this experiment in democracy started over two centuries ago, will forever remain the "land of the free and home of the brave" so long as we never run out of tough young Americans who are willing to look beyond their own self-interest and comfortable lives, and go into the darkest and most dangerous places on earth to hunt down, and kill, those who would do us harm.
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    According to the book (Look! I have books like a Real Collector!), they upgraded the 88s with 90 sights, then produced new rifles with the 90 sights already installed and called it the 90.

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    Also 88-90 sights go to 3000 and have side plates added to the sight and the 90 has NO side plates added but the sights go to 3000.
    dg13
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    I might also add that there is the 86, 86-90, 88 ,88-90 , 90, and the 88-90-14. They did this to make it more exciting for collectors so they would spend a small fortune to have a complete collection.
    dg13
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    Yo Gents,

    Don't forget that per Nick's excellent photos, the chamber of the M90 was beefed up in design to handler the higher pressures of the new cartridge.

    When I get home I'll try and remember to post comparative photos of the M86, M86/90, M88/90 and M90. This is why it's near impossible to find an original Austro-Hungarian issue Model 1886 Mannlicher. The remaining rifles that had not been exported were converted to the 8mm cartridge. I have two examples in my collection.

    Great photos Nick!

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

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    Quote Originally Posted by dg13 View Post
    I might also add that there is the 86, 86-90, 88 ,88-90 , 90, and the 88-90-14. They did this to make it more exciting for collectors so they would spend a small fortune to have a complete collection.
    dg13
    I'm still laughing over this one! Thanks DG!
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    Don't forget the 88-24!
    Semper Fi,
    Sean



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    We Marines believe that God gave America the greatest gift he could bestow to man while he lived on this earth-freedom. We also believe he gave us another gift nearly as precious-our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines-to safeguard that gift and
    guarantee no force on this earth can every steal it away. It has been my distinct honor to have been with you here today. Rest assured our America, this experiment in democracy started over two centuries ago, will forever remain the "land of the free and home of the brave" so long as we never run out of tough young Americans who are willing to look beyond their own self-interest and comfortable lives, and go into the darkest and most dangerous places on earth to hunt down, and kill, those who would do us harm.
    Nov 13, 2010 Lt General John Kelly, USMC

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    I'm still laughing over this one! Thanks DG!

    Darrell had me laughing too Mike.........right up to the "small fortune" part!

    Amen on that account DG!

    JPS

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    But you are forgetting the M.88-90 S:



    Now, this one is hard to find!
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Updated for 8x56?
    Semper Fi,
    Sean



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    We Marines believe that God gave America the greatest gift he could bestow to man while he lived on this earth-freedom. We also believe he gave us another gift nearly as precious-our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines-to safeguard that gift and
    guarantee no force on this earth can every steal it away. It has been my distinct honor to have been with you here today. Rest assured our America, this experiment in democracy started over two centuries ago, will forever remain the "land of the free and home of the brave" so long as we never run out of tough young Americans who are willing to look beyond their own self-interest and comfortable lives, and go into the darkest and most dangerous places on earth to hunt down, and kill, those who would do us harm.
    Nov 13, 2010 Lt General John Kelly, USMC

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    Quote Originally Posted by USMCsean View Post
    Updated for 8x56?
    Yep:

    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    8X56R? Kiss your rotator cuff goodbye! :D

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    With the wedge-lock, shouldn't you be more worried about it Ross-ing on you? I thought the reason they stuck with the 8x50R in WW1 was to keep ammo commonality with the older and weaker actions.

    Still, neat, and I want one even though I know nothing about it.

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    Yeah, I'll just add it to the list. Right now, and for quite some time, I've focused in four areas. Mannlicher Steyrs, Mosins, Swiss rifles, and Swedes. And I love them all the same. All are even interrelated and have been used by the other countries at some point in time.
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    We Marines believe that God gave America the greatest gift he could bestow to man while he lived on this earth-freedom. We also believe he gave us another gift nearly as precious-our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines-to safeguard that gift and
    guarantee no force on this earth can every steal it away. It has been my distinct honor to have been with you here today. Rest assured our America, this experiment in democracy started over two centuries ago, will forever remain the "land of the free and home of the brave" so long as we never run out of tough young Americans who are willing to look beyond their own self-interest and comfortable lives, and go into the darkest and most dangerous places on earth to hunt down, and kill, those who would do us harm.
    Nov 13, 2010 Lt General John Kelly, USMC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaarok View Post
    With the wedge-lock, shouldn't you be more worried about it Ross-ing on you?.
    Wedge-lock bolts, just a few examples (OK, they are called tilt-bolts, the same thing in essence): MAS 49, SKS 45, BREN... Were their users worried? Don't think so.

    Asymmetric locking, locking with the rear end rather than the forward end, etc. Really, really bad design and backward, too, say some writers. I kind of disagree with that, however. It's the execution of the principle that matters, not some theoretical advantage/disadvantage.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

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    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    8X56R? Kiss your rotator cuff goodbye! :D
    No deaths or injuries were ever reported in Bulgaria, the apparent converter and user of these rifles. So I ain't kissin' nuthin'! :eek:
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    No deaths or injuries were ever reported in Bulgaria, the apparent converter and user of these rifles. So I ain't kissin' nuthin'! :eek:
    Yes, but apparently, they kick like hell. A mosin will mess up your shoulder while functioning perfectly well. This round is even tougher and in a smaller rifle. Hottest service cartridge out there iirc.
    Last edited by Comrade Antibiotika; 02-29-2008 at 03:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Antibiotika View Post
    ... and in a smaller rifle. ...
    M.88 a "smaller rifle"? What are you talking about, have you ever held one in your hands? That thing is way heavier than any other service rifle.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Yo Gents,

    If we want to get picky, you can also add the Model 1888/95 which was the nomenclature according to Joschi and Heino when Model 88s were rebarreled during the war with M95 barrels and rear sights.

    Regarding recoil, you Gents must be joking??? None of these rifles is that bad and certainly won't cause any lasting damage to your rotator cuff or otherwise if you use proper shooting form!

    Case in point here is one of my 95 lb clients with the lion she shot with my Sako .375H&H. I have fired everything up to and including the .500 NE 3" and the 460 Weatherby on a regular basis without incident. I dated a little gal in Zim for a while who was about 5'2" and 110 pounds. She could fire 50 rounds of .458 Win Mag per session from the bench without flinching or pulling a single shot. The ability to handle recoil is LEARNED.

    I'll get off my soap box now!

    Getting back on topic, I also have an S marked cut down Bulgarian marked M88 that I picked up from Darrell. I have shot it a couple of times with light handloads, but would not care to shoot full house military loads in it based on both the action design and the age of the rifle. Still, I have never heard of one of these rifles "letting go", but wouldn't want to be the first confirmed case either!

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
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    Last edited by JPS; 02-29-2008 at 07:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    M.88 a "smaller rifle"? What are you talking about, have you ever held one in your hands? That thing is way heavier than any other service rifle.
    Oh, these are actually full length rifles, that's right, not the little stutzens that are floating around now.

    As i've only been shooting full powered rifles for... 18 or so months now given that i got my SMLE No.4 Mk 1 and M44 Mosin in august of 2006, i notice in a relatively compressed period of time how my recoil tolerance(and proper form holding a rifle) has changed- from 10 rounds in a rifle making my shoulder sore for 3 days to 40 rounds not bothering me one bit after leaving the range.
    Last edited by Comrade Antibiotika; 02-29-2008 at 08:19 PM.
    RIP BBQ Sam

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPS View Post
    Yo Gents,

    Regarding recoil, you Gents must be joking???
    Yes, I was. :D But everyone knows that this telltale "S" stands for either "stout" or "Standback!".
    Last edited by John Wall; 03-01-2008 at 08:29 AM.

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    John: is she still one of your clients? And she married? If not you really ought to introduce us. Hey, you can't blame a guy for trying, I've been divorced for 15 years and am almost (?) ready to settle down again.
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.
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