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Viet Nam Capture Sniper Rifles

14K views 42 replies 24 participants last post by  xarmor 
#1 ·
Are there any Viet Nam capture sniper rifles in this forum ?? Any good stories to go along with them ??
 
#2 ·
The only good war story I know about Viet nam capture sniper rifles were the two I passed up in 1975. There was a gun shop in Phoenix (Gunsmoke Gun Shop) who carried a lot of militaria. The owner had two 91/30 snipers with capture papers, each was $225.00. And I thought, "Neat rifles but for another $75.00 I can buy a REALLY cool AR-15". Duuuuuuuuuuuuuumb
 
#3 ·
Vet bring back

Years ago I picked up a 91/30 sniper that came from Vietnam. A guy I used to work with was in the Navy on a supply ship off Vietnam and got the rifle in a trade. He brought it home to use for deer hunting. It is a Izhevsk 1943 sn# KK4048 with a laminated stock. I believe it is refurbished. There are no import marks on it. He told me that his no good ex-roomate had run off with the scope so he thought he would get rid of it. I offered him $125 for it and he jumped at it. My brother the gunsmith had a PU scope it his large collection of odds and ends. $75 later and it was mine. Imagine his surprise when I produced the rifle and attached the scope to it. With very little adjustment, it is a fine shooting rifle. The scope I believe is a good match for the rifle. The scope is marked with a star , hammer and sickle over sort of a crescent, 91/30, and the sn# No.5-156161. Boy was I lucky with that one. Cheers
 
#4 · (Edited)
Since what I collect is Vietnam bringback snipers (and they have gotten really scarce lately), I have a few and most have stories, as I ask for them. Some were cache pieces, one a Vz57 came out of a bunker after an action, and one, a 91/30, came with the following written story:

"The sniper rifle was taken while I was on detached duty from the 5th Marines, serving in a C.A. P. unit in Quan Nam Province at Duc-Duc and Duc Thaim district in 1969. The NVA sniper team had been creating havoc with the troops of the 5th and 11th Marines around the An Hoa Combat Base. Several major attempts had been mounted against them by conventional serach methods from the 5th Marines. But to no avail, the sniper team eluded all operations against them.

Our C.A.P. unit received an intelligence report that the team would be in our area to terminate the USMC presence and to show the NVA power in the area. We set up an ambush site in an area we figured would be a good sniper spot. After a day wait, the sniper team consisting of two individuals with three support troops with them (sic). One VC and one NVA came into the ambush site at which time the ambush was sprung on them, killing all five. Photographs were made. Documents and Identification were taken. The sniper was of Eurasian stature while his team mate was Chinese. The three support troops were Vietnamese."

The rifle came with safe conduct passes the sniper team was carrying as well as a photo of the sniper team after the ambush.
 
#7 ·
Naw, Frenchy is hanging onto that one for dear life (tho if you ever change your mind Frenchy...). This one is from another Marine who was a collector in VN. He brought back everything from this sniper to an rpg to a Mak to a Tok...you name it. Uniforms, his Winchester Model 12 trenchgun, belts, etc. He gave me letters on most everything - 16 years later I still have everything. I also have original issues of Leatherneck magazine where he is written about. To me he is a true hero, 5 years incountry, did missions with SOG...I am proud to be the caretaker of his history.

Mike, I looked and amazing as it seems the only photo of this 91/30 I have is of the buttstock only and also of the cleaning kit they took. It was the first sniper I ever got and at that time we didn't have digital cameras, so somewhere in a box are other photos.
 
#8 ·
I pulled one out of a cache along with a PPSH 43 and a MAT 49.
Looked like they had been stashed there and left.

I had collected arms before my service and at the time MNs were so poorly regarded I never really gave it a second look. I THINK it had the larger type scope.
I gave it to my guys to turn in for the reward.
I kept the PPSH and MAT 49 for a while and cleaned them up. The MAT was neat with the folding mag.
Finally threw them in on a trade along with some "genyoowine" VC flags and crossbows to a 130 crew for a load of chow.
 
#11 ·
Willy P and Richard from NY have great VC collections. I hope they post. I had two sterilized 91/30 PU's a long time back. One Hungarian and one Russian that I sold. I wish I kept them now.
 
#15 ·
Willy P and Richard from NY have great VC collections. I hope they post...
Since Vic is being so nice, I had to post something! :) At the moment, I don't have any photos handy of anything in my collection, but here's one of the nicest Vietnam bringback snipers you are ever going to see. It's on display at the West Point Museum and was presented to the Military Academy in 1965, having been captured by the 173rd Airborne Brigade.
 
#14 · (Edited)
This has been posted before, but here is a few poor shots of my Hungarian alleged RVN bring back. It had half of a scope cover, fungus growing inside the scope, scrubbed Soviet scope markings, Soviet base, era looking stock repair(?teak) and matching well marked M-52/02 parts. Has the look, no papers and a simple story---bought from a vet in 1969.
 
#16 ·
In a somewhat related topic..., if you are in, or visiting the Columbus, Ohio area be sure to visit the Motts Military Museum. It is located southeast of Columbus on Hamilton Road in Groveport, Ohio. It is a private museum dedicated to soldier memorabilia from the Civil War through modern times. Warren Motts and his wife operate the non-profit museum.
I did not count them, but there are several examples each SKS, T53 and PU sniper capture rifles as well as many other interestig items. The Vietnam War section is still under construction so you may have to ask to see it.
Many other firearms and ordnance including a tank that Arnold Schwarzenegger operated in the Austrian military service and some other captured Russian artillery captured in Iraq or Afghanistan.
http://www.mottsmilitarymuseum.org/arnold.html

Home page.
http://www.mottsmilitarymuseum.org/
 
#17 ·
Hungarian sniper

No capture papers or story, but the stock is well worn, and the rifle has the look. I bought it without the scope (and without the story). I put on the 91/30 scope I just got off evil-pay (the base was on the rifle when I got it, and is 02 marked). All other parts are 02 marked, and serials match except the bolt, which is the same prefix, but a later number. If I had to bet on it, I would bet it was a bringback. Bringback or not, it is the crown jewel of my humble collection.

Doug
 
#18 · (Edited)
I have a PE scoped Mosin that has the original capture papers. Its an odd combo in that it has a '37 dated rifle with a '37 dated scope from an uncommon optics group in Russia for that time, as if it was a very early side-mount prototype or early production. At least this is what I have had conversations about with a few guys.
However, it has papers stating it was brought in this way and it was pricey when I got it of course. Any of you guys hear of any non-PU Mosin snipers brought back with papers?

Cheers!
 
#21 · (Edited)
Here's a picture of my PE scoped Mosin that has the original capture papers. Its an odd combo in that it has a '37 dated rifle with a '37 dated scope from an uncommon optics group in Russia for that time, as if it was a very early side-mount prototype or early production. At least this is what I have had conversations about with a few guys.
However, it has papers stating it was brought in this way and it was pricey when I got it of course. Any of you guys hear of any non-PU Mosin snipers brought back with papers?

Cheers!
There are PE scoped snipers that were captured in Vietnam - I have looked for a legit one for years. As I mentioned above, there is a photo of one in a book called Chicom. This one - I don't know how to say this so I'll just let 'er rip. I used to own that PE scoped sniper (at least the sn of the scope matches the one I had), and I returned it to the person I bought it from, Matthew Siler (MRNVA) as I felt it was a fake. He took the return, never refunded me any of my money for it and it looks as if he sold it to you. When he sold it again he knew I felt it was a fake - I pointed out all the discrepancies to him and returned it for his "full lifetime satisfaction return policy only us honest dealers can offer". The capture document was extremely dubious and not a good effort at all and the cut for the scope base was very fresh if you looked closely at the front of it. I am attaching a photo I took of the base just before I returned it to Mr Siler - it was not a good fit to the mount at all and looked to be freshly machined. Siler has sold weapons of all types with faked capture papers - Makarovs, other pistols, a CR39, and I think that Vz52 on GB is another fake of his. He's had some great items and I got a lot of good VN collectables from him but he has sold a lot of bad items and IMO he faked the paper himself. Just my opinion, but I steer clear of MRNVA. Any questions you are welcome to please PM me.
 

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#23 ·
Ditto.
 
#24 ·
It was a hassle to legally get a souvenier piece out of Vietnam.
Lots of paperwork and waiting.
Both my tours you were allowed one each souvenier.
SKS were OK, but often they made guys remove the bayonet.

There are stories of naval and airforce folks being able to smuggle out pieces.
For the GI it was really difficult.
I have seen a .45 that was "souveniered" back in a jungle fatigue pocket by "some guy".
It was funny to see the masses of military people crowding airports in those days, many with a slung souvenier.

Lots of the paperwork got discarded over the years like other things.
 
#28 ·
:eek: When I was in Viet Nam i was in a recon platoon. We captured three M/Ns,....1 was a Pem and the other two were PUs. along with other odds and ends. We had a choice, that if we wanted one of the guns,...you had to carry it out...since we had no time line to the end of the mission. no takers so all supplies and weapons were burned on the spot.
Now years later these weapons are worth BIG BUCKS. Sorry, if you what them they are in the Bong Son valley. They might be a little rusty and warped, :( but they are freefor the taking.......theo
 
#29 ·
A few years ago I picked up a M20 Tokarev from a vet still in his GI sock. Wish I had kept it. Last gun show a friend of mine picked up a non import Chinese Tokarev with a bullet through the slide for $75 :(
 
#30 · (Edited)
Regarding the '37 PE rifle: Since the papers looked okay I separated the idea of Russian orginality versus original bring-back. I regarded it from the beginning as something that the Vietnamese made and not something that was kept as a Russian original of course. Like the Vietnamese SKS, it probably doesn't have too many true Vietnamese parts (if any) but they either through assembly or rework they felt they wanted to put their stamp on it and that's why we have that varient around.
Thanks for your information, we can't be too careful in this type of collecting. I have many bring-backs to include several from Matt, they are all okay so far but it is possible one can slip by that isn't correct at least once in a long time.
 
#31 ·
Russ:

Are you going to keep the sniper in question or did you try to take advantage of the "Lifetime Return Guarantee"? I'm curious if you had better luck than fellow poster Badash.
 
#32 ·
I'm talking to Badash on the side to get another opinion for now. However, I haven't talked to the seller for some time so I really don't know how to track him down yet.
I have actually returned something in the past (several years ago) with no questions but haven't considered this one yet. I haven't had contact with the seller for some time.

Since my sniper collection is getting fairly large I considered moving this one along anyway due to the fact that I have an original all matching side mount and I don't need this one for that reason anymore. My reputation is and should always be perfect so I need to be careful. On the other hand with respect to this rifle, taken in the context that I did when it was bought (not Russian original just Vietnamese assembled) it has credability. I'm still investigating behind the scene here.

I would just have to be very clear in any ad I would put out when it comes time to sell it. PM me for any suggestions you guys may have!

Thanks!
 
#33 ·
I just posted a Hungarian VN bringback sniper on GunBroker for sale. There are no capture papers, and just a story I got from a friend who sold it to me. He bought it from the soldier. The rifle is all original, not rebuilt with all correct marks. The scope is a Russian replacement. From shrapnel tracks in the stock, you can tell that the original scope was taken out. Also shows some other battle damage, including a chunk blown out of the bolt handle.
 
#35 ·
I don't have the full Vietnam story on this rifle, but it is a Hungarian M/52, meaning it wasn't imported. It could only have been a bring back. It has the correct Hungarian scope.

I know this rifle has a lot of history locked into it. I just can't resist, so I shoot it. I bought it originally to sell, so I could replace the things I gave up for it and make some cash, but it sits in my safe and makes occasional range trips. Its a great shooter, since the scope is so crisp and clear.













 
#38 ·
I saw two in '67/'68 brought into MACV Kontum. Both damaged with one being bent and most of the wood missing. The damage was fresh as the under wood was still clean. Most of the NVA/VC snipers killed around Kontum City at this time used M16 or SKS rifles.

Like the man said we had such a low opinion of them I gave them little notice.

Now in June '68 a partial scoped auto rifle was brought in along with a body of round eyed Slovic nature KIA from the border area West of Dak To. I did not see the rifle or body and got the story from my counter part in the arms room at SOG Kontum the next day. By then everyone had a version of the story and it had grown with each telling.

Nice pictures gents.

..MJ..
 
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