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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    759

    Default COL Too Long Tok's 7.62x25

    I loaded up some S&B and PPU cases with Hornady XTP .309 90g #31000 with .COL 1.320". I crimped them with Lee Factory Crimp.
    In my M57 I am getting some not seating all the way in the barrel and all are sticking ever so lightly. I removed the barrel and am just sticking them in. The bullet where is just starts to taper is where its sticking, its still .309 at that point. None of the reloads will even come close to chambering in my Russian TT33 with the same problem. My dummy round cycled but I didn't check for sticking when I tried it (should of).

    Its not correct to have the bullet touching the chamber and I need to correct.

    I need to seat the bullet deeper to get the .309" part of the bullet to clear the chamber. The book calls for 1.320 COL. How much shorted COL can I go not run into seating depth problems?

    As I have already done a mild Factory Crimp can I just seat them deeper and re Factory Crimp?

    Now I know why Eastern Blocks Countries use .306" bullets.
    Last edited by landtoy80; 12-09-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    564

    Default

    One thing that you may want to try is "painting" one of your rounds with a sharpie pen. Make it a dummy with no primer/powder. Let the slide push the bullet into the chamber with a liitle bit of force, but not enough to get it stuck if you can. Take it out, and see where the black is rubbed off. You should be able to tell where your pinchpoint is. It may be the case also. If your bullet has 4 or so marks on the ogive spaced equally then it is obviously hitting the rifling. Back your bullet up untill it sits .002 off the rifling, and that is your max COL. Any longer will engage the rifling and possibly push the bullet back into the case.

    As far as pushing them back after crimping, try on and see how it works. Worst case, you ruin 1 round and have to yank and resize the rest.

    In the end, you may need a different bullet altogether.
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  3. #3
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    Dec 1969
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    Default

    Did the Sharpy marker test, thats how I found where it was making contact. Yes its hitting the rifling.

  4. #4
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    May 2008
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    Default

    You may not be able to use that bullet. The ogive may not taper quick enough to avoid getting hung up in the rifling. Have you considered using cast? They're cheap, accurate and easier on your barrel.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    759

    Default

    My bore is .312. To get the a fat dia bullet to chanber at the neck would require neck turning thus the reason I gave up on converting 223 cases to 7.62x25 as the neck wast too tight.

    I got my col to 1.314 to 1.315 and no more bullet contact in chamber. Is this going to have an affect on pressure going deeper?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Default

    If I had to guess I wouldn't think a few thousands would make a whole lotta difference. Some cartridges are more critical than others, like 9mm which runs at a higher pressure than most autoloading rounds to begin with. Slight changes in each bullet's ogive as a matter of manufacturing would change the seating depth a few thousandths one way or another without ill effect. Obviously work up and approach max loads with extra caution.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Northwest Ohio
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Schuttig View Post
    Have you considered using cast? They're cheap, accurate and easier on your barrel.
    I have found using commercial cast bullets in my Broomhandle, my Tokarev, and in my CZ52 (I use ammunition loaded to 7.63 Mauser specs in all my handloads in this 'common caliber' to avoid crossover boo-boos) while driving the bullets into the 1200+ FPS range created some REALY NASTY leading problems in my broom, and the other pistols weren't immune to it, either.

    It is either jacketed or copper-coated bullets for me in THIS caliber, and I am getting rid of my cast bullets in my Nagant.

  8. #8
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    May 2008
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    Default

    Were they sized to a minimum of bore diameter? With good lube, properly sized cast bullets shouldn't lead. I've pushed both the CZ and m57 tok to the max without problem, but then again each gun is different and yours may have some light corrosive ammo damage or whatever that changes the dynamics.
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  9. #9
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    Dec 1969
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    759

    Default

    All fit now at 1.313 to 1.315. I had one case that was still too tight so I ran it through the FL sizing die and it work now too.
    Re Factory Crimped and noticed that it makes the COL grow up to .001".

  10. #10
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    Dec 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Schuttig View Post
    Were they sized to a minimum of bore diameter? With good lube, properly sized cast bullets shouldn't lead. I've pushed both the CZ and m57 tok to the max without problem, but then again each gun is different and yours may have some light corrosive ammo damage or whatever that changes the dynamics.
    The broomhandle is the worst. The bullets are sized a couple thousandths over, but the barrel has a myriad of pinhole pits that appear to act as host sites for the lead to attach to.

    The others just get a smear in the throats, and it really isn't all that hard to clean them. The Broom, on the other hand, gets to be a REAL party!

  11. #11
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    Dec 1969
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    Who is this commie Col. Too Long Tok?

  12. #12
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    Dec 1969
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    Utter failure. The Hornady 90 .309 bullet will not feed properly. Bluedot wont even cycle the action. Only way to shoot these loads is to load them one at a time.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    619

    Default

    How did you set up your resizing die? Say for instance with Lee it's shellholder contact plus 1/4 turn. I wondered if your problem is in that area.

  14. #14
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    Dec 1969
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    The neck is too thick with a .309 bullet. They are a bit tight in the M57 and wont even chamber in my Russian TT33.
    The Hornady 90 HP didn't feed well either.

    The neck is .327 on Wolf Gold and and my loads are .331 +- .001. The wolf is using a .306" bullet vs the Hornady .309". That little bit is enough to stick in my chambers. I think my chamber is not perfect in the M57 as some of the rounds that didn't chamber all the way would fit if I turn them and re chamber them.
    They all fired when I hand loaded them one at a time.

    I have 7 loaded rounds left, I will run them through the sizer die and see if that helps.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by landtoy80 View Post
    Did the Sharpy marker test, thats how I found where it was making contact. Yes its hitting the rifling.
    Seat deeper and recrimp.

    If you are not near the maximum powder charge for that OAL, don't bother to reduce.
    If you ARE near the top, well, you'll need to drop powder a couple tenths as well as shorten them.
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Default

    I did seat them deeper to avoid hitting the rifling. Guess if I want to shoot .309 bullets I will need to turn the neck to reduce the neck diameter.

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