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  1. #1
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    Default GUNSMITHING: Converting a Carcano to another caliber

    Dino in Reno
    Posted - 12/23/2003 : 9:46:02 PM
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    Yes, I know (or have at least read) all about the receiver mods, but was the bolt face and extractor buzzed bigger?
    If so I need one for a "rebuilding" project useing a badly chopped & sporterized 91 rifle as the starting point. It had been a 1918 ROMA rifle before Bubba got it :-( Barrel chopped, stock chopped, black paint and the first broken trigger I have seen on a Carcano (the bolt release stud). But I did get an early bolt with it...
    Why would a 1918 rifle have a " 25 " stamped on the bottom of the receiver tang?



    Carcano
    Posted - 12/26/2003 : 09:09:25 AM
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    1. Yes, the bolt face has been opened up slightly, though I have not measured it yet. David Franchi, have you compared the dimensions ?

    2. Also, it appears that the locking lugs may have been slightly altered on some gun - the owners of 8mm Moschetti TS 38 "S" might wish to compare their bolts closely to normal 6,5mm or 7,35mm bolts, with regards to the locking lugs.

    3. I fail to understand the context of your question: what would a Roman-made Fucile M 91 have to do with a Moschetto TS 38 "S" ?

    4. I have no idea about the 25 on the bottom of the receiver tang. This part mostly only bears small identification marks of factory workers and foremen. I can't say whether it indicates a refurbishment here. In any case, I would be glad to receive the other (full) data of the sporterized M 91 via email.



    Dino in Reno
    Posted - 12/26/2003 : 9:17:13 PM
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    3. I fail to understand the context of your question: what would a Roman-made Fucile M 91 have to do with a Moschetto TS 38 "S" ?
    Please don't yell too hard, but...

    I don't want to trash a good, or even a bad but complete, Carcano. I have the parts (sights, stock, etc bought from boxes of parts at gun shows) to build a Cav carbine other than an action, barrel and bolt. I have a .30 barrel blank and was thinking of .300 Savage. A test of feeding from a modified clip was five for five, much nicer than my 7.62X39 gun. I seems that an 8mm bolt would save time and money, as well as not buggering up a good "proper" bolt. I really don't want to modify the early bolt that was on the "pre-Bubbaized" 91 ROMA. The barrel work will only run $110.00 or so, so it is a cheap winter project.

    I have taken the oath never to snip on a complete Carcano, but I have all these parts...



    Carcano
    Posted - 12/27/2003 : 04:06:46 AM
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    No occasion to yell, and the .300 Savage is certainly a decent cartridge (though not far enough above the 7,35x51 that it might really warrant a conversion) - but I just wonder: why not convert to .35 Remington instead ? Even easier, and a very decent brush & woodlands round.



    Buckshot
    Posted - 12/27/2003 : 08:09:56 AM
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    ......The 300 Savage should certainly fit the action with it's similar length to the 6.5 and 7.35 Carcano's. Yet remember that some of the Savage data can include data pushing 50K pressures. Since the military 8x57 was loaded to or close to this it may or may not be an issue. Going from looks and simple measurements and not metalurgy I would think the Carcano could handle that easily. Yet what I THINK has no real bearing on actual safety from a standpoint of it's continual use at those levels.

    The main problem with the 300 Savage is the same problem as the 8x57 had. That's body diameter and fitting them into the magazine. Dealing with it on a 'one off' individual basis may be nothing more than slimming down the magazine internally with plastic, and fabricating a narrow follower. This has been done by individuals altering SMLE magazines to handle the 45-70 or 444 Marlin in stacked straight, and not staggered column configuration.

    Then there are no feed lips intregal with the Carcano action. If I had a chopped Carcano and was considering a conversion to 300 Savage or something similar, I would consider using the magazine sides and feed lips of some cheap magazine as a doner to experiment with. Say the Belgian Mod 'D' BAR mags for one. I think we can both agree that the entire excercise would be for our own entertainment, and the value of our time and effort would far outweight any value these alterations would represent to anyone besides us?

    Carcano mentioned the 35 Rem and it's smaller body and rim would better lend it to the Carcano's en-bloc clip. Book data for the 35 Rem doesn't seem to present a problem with the Carcano action. A 200gr slug .350" in diameter at 2200 fps is certainly nothing to disregard at iron sight ranges.

    Before Gunboards.com had it's facelift, there was a couple of photos posted of an extremely well done sporter Carcano on Win's workbench BB. It was surely NOT a simple garage sporterization by any means, and anyone who liked European sporters would have been drooling over it. Ditto anyone appreciateing a well done rifle, to put a point to it. It has double triggers, a well polished and brightly blued action and tapered barrel. The stock was Birdseye Maple and handsomely shaped. The barrel wore flip up sight blades on an express type ramp and a ramp on a band with blade sight up front. All in all a hunting piece with a value way beyond what any military configured Carcano is currently worth.



    Dino in Reno
    Posted - 12/27/2003 : 1:46:16 PM
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    There are several things that I like about the .300 Savage. In the U.S.A. the easiest bullet size to find is .30 cal (.308). It has a long history of use and load development for it. It is easy to resize .308/7.62 NATO brass to it.

    I can load it CHEAP and shoot it lots :-) 200 rounds is an afternoon of shooting, if I bring other guns along to shoot as well.

    There is only one that would be a better short all-around cartridge for my use, the .308/7.62x51 NATO. I have been thinking of that as well, mostly for the availability of blanks and cheap "blasting" ammo, but am not sure that the gunsmith doing the barrel work believes the action is "safe" for that cartridge.
    I don't think there is a problem, but I don't have the shop.

    The clip issue is more in the mind rather than the steel. I took a steel Carcano clip, used a small dremel wheel and removed and re-tapered the ends of the ridges that engage the extractor slot of the cartridge head. About 1/16 of an inch at each end. That took, oh, three minutes. After that I loaded up a mix of .300 savage and .308 rounds and put the loaded clip into a Finn marked short rifle and worked the bolt. For safety I used a bolt body with the striker assembly removed. Using five rather than six rounds there never was a failure to feed the cartridges from the clip and into (as far as they would go) into the chamber. Ejection was problematic due to the extractor and bolt face being too small. The feed was better than in my 7.62x39 carbine. The only problem is the fact that five cartridges do not fill the whole clip, there is some unused slack space. That is only a problem out of the rifle, so is not a show stopper.

    Thanks for not making fun of this project, my other project is a Remington-Lee factory sporter with a badly pitted and sight slotted barrel in .30 Army (30/40 Krag) to be rebarreled to .405 Winchester. That should be a fun gun as well. Anyone have any parts?



    Carcano
    Posted - 12/27/2003 : 1:50:27 PM
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    Dear Dino: the project certainly is a good one. Maybe not extremely "practical", nor cheap - but definitely fun, and definitely educational for everybody involved.

    While I am a bit sceptical (and would still feel that the .35 Rem be the better choice ), I certainly support the endeavour; let me know how it progresses.

    As to metallurgy: 1918 in Italy was a year of extremely forced wartime production, mostly done by previously unskilled female workers in shifts all around the clock, day and night. This is especially true for the newly built plant in Rome. I believe the Italians used electro induction hardening at this time already; faster and safer than case hardening, if the proper hardening times were adhered to. It might be recommendable to do a quick hardness test on the locking lug recesses once the receiver had been unbarrelled.
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    Edited by - Carcano on 12/27/2003 1:51:41 PM

  2. #2
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    Default

    Nordicthug
    Gunboards Super Premium Member
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    Posted - 11/24/2003 : 4:09:23 PM
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    In my opinion the reasons Carcanos aren't used for sporting rifle conversions have a lot more to do with the inconvenient safety, difficulty mounting a scope over the bore, difficulty altering the bolt and magazine, the necessity of proprietary en-bloc clips,and the awkward placement of the bolt handle, than any safety concerns.

    In the late 19th century and early years of the 20th the Mannlicher-Carcano was as good a MILITARY design as most but as a sporting rifle, I don't think so.

    I think that most of the contemporary military bolt action designs make poor sporters for some or all of the above reasons. These include the SMLE, Gras, Berthier, Mannlicher Schoenauer, Moisin Nagant, and the straight pull designs. That leaves the Mauser system.

    Look at almost all of the successful sporting bolt rifles after WWI. They are variants of the M98 Mauser.

    Nordicthug



    Atlpete
    Gunboards Premium Member
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    165 Posts
    Posted - 11/24/2003 : 6:42:56 PM
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    I understood gain twist was adopted to pro-long barrel life, reduce wear around and just forward of the chamber and is a characteristic of ALL Carcanos up to the 1938 conversion to 7.35/introduction of the short rifle. I have heard mixed comments regarding whether gain twist's more accurate; my experience is the accuracy is more a function of barrel length and wear, ie. my M41 is second most accurate carcano behind an excellant M91 Tubata, but I'm sure some have gotten better results with their Moschettos and FC's than me (mine have serious "mileage").

    I agree with Monsieur Thug that Carcanos do not have inherent design weaknesses as it relates to safety and reliabilty and with most of his list of idiosyncrasies relative to why they don't make handy sporters, though I'd say the "awkward" bolt location is more subjective, I prefer it to the mausers, finding it easier (faster) to cycle and reaquire the trigger.

    Pete
    Last edited by Carcano; 09-22-2007 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Rebarrelling to 7,62x39 and .35 Rem

    Dino in Reno
    Posted - 06/09/2005 : 12:18:59 AM
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    I had a cav carbine rebarreled to 7.62X39, with the same barrel shape. This was for WWII reenacting (blanks in 6.5 are harder to find than 7.62X39). Shoots great with ball or blank, feeds best with four rounds in the clip due to the sharper slope of the case walls.
    I have another with a shot-out barrel I may do in .300 Savage or in .308. The Czech 7.62X45 would be a great caliber to do one up in, other than it is harder to find than 6.5 Carcano



    SteveMcP
    Posted - 06/09/2005 : 9:50:04 PM
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    A friend of my Dad's had one barreled for .35 Remington with a pivoting wing receiver sight in a drop-in Herter's stock. This was his deer rifle, back around 1969 or so, and it worked well, as I recall.



    Obsidian
    Posted - 06/10/2005 : 11:27:05 PM
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    So who's doing the barrel work? I have one I'd like to put a new barrel on. This is a great idea.



    GjMan
    Posted - 06/11/2005 : 1:57:45 PM
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    Who to do the work? Any 'smith with a well-equipped shop should be able to handle the job for a reasonable price, as Carcano threading and breeching would be fairly easy to duplicate. The question is will he? Lotta people still think Carcs are junk and won't mess with them.

    But you would probably need to start with an unthreaded aftermarket barrel; Carc thread diameter is nearly as large as large ring Mauser, so it would be difficult to re-thread a barrel from a different rifle.



    48mauser
    Posted - 06/13/2005 : 9:27:24 PM
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    Dino in Reno, I would like to here the details of rebarreling the Carcano to 7.62x39. Could you elaborate a little more? Thanks Paul P.



    Antonio
    Posted - 06/14/2005 : 12:20:30 AM
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    I also have a Carcano rebarreled to 7.62X39. Put Remington rifle sights on it and mounted it an old Fajen sporter stock. Looks great. Shoots great and cheap. Likes the brass cased Yugo and Zimbabwe(Cheetah) ammo best. Solved the feeding problem by soldering a small piece in the botton of the reciever in front of the feed ramp. Feeds six rounds slick as s$%@.



    48mauser
    Posted - 06/14/2005 : 9:13:27 PM
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    Well guys who did your rebarrel jobs and where did you get your barrels? Were they take-offs from something or were they custom barrels? Thanks for any information Paul P.



    Dino in Reno
    Posted - 06/16/2005 : 11:43:03 PM
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    I had it done years ago, the gunsmith was "Multi-Standard M-S" in Wis. As I recall he used a take-off P-14 barrel for the blank. I paid $109.45 total, not counting shipping. This was back about 1990. It looks just like a '91 Cav, but is cheaper to shoot.

  4. #4
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    Default Carcano in 7.62x39

    GJD
    Posted - 01/29/2006 : 11:34:32 AM
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    I've found a Carcano barrel that is in caliber 7.62x39. It comes with a proper chamber. Apparently it screws right on. The seller says that the 7.62 cartridge will fit the en-bloc clip and the bolt face. Has anyone ever heard of this? Would this work, in theory, with proper headspacing? And pressure issues? Thanks.

    P.S. - I would only do this on an already sporterized Carcano.



    montello
    Posted - 01/29/2006 : 3:48:10 PM
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    Carcanos have been sucessfully converted to 7.62X39 before by changing the barrel and adding a spacer in the magazine. The head and rim of the 7.62 are basicly the same as the carcano cartridge so the bolt and extractor do not have to be altered, and six will fit into the clip. It will shoot a bullet almost the same as the 7.35 in weight and is possible.



    Ronin48
    Posted - 01/30/2006 : 07:32:22 AM
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    I have a 7.62x39 conversion by the late Miles Pickens of Ft. Payne, AL. I have $150 in it, would like to get that out if any of you are interested. [email protected]



    jgerlica
    Posted - 01/31/2006 : 6:26:32 PM
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    If you don't pick up that barrel, could you send me the info: [email protected] I'm very interested in it.



    Dino in Reno
    Posted - 02/01/2006 : 11:25:04 PM
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    I have a cav carbine I had rebarreled to 7.62X39. I did it mostly for the blanks (WWII re-enacting) but it is fun to shoot with ball. It has , well, issues feeding with more than five rounds in the clip, there is more taper to the 7.62X39 round.



    jgerlica
    Posted - 02/02/2006 : 1:22:38 PM
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    Can someone point me to a smith capable of doing so? My normal smith is a card carrying "Carcanos are shoulder fired hand grenades" type.



    Leonid
    Posted - 02/03/2006 : 11:04:01 PM
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    I have a Finn-marked carbine in that chambering I bought many years ago in excellent condition. I don't know exactly what was done or by whom but it has the original barrel. I haven't shot it alot but never had any problems and the recoil was not excessive.



    FogHorn
    Posted - 02/05/2006 : 2:32:42 PM
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    Hey, I have one redone by my gunsmith, great little shooter, fun and very little kick. I read a thread a while back somewhere that the Finns took a batch of these and redid them for their forestry service post WWII. Thats where I got the idea. Seems it wasnt an original thought. Was actually cheaper for me than tooling up to reload 6.5, my gunsmith and I did the project together, hence keeping my cost down. Took a 40 dollar gun and put about 75 in it and now I can shoot it all day long for next to nothing. Regards, Eric
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    Eric S. Dixon



    Antonio
    Posted - 02/05/2006 : 6:12:38 PM
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    Here are a a few pictures of my 7.62X39 converson. The stock is a Fajen and the sights are Remington. The picture of the mag well shows the spacer welded to the botton of the reciever to facilitate reliable loading. The gun likes Brass cased ammo much better than the steel case stuff. I sometimes get a stiff bolt lift with the steel case ammo. The gun however shoots great and is very accurate.

    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/An...7_MVC-395F.JPG
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    Downloahttp://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Antonio/200625181225_MVC-396F.JPGd Attachment:
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  5. #5
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    jgerlica
    Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:18:28 AM
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    I received the 7.62x39 carbine yesterday, and I am damn pleased with it. Amazingly it feeds flawlessly even with Wolf steel case ElCheap ammo. If you have any information on the smith that did the conversion, or the conversion itself it would be appreciated. Once again, thank you sir.



    Ronin48
    Posted - 03/10/2006 : 09:10:11 AM
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    Work done by the late Miles Pickens of Fort Payne AL. Miles was an 'amateur' (good enough to earn a living if he had chosen) gunsmith. Tragically, he died in his 40s.

    Vince DiNardi was a good friend and fellow 'gun tinkerer' Vince does not have email, but his phone # is256/845-1819, he's home all day and loves to talk guns.

    Glad the Carc. conversion found a good home.



    jgerlica
    Posted - 04/16/2006 : 11:10:58 AM
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    I haven't been around in awhile, and wanted to say thank you again. After taking her to the range with some UMC soft points, I'm truly amazed with the accuracy. Well anyway, I have yet to order an original TS stock for her, but all things in due time. Here of course is a quick snapshot.

    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/jg...51_patrol1.jpg
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  6. #6
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    Default Eloldehombre1, Pics of the 7.62x39 Carcano

    JGerlica did follow up with a picture. To my surprise, it shows a Moschetto TS 38 "S" converted to 7,62x39:

    * * *

    jgerlica
    Posted - 06/24/2006 : 11:20:10 AM
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    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/jg...ay06%20009.jpg
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    Ronin48
    Posted - 07/19/2006 : 12:55:07 PM
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    LOOKS GOOD, glad it found a good home. Now you need my T-I shortened to carbine length and converted to 7.62X39 - work by the heathen Chinese PRC.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2006624111911_may06%20009.jpg  

  7. #7
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    Default

    Ronin48
    Posted - 08/05/2006 : 7:59:14 PM
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    I sold a Carc. converted to 7.62. Buyer seemed happy. You might contact Vince DiNardi, Ft. Payne, AL 256/845-1819 (Tell him Doss said to call.) He and the late Miles Pickens converted the rifle so might be able to help you.

    I have a T-I modified to carbine length and converted to 7.62x39, but it uses the Mauser feed system. At this point in time I'm like the old Indian in "The Outlaw Jose Wales," "I knew that stuff at one time, but I forgot!"

  8. #8
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    Antonio
    Posted - 08/07/2006 : 5:55:07 PM
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    Here is a picture of the botton of the reciever with a close up of the spacer. Make it a tight fit and use alot of JB Weld and you should be OK.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/An...6_MVC-549F.JPG
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    Antonio
    Posted - 08/07/2006 : 6:04:40 PM
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    Here is another photo looking down from the top with a loaded clip in place. I filed out a small lip in the spacer for better feeding.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/An...2_MVC-553F.JPG
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    roddy1993
    Posted - 08/08/2006 : 1:18:19 PM
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    Thanks for the very, very helpful Pics Antonio. I did make a spacer yesterday and it worked just a few times. I had to keep bending it back up because the 7.62x39 rounds kept bending the spacer/ cartridge guide down! I made my spacer out of sheet steel and attached it to the stock under the receiver right behind the steel grommit/forward stock reinforcer. This design isn't going to work for me much longer. I need to make one just like the one pictured. ( somehow )
    I guess I'll be using some JB Weld. I do still need to find a 7.62x39mm BBl for my old 7.35 rifle laying around and collecting dust!



    roddy1993
    Posted - 08/09/2006 : 6:31:23 PM
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    The spacer I made for the Carc. in 7.62x39mm worked. (sort of). Now I have one more problem to figure out. I cannot get the bolt to strip off the last round from the stripper clip. The follower pushes up on the front of the cartridge because the 7.62x39mm is shorter than 6.5 or 7.35. The rear of the cart. gets passed over by the bolt because more of the front portion of the cartridge is being pushed up a little. I know what could correct this problem, but I don't have the know how to make my own parts or modify existing parts. What needs to be done is shorten the Carcano's follower, follower spring and position it back closer to the inside of the mag/trigger guard. That way the follower will be pushing up near the rear of the cartridge keeping it level. I can't make the follower longer either! Hell, I think maybe I should give up and turn it back into a boring single shot then take this rifle back to its owner! By the way, has anyone else had this problem with their 7.62x39mm Carcano?????



    roddy1993
    Posted - 08/11/2006 : 8:41:43 PM
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    Antonio,
    I do have a spare Carcano complete mag housing and I will try it out. If it still doesn't work, I just might buy a complete Steyr model 1895 follower and spring assembly and figure out a way to put it in the Carcano's mag well/trigger guard. The Steyr m-95 has an excellent full length follower assembly much like the Mosin Nagant rifle and many other C&R long guns. I will try the spare Carc. mag well/trigger guard tonight. Thanks..........( I'm Still searching for a 7.62x39mm BBL that could be used on a Carcano! ) I'll just have to keep searching the internet for one, unless of coarse someone could direct me to one.



    roddy1993
    Posted - 08/12/2006 : 2:26:42 PM
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    I tried out three other Carcano mag assemblys and they did the same thing. That damn Carc. follower isn't long enough and when it gets to the last 7.62x39mm cartridge it pushes up on the front of the bullet instead of the rear. I'll figure something out. I am thinking about buying an old single-stack magazine from a savage in 30-30. I could probably modify it to work..
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  9. #9
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    Default Converting a Carcano to 7,92x33mm kurz?

    Sterlnikov
    Posted - 11/02/2006 : 12:28:26 AM
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    I am interested in converting a sporterized (bubbafied) 8x57mm Carcano carbine to 8x33mm Kurz.
    My plan is to shorten the chamber area of the original 8x57 mm to 8x33mm dimensions. Is this possible considering the limited chamber wall area of the original barrel?

    The other planned modification is to omit the original Carcano trigger guard and magazine assembly completely and substitute a newly constructed sheet metal unit that would accomodate an STG-44 magazine. Due to the thickness of the STG-44 magazine the mag well area of the Carcano stock would need to be opened up a bit to add the sheet metal mag well, mag catch and triggerguard. I am guessing the bottom of the receiver would need to be milled out to accept the wide feed lips of the STG mag. The bolt face area looks as if no modifications are necessary to feed the kurz round. I am not sure if any modifications to the bolt are necessary due to the change from single cartridges to a wide double stack magazine.

    The goal here is to re-use a sporter or junker Carcano that has lost its historical significance and to produce a new variation on the Volksgewehr concept. I am new to Carcanos and would appreciate any technical advice and suggestions.

    Thanks!



    DocAV
    Posted - 11/02/2006 : 02:10:10 AM
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    Ways of doing the barrel from 7,9x57 to 7,9x33: One can use the "neck insert" (as used in US M1 rifles, to reduce the chamber from 30/06 to 7,62 Nato; I have done one similar, on a Spanish M95 (BUBBA) carbine to convert from 7,62x51 to 7,62x38 (ie, ".308x1,5"): I simply turned up a Brass ring to force fit into the shoulder area of the 7,62x51 Chamber, and then once fixed in place, clean-up reamed using a .308x1,5 Chambering reamer. With medium loads, the ring adaptor doesn't move.
    Second way to convert the barrel is to take TWO Carcano barrels, or a barrel stiub and the original 7,9mm Carcano barrel. One first shortens the Chamber end of the existing Carcano 7,9 barrel, and then turns down the outside to a cylindrical shape, removing all the remaining threads etc. Then one takes the Stub, complete with shoulder and round chamber swell, and counterbores it to take the turned "short chamber" barrel...and sleeves the stub over the barrel with the short chamber. It can be done Hot shrink fit ( you heat the stub ring up to expand it, you chill the barrel to reduce it, fit them together, and allow to cool to room temperature; the outer ring stub will then be a shrink fit over the barrel...I always fit an off-centre crosspin to lock the two together.
    The chamber may still need a bit of auto-valve grinding paste abrasive and a 7,9x33 case mounted on an arbour and driven by a power drill to lap the chamber to correct dimensions, as the shoulder of the 7,9x33 is slightly bigger than that of the 7,9x57.

    Now the fun part: The amount of metal required to be removed to fit a MP44 magazine would seriously weaken the receiver body; even if it is a front-locker, remember that the bolt handle acts as a third "safety" lug.
    I am not saying it can't be done, as the Japanese Type I rifle used a Carcano action fitted with a double column (Mauser) style of magazine, so the design is proven...

    Feeding problems: The Carcano action was designed to feed a Long cartridge, with a 2 inch case. Admittedly, feeding from a single column mag has less difficulties than a double, but the Type I, although chambered for the shorter 6,5 Arisaka cartridge, from a double stack mag, had no problems, because of similar cartridge and case lengths.

    The 7,9x33, OTOH, is much shorter, and the MP44 mag is designed to deliver the cartridge in full-auto fire, in an shorter space and with different angles of approach to the chamber mouth.
    The Bolt is a different configuration in the Carcano, so the magazine would need to be modified as well...Modifying magazines is a recipe for trouble... and MP 44 mags are Not that plentiful or that cheap....

    I would stick to the single column mag, but modify the Carcano mechanism to take either a removable box mag., similar to some of the early Tikka or Savage magazines,or add an internal cartridge retaining side spring clip in the receiver similar to the Gew88/05 stripper clip conversion, or the "Interrupter" system used in a Mosin Nagant, to keep the cartridges from "double feeding" or spilling out of the action.

    A friend of mine, with his "bubba'ed" Carcano, had a smith make a thin sheetmetal box mag, opened up the triggerguard-mag well, removed the base plate and internal cartridge elevator etc, and used the Carcano clip latch as the magazine latch.The Tin box mag had a 6 round capacity, but can only be loaded out of the gun...
    In the case of the 7,9x33 cartridge, one would also have to fit a mag-well space filler, as the shorter cartridge will require a shorter magazine for proper feeding.(or completely rebuild the triggerguard-magazine box assembly from scratch)

    BTW, during WW II, EXPERIMENTAL (note the emphasis) Kar98k were made chambered for the 7,9 x33 cartridge; but none were series produced.
    They were probablyn used for Ammunition testing at one of the cartridge factories. Lately, one (small) German Gunmaker has offered "Copies"built on original Kar98k mechanisms and actions, with new barrels chambered specifically for the 7,9x33 cartridge.
    The feed is a modified, fixed 5 round internal Mauser mag. set up.

    I would say, if the subject Bubba Carcano is so far gone that it can't be restored(new wood, metal parts, etc) or the externals are so rusted etc, the cheapest thing is to part it out and be shot of it...
    Or better still, use it for the basis of making a "Cutaway" demonstration piece.
    There are much easier rifles to conver to 7,9x33...with much less cost...even if you do have a cheap source of ammo nowadays...
    Even a Lee-Enfield would be easier to convert, and it could use an MP44 magazine without having to machine away too much metalwork from the receiver, and very little modification to the trigger guards.

    I would close by saying, If you really want to convert a "7,9" Carcano to 7,9x33, the (a) make a chamber adapter (b) Modify a Carcano clip to take 5 of 7,9x33 cartridges, and make a mag. filler block (split) to guide the rounds into the chamber. (c) Hope for the best.
    Don't spend too much money on it....you should be able to do all the work yourself, if you have a lathe and plenty of good files.

    Regards, Doc AV
    AV Ballistics:

    My conversions of "Bubba" Carcanos include a 7,62x39 ( using a shortened and re-threaded SMLE barrel--the forward end of a .303 chamber is identical to a 7,62x39 cartridge), a 7x53 Carcano (AKA .276 Pedersen-- using a shortened 7x57 barrel from a Latin 95 Mauser) a 7,62x45 Czech, again using a shortened and re-threaded
    SMLE barrel, and several which are still on the drawing boards, using Pistol cartridges ( 10mm Auto magnum, etc).
    They all still use the Carcano-Mannlicher clip system, with mag fillers and ramps to ensure good feeding of shorter cartridges.
    or I can use Longer and heavier Bullets (esp. in the 7,62x39 and x45).

    Excellent medium power Pig shooters.



    Sterlnikov
    Posted - 11/03/2006 : 01:01:17 AM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks DocAV for the detailed response. I will try your chamber sleeve suggestion and omit the mp-44 mag adapter. I forgot about the different feeding geometry of the double stack mag.

    Also do you have the contact information for the German gunmaker that is building the 98k's in 7.92x33?

    Thanks again!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Default

    The conversion -sounds interesting -Thank You, Jay

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Default Conversion to 7,62x39

    DocAV
    Posted - 03/05/2007 : 11:26:03 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rather simple, you need a Lathe (South Bend or Atlas or similar), a good quality SMLE Mark III Barrel (heavy or light, does not matter.)

    And, of course, a clapped out Carcano Barrelled action or complete rifle.
    First, turn out the original Carcano barrel.
    Then, take the .303 Barrel, set up in Lathe, and Face off from the Breech end, until a 7,62x39 Live round (or purpose made dummy) will headspace properly... The forward end of a .303 chamber fits a 7,62x39 Perfectly, for both shoulder and Body taper. (you just have to shorten the chamber OAL). Use the Carcano Barrel as a guide to make the proper Breech recesses for the Bolt.
    The Turn off the remaining .303 barrel Threads, and copy the profile of the Carcano Barrel threaded shank.
    Screw up the barrel and try the headspace...continue adjusting by skimming forward the barrel outer shoulder until correct headspace is achieved. DO NOT Modify the receiver Body at all. Finish the bolt recesses in the breech face of the barrel.

    Other items to modify: make a split bridge spacer (aluminium) to fit in the forward part of the magazine well, to allow the elevator lever to pass though securely, to support the much shorter cartridge in its passage from Clip to chamber.

    Sights: Either re-fit the original Carcano Fixed or Adjustable sights
    ( I used a Bubbafied(Interarms) M41 rifle, still with its original adjustable rear sight) to the .303 cum 7,62x39 barrel, and a new front sight.

    If you wish to maintain the "Military Look" then use the original stock and furniture and front sights (Barrel turning may be required)
    otherwise, use the "bubbafied"Stock to make a nice Sporter.

    One of our Gun clubs has done this to have cheap "practice rifles" for Visitors to the range (ie, Newbies to the sport)

    As far as accuracy with Milsurp 7,62x39, our Bigbore( Long range) shooters use Recycled 7,62 (.310) projectiles in both .303 and 7,62Nato for practice in older rifles, with reasonable accuracy.

    With this conversion method, there is no need for a chamber reamer; at most, a Small Tungsten Carbide triangular Bearing Scraper may be used to finally clean up the edges of the Chamber Mouth. (I lap the chamber using a spigoted & fired 7,62x39 case coated in oil and valve grinding paste at high speed. Excellent results.)

    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.
    Last edited by Carcano; 10-24-2007 at 05:04 PM.

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