Small survey on Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser
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Thread: Small survey on Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser

  1. #1
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    Default Small survey on Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser

    Hi,

    my recent purchase of a Model 1935 Brazilian Mauser made me curious how the actual prices are for this rifle and how many have been produced. Even the standard Mauser book of Ball gives no production figures - in the WEB one finds figures ranging from about 5,000 to 15,000.

    So I used some spare time to thoroughly searching the WEB for 1935 Brazilian Mausers and collected all available data to serial numbers, prices they have been sold for in what year, condition, matching or not, and "extras" like bayonet, original sling, muzzle protector and factory test target.

    This not only covered the long rifle but the short version also. Here come the results:

    Click image for larger version.

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    The highest serial no. I did find was 7900, so maybe the whole production run of Brazilian Model 1935 Mausers did not exceed 8,000 examples. And within this production range at least 1,000 were short rifles (serials all in the 1000 range). Maybe even some short rifles more, because the serial range below No. 1000 is only represented by No. 406, a long rifle. Evidence of serial numbers between 500 and 1000 is completely lacking - so it is unclear whether those had been long or short rifles or maybe this whole serial block had not been used at all - who knows?

    Nevertheless in my eyes these data give some evidence at least that there have been produced a minimum of 1,000 of the short rifles and maybe no more than 7,000 of the long ones.
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-03-2014 at 02:23 AM. Reason: misspelling corrected
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  2. #2
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    You can add:

    4924

    That's the serial number of my 1935.
    It's in mint/like new condition
    with serial number matching bayonet
    Original sling,
    but
    no muzzle cap,
    no target

    Paid CAD $450.00 in 2011/2012

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    Thank you for the information. I'll add to my list all future informations I'll find or receive and post an updated version here from time to time.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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  5. #4
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    Hi 7x57,
    Jon Speed, the author of "The Mauser Archive" has recently acquired a substanial archive of original financial data on Mauser sales before WW II. He read your post and has been going through his records to locate the payment receipts for the Brazilian order(s). Jon says that Mauser's "payment received" documents are the best source for counting the actual number of rifles exported. Another good souirce is the actual contract itself. Although Jon has a number of original contracts, like for Chile's M1935 carbine purchase, he has not yet found any Brazilian contracts. He sent me several documents to post here. The ones that mention the 1,000 Brazilian M1935 carbines and the one that mentions 3,000 rifles are the most reliable financial documents confirming the shipment of these items. Jon believes that another 3-4,000 rifles might have been sold and is working to locate the relevant financial docs and contracts for these. Jon noted that there are a number of entries in his documents from Brazilian agents requesting quotes for rfiles. It is likely that many of these did not result in actual purchases.

    I would also add that if you have a copy of "The Mauser Archive", you will see that sales documents for 7,000 rifles and 1,000 carbines being sold to Brazil. About half were sold in the 1935-36 time frame and half in 1938. Now that Jon has obtained a new archive of financial documents, he is attempting to confirm the old sales records with financial receipts. This is proving very challenging in the Brazilian case.

    In addition to the documents posted here, Jon also just sent me this email message:

    "John,
    Re tracking the financial movements, I see we have the last payments recorded from Brazil in 1938 for the sum of 49,880 marks!. This could indicate the further purchase of at least 800 rifles or carbines in the 1937/38 period?? Only a thought. It is known from serial numbers that 1000 carbines were made a and sold and at least 3000 rifles from the note we have + - 1000-2000 more rifles from 2 other Brazil reps. ?? It's to bad a don't have any contract docs for Brazil like I do for other countires like Chile for their 10,000 carbines but thats how it goes.
    Regards,
    Jon"


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails zpfile000a.jpg zpfile001a.jpg zpfile002a.jpg
    Last edited by John Wall; 04-02-2014 at 10:06 AM. Reason: sp

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    Hi John,

    great additional info - thanks to Mr. Speed also. Today I sent a contact e-mail to the Mauser company (more precise, to the successor of the original Mauser company, which now is selling the Mauser hunting rifles) and asked for some information on this topic. Let's see what answer will come...

    If you or Mr. Speed need assistance for translation of German documents, please let me know. Also if there are problems with reading the old hand-written German documents - we had in those days some writing styles quite different from the normal latin characters. But I belong to a generation which still did learn this sort of letters in school (okay, the ability to write them has mostly gone with the decades, but reading is still not a problem).

    The factory test targets show - besides other data - the serial number of the rifle and the date of the test shooting. These testing dates are until now the only information I've got concerning the production time frame:

    Rifle No. 2690, tested on Sept. 05, 1935
    Rifle No. 4082, tested on March 09, 1937
    Rifle No. 4716, tested on April 04, 1937 (uncertain, date difficult to read on the available picture of the target)
    Rifle No. 6226, tested on April 09, 1937
    Rifles Nos. 7004 & 7005, tested on April 27, 1937
    Rifle No. 7145, tested on April 28, 1937
    Rifle No. 7198, tested on May 13, 1937
    Rifle No. 7702, tested on May 15, 1937

    The test targets also sport a so-called "laufende Nummer" or consecutive number which may have been assigned on a daily basis. I found numbers ranging from "5" to "84" - so there might well have been quite a number of guns tested every day.

    And finally I have translated the three German document pages shown in post #4 into English:

    Click image for larger version.

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    Thomas
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-02-2014 at 12:46 PM. Reason: posting amended
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    Hi 7x57,
    Many thanks for your information and translations. These are very helpful! I am attaching three other documents which Jon sent me recently. Perhaps you could tranalate theswe if you have a few minutes to spare? The first and duplicate seond pages are a short Mauser Co. document confirming the 1000 carbine/3000 Mdl rifle order, the fourth (and last page) is an Oberndorf/ DWM Berlin letter which explains the use of the Oberndorf name and double letter serial numbering on the last Brazil M1908 order circa 1914; and the third is the first page from the Mauser-Chilean contract for the Model 1935 Carabineros order for 10,000 carbines.

    Sorry for the mix-up of the page postings.
    Best Regards,
    John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1080501.jpg P1080501a.jpg P1080510a.jpg P1080442.jpg

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    Hi John,

    here come the English translations of the three German documents, they exactly describe what you have already stated:

    Click image for larger version.

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    Hope they are useful. Sorry for double posting of the pictures - but the first time I loaded them up I did not recognize that they were inverted. Did not manage to delete the faulty ones from the thumbnails...

    In the short notice of May 16, 1935 I marked the letters "Wi/W." with an asteriks, but forgot the explanation. These simply are the short name signs of the person in charge of the notice/letter (Wi.) and the person who had to type it (W.) - common German office practice.

    In the letter of April 1, 1913 the letters "gez." in front of the first signature simply mean "signed" - I omitted this in the translation.

    And here some shots of actual test targets to illustrate what I described in my earlier posting:

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ID:	765625Click image for larger version.

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    In the upper left corner there are the number of the rifle, the consecutive number mentioned above and the date, in the upper right corner the shooting distance (50 m) and short signatures of the shooter and the supervisor.

    And lastly my thoughts to the abbreviation "R.K.M." in the entry dated March 24, 1936 in the first scan series of German documents. Maybe this stands for "Reichskriegsministerium" ("War Ministry of the Reich"), the official designation of the German War Ministry after May 21, 1935. If true, this would be a hint that those weapons deals were not only a two-party affair between Brazil and Mauser, but the German War Ministry was involved in one form or another, too.

    Thomas
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-07-2014 at 12:56 PM. Reason: amendments
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    Awesome thread. I am left with a couple of questions. I wonder if any one knows if there any carbines in the 1938 Brazilian shipment? Was the 1938 shipment carried out or canceled? Was the total carbine count 1000, mine numbers in the 1500s?

    Thanks!

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    According to the results of my serial number research shown in post #1, there were 1,000 carbines with their serials in the 1000-2000 range. So the No. 1500 of your gun perfectly fits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
    According to the results of my serial number research shown in post #1, there were 1,000 carbines with their serials in the 1000-2000 range. So the No. 1500 of your gun perfectly fits.
    Thanks!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleye View Post
    Thanks!!
    You're welcome. Maybe you would like to contribute some information about your M1935 carbine for inclusion in my data sheet?
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    You can add this one, 1935 rifle # 5907. Unissued with matching bayonet, sling muzzle cap and test target in cardboard cylinder. Got it in the mid 80's. Non import marked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samnev2 View Post
    You can add this one, 1935 rifle # 5907. Unissued with matching bayonet, sling muzzle cap and test target in cardboard cylinder. Got it in the mid 80's. Non import marked.
    Thank you for the information - just added to my list. One more of the ones with really all "extras"!
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    1935 carbine, CIA import marked, matching, missing rod, S# 1511, well worn, shiny bore, accurate. Interesting thing, shoots low with 175 grain at traditional speeds, right on with 140 grain at high end speeds.








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    I was going to add mine but I see you have already found it. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...=banner+mauser So only 1000 ordered? Wow, then it was a real lucky find. I need to find the guy with my #95 floor plate and swap him the #78 I have. lol. I wish mine had the cleaning rod. What length is correct?
    Did someone say bore snake?

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    Thanks again to all contributions. Especially those of you who are the lucky owners of original test targets (even if the appropriate gun is lacking) - the three dates in the left upper corner (gun no., "laufende Nr.", i.e. consecutive number and of course the date of the test would be highly appreciated. Until now I have only a few examples and these are the only data to estimate the production time frame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurn blanston View Post
    ... I wish mine had the cleaning rod. What length is correct?

    Probably the 25 cm variant depicted in this picture (http://www.k98k.info/uploader/pc180002.jpg) would be correct. Was in use between 1934 and 1939 on carbine variants of Mauser 98 types. I have a long M1935 rifle, this has a 39 cm long cleaning rod. The tip of the first two cleaning rods in the picture is the same like that of my rifle's. And the cleaning rods of Brazilian Models 1935 were not blued - at least until now I did not see a single picture of a blued cleaning rod on a 1935 Brazil.

    Here (http://www.k98k.info/index.php?p=pro...-98er-modellen) you see illustrated how to measure the correct cleaning rod length. The text is in German, but I think the pictures are self-explaining.

    Simply look after the exact position of the cleaning rod fixing thread in your gun's stock (the red marked parts on the picture) http://www.k98k.info/uploads/media/dsc_0001.jpg. If the 25-cm-rod is correct for your rifle, then this thread is covered by the lower barrel band and can be seen on the underside of the stock after removal of the barrel band - position see middle one of the three stocks depicted.

    If you find the fixing thread in a more backward position (upper one of the three rifles), then you need a 39 cm rod.

    The 32 cm rod (lower one of the three guns) was introduced in 1939, so did not yet exist when your gun was produced. Same applies to the 15 cm wartime variant.
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    Just measured and it would be a 39cm rod.
    Did someone say bore snake?

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    Did someone say bore snake?

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    Thanks.Just added to my list.

    And here comes the factory test target of my rifle - finally managed to take some photos:

    Click image for larger version.

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    Last edited by 7x57; 04-05-2014 at 12:44 PM.
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    Did update my survey results list - added all contributions received from members here and data found elsewhere, plus the available data from the original factory test targets (date of test in the mm-dd-yyyy format plus the "laufende Nummer"/consecutive no. on the target).

    Click image for larger version.

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    Thanks a lot again to all who contributed data of their 1935 Brazilian Mausers. But the race is still going on...

    Especially interesting would be factory test target data of carbines and all data of guns out of the serial block below No. 1000.
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    A little more updated... Just has closed an auction at eGun.de for an obviously unissued example with matching bayonet at a price of € 439...

    Click image for larger version.

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    Last edited by 7x57; 04-07-2014 at 02:33 AM. Reason: misspelling
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    A short comment on the 7 mm cartridge:

    In the Chilean contract shown above the 7 mm cartridge is designated as "Mauser Model P cartridge with S bullet". I tried to figure out the meanings of the letters "P" and "S" in this context, since especially "Model P cartridge" was something unheard to me until recently.

    Okay, "S" was relatively easy - it stands for "Spitzgescho" ("spitzer bullet") - same as with 8x57 IS. Other possible explanations could be "Spanisch" ("Spanish") or "schwer" ("heavy" - for the bullet), but these are relatively unlikely. "P" was a little bit more tricky, but finally I found the following explanation (see here: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic...tiagudo#p79142): it's simply the Spanish designation for "spitzer bullet", they called it "puntiagudo".
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  25. #24
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    "A picture says more than thousand words" - so here come photos of the rifles in my list, where possible. I confined it deliberately to a maximum of three photos per gun, even if I have a lot more. All photos came from the WEB.

    Long rifle No. 406:

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    Long rifle No. 634:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 2571:

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ID:	766870

    Long rifle No. 2690:

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ID:	766871Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766875Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766872

    Long rifle No. 3029:

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ID:	766873Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766874 (rifle deactivated)

    Long rifle No. 3611:

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ID:	766876

    Long rifle No. 4082:

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Views:	35
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ID:	766877

    Long rifle No. 4108:

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ID:	766878Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766879

    Long rifle No. 4325:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 4334:

    No picture available
    Last edited by 7x57; 08-18-2014 at 04:23 AM.
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    Part II:

    Long rifle No. 4359:

    Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766882Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766883

    Long rifle No. 4370:

    Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766884

    Long rifle No. 4462:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 4716:

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ID:	766885

    Long rifle No. 4789:

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ID:	766886

    Long rifle No. 4812:

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ID:	766887Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766888

    Long rifle No. 4822:

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ID:	766889

    Long rifle No. 4832:

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ID:	766890

    Long rifle No. 4865:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 4924:

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ID:	767072

    Long rifle No. 4999:

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ID:	766891
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-17-2014 at 01:24 AM. Reason: New find added
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    Here is # 4924 Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766904

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    Part III:

    Long rifle No. 5287:

    Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766892Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766893Click image for larger version.

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ID:	767447

    Long rifle No. 5308:

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ID:	766894Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766895

    Long rifle No. 5414:

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ID:	766896Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766897

    Long rifle No. 5471:

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Size:	9.9 KB
ID:	766898

    Long rifle No. 5599:

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Views:	27
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ID:	766899 (only bayonet known)


    Long rifle No. 5735:

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ID:	766901

    Long rifle No. 5807:

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ID:	766902Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766903
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-08-2014 at 02:47 PM.
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    Part IV:

    Long rifle No. 5878:

    Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766905

    Long rifle No. 5907:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 62xx:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 6226:

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ID:	766906Click image for larger version.

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ID:	766907Click image for larger version.

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ID:	767579

    Long rifle No. 6285:

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ID:	766908

    Long rifle No. 6341:

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Views:	16
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ID:	766909 (only bayonet known)

    Long rifle No. 6461:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	6461_01.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	11.5 KB
ID:	766910

    Long rifle No. 65xx:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	65xx_01.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	23.2 KB
ID:	766911

    Long rifle No. 6839:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	6839_01.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	46.8 KB
ID:	766912Click image for larger version.

Name:	6839_03.JPG
Views:	16
Size:	61.7 KB
ID:	766913 (from Robert Ball's great book)

    Long rifle No. 6894:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	6894_01.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	766914Click image for larger version.

Name:	6894_10.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	127.0 KB
ID:	766915
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-08-2014 at 02:49 PM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  30. #29
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    Part V:

    Long rifle No. 6936:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	6936_01.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	78.8 KB
ID:	766970Click image for larger version.

Name:	6936_05.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	146.5 KB
ID:	766971

    Long rifle No. 6970:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	6970_01.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	37.9 KB
ID:	766972Click image for larger version.

Name:	6970_05.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	61.5 KB
ID:	766973 (only pictures of the bayonet available)

    Long rifle No. 7004:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7004.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	156.4 KB
ID:	766974

    Long rifle No. 7005:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7005.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	155.0 KB
ID:	766975

    Long rifle No. 7139:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7139_01.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	257.8 KB
ID:	766977Click image for larger version.

Name:	7139_02.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	213.4 KB
ID:	766978

    Long rifle No. 7145:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7145_01.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	9.3 KB
ID:	766979

    Long rifle No. 7150:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 7176:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7176_04.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	15.1 KB
ID:	766980Click image for larger version.

Name:	7176_10.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	46.6 KB
ID:	766981
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-17-2014 at 01:23 AM. Reason: new find added
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Part VI:

    Long rifle No. 7198:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7198_07.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	288.1 KB
ID:	766983Click image for larger version.

Name:	7198_02.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	294.8 KB
ID:	766928Click image for larger version.

Name:	7198_03.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	295.7 KB
ID:	766929Click image for larger version.

Name:	7198_06.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	228.4 KB
ID:	766930

    Long rifle No. 7301:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7301.JPG
Views:	14
Size:	21.6 KB
ID:	766931

    Long rifle No. 7406:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7406_01.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	236.8 KB
ID:	766932Click image for larger version.

Name:	7406_06.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	112.0 KB
ID:	766933

    Long rifle No. 7487:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7487.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	766934

    Long rifle No. 7517:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7517_01.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	118.0 KB
ID:	766935Click image for larger version.

Name:	7517_10.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	119.7 KB
ID:	766936

    Long rifle No. 7702:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7702_01.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	73.8 KB
ID:	766937Click image for larger version.

Name:	7702_02.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	154.2 KB
ID:	766938
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-07-2014 at 06:52 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  32. #31
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    Part VII:

    Long rifle No. 7703:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7703.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	20.2 KB
ID:	766941

    Long rifle No. 7749:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7749_01.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	144.0 KB
ID:	766942

    Long rifle No. 7843:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No 7900:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. xx29:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	xx29_02.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	23.4 KB
ID:	766943

    Long rifle No. xx76:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	xx76_01.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	39.4 KB
ID:	766944Click image for larger version.

Name:	xx76_05.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	139.5 KB
ID:	766945

    Long rifle No. unknown1:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt1.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	31.2 KB
ID:	766946

    Long rifle No. unknown2:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt2_02.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	66.2 KB
ID:	766947

    Long rifle No. unknown3:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt3_05.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	37.2 KB
ID:	766948

    Long rifle No. unknown4:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. unknown5:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. unknown6:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. unknown7:

    No picture available

    Long rifle No. unknown8:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt8_01.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	218.8 KB
ID:	767121

    Long rifle No. unknown9:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt9.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	252.0 KB
ID:	767122

    Long rifle No. unknown10:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt10.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	78.3 KB
ID:	767123 (rifle deactivated)

    Long rifle No. unknown11:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt11.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	269.3 KB
ID:	767420
    Last edited by 7x57; 08-18-2014 at 04:24 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  33. #32
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    Part VIII:

    Short rifle No. 1056:

    No picture available

    Short rifle No. 1062:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1062_2_01.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	19.1 KB
ID:	766949Click image for larger version.

Name:	1062_2_03.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	47.3 KB
ID:	766950

    Short rifle No. 1108:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1108.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	71.9 KB
ID:	766951

    Short rifle No. 1138:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1138.JPG
Views:	27
Size:	20.6 KB
ID:	766952

    Short rifle No. 1233:

    No picture available

    Short rifle No. 1235:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1235_01.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	281.0 KB
ID:	767436Click image for larger version.

Name:	1235_02.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	147.0 KB
ID:	767437

    Short rifle No. 1255:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1255_03.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	14.7 KB
ID:	767438

    Short rifle No. 1376:

    No picture available

    Short rifle No. 1452:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1452_01.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	75.6 KB
ID:	766953Click image for larger version.

Name:	1452_08.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	70.8 KB
ID:	766954

    Short rifle No. 1465:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1465.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	67.1 KB
ID:	766955 (only bayonet known)

    Short rifle No. 1511:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1511_01.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	256.4 KB
ID:	766956Click image for larger version.

Name:	1511_22.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	49.9 KB
ID:	766957
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-08-2014 at 02:35 PM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  34. #33
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    Part IX:

    Short rifle No. 1600:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1600_02.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	109.7 KB
ID:	767423Click image for larger version.

Name:	1600_03.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	82.5 KB
ID:	767424

    Short rifle No. 1695:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1695_01.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	138.2 KB
ID:	767421Click image for larger version.

Name:	1695_11.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	139.8 KB
ID:	767422

    Short rifle No. 1827:

    No picture available (only bolt known)

    Short rifle No. 1841:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1841_02.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	85.9 KB
ID:	766961Click image for larger version.

Name:	1841_09.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	34.6 KB
ID:	766962

    Short rifle No. 1845:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1845_01.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	83.9 KB
ID:	766963Click image for larger version.

Name:	1845_02.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	43.9 KB
ID:	766964 (from Robert Ball's great book)

    Short rifle No. 1862:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1862.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	86.5 KB
ID:	766965

    Short rifle No. 1979:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1979_01.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	202.5 KB
ID:	766966Click image for larger version.

Name:	1979_02.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	155.1 KB
ID:	766967
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-08-2014 at 06:50 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  35. #34
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    Don't know why in Part V and Part VI some picture do not show up correctly...

    Okay - did it. But again one thumbnail in Part I I can't get rid of...
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-07-2014 at 07:02 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy View Post
    Here is # 4924 Click image for larger version.

Name:	IMG_9454.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	359.1 KB
ID:	766904
    Thanks. Candidate No. 1 for the next update...

    ... Done
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-07-2014 at 11:18 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  37. #36
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    Interesting link with some nice information on the Brazilian 1935 Mauser:

    http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...148partial.pdf
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  38. #37
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    Latest finds added:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Scannen0010.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	342.8 KB
ID:	767131Click image for larger version.

Name:	Scannen0011.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	305.5 KB
ID:	767137
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  39. #38
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    A little bit updated...


    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Survey_Mauser_1935_04-08-2014_1.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	155.2 KB
ID:	767439Click image for larger version.

Name:	Survey_Mauser_1935_04-08-2014_2.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	149.9 KB
ID:	767440
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  40. #39
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    Hi folks,

    please feel free to correct errors and fill data gaps if you recognize your 1935 Brazilian Mauser on one of the pictures I collected from the WEB (quite a few came from threads here in the forum, too...). Of course I don't want to press anybody, but will be glad for every piece of information. Thanks a lot.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  41. #40
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    1935 Brazilian long rifle, #4334, VG cond, was US$320 in 2011, all matching, no accessories.
    Hungarian Weapons: http://www.hungariae.com

  42. #41
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    Thanks for the contribution.

    A short summary of my conclusion from all the information I gathered until now:

    - Total production run of Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser rifles not more than 8,000 examples
    - Those 8,000 examples were made up of 7,000 long rifles and 1,000 carbines (the latter with serial numbers between 1000 and 1999)
    - At least two production batches ordered of 4,000 rifles each
    - The first production batch (for 3,000 long rifles and 1,000 carbines) was ordered on May 8, 1935 and obviously completed/delivered during
    September 1935 (as stated in the order book and evidenced by the date on the factory test target of long rifle No. 2690)
    - A second batch of 4,000 guns must have been ordered (whether this was one big order or a number of smaller orders is unclear until now)
    in 1936 or early 1937. At least production/delivery of guns with serial nos. higher than 4000 took place in April/May 1937 - as evidenced by the test
    target dates available

    I recently had an interesting conversation with a former employee from Frankonia Waffen Wrzburg (this company imported and still imports nearly all military surplus guns which come on the market in Germany). He remembered quite well when these Brazilian Mauser rifles came to his company somewhere in the 1970s, because he was one of the guys tasked with uncrating them.
    He told me that the first deliveries of long rifles came in the original zinc crates which were still unopened and sealed since their delivery in the 1930s. These crates contained the rifles in their factory oil paper wrapping, covered with cosmoline together with their matching bayonets, slings, muzzle protectors and factory test targets. Later deliveries came in open wire boxes, mostly lacking accessoires like bayonets etc. at all or at least no longer with matching numbers.
    If I take this into account and the normally more or less mint condition of the long rifles I did find during my survey, it is highly probable that most, if not all, of the long rifles Model 1935 were never issued or at least only issued for duties like parades etc., where they did not suffer any significant wear. With the carbines this seems to be a different story however - they mostly show much more traces of wear and normally seem to have been issued. Okay, there were only 1,000 of them available and when the Model 1935 was delivered, the era of long rifles was already coming to an end, there were surely still plenty of Model 1908 long rifles around with the Brazilian armed forces and so the Model 1935 long rifles were simply put in store until needed - what obviously never happened.
    Last edited by 7x57; 04-09-2014 at 03:38 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  43. #42
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    Part X:

    New finds:

    Long rifle No. 5475:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	5475_04.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	768676Click image for larger version.

Name:	5475_01.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	768677

    Long rifle No. 6777:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	6777.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	19.8 KB
ID:	768678

    Long rifle No. 7215:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7215_02.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	251.9 KB
ID:	768672Click image for larger version.

Name:	7215_01.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	768673 (rifle modified for blank firing only)

    Long rifle No. 7800:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7800_01.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	43.0 KB
ID:	767811Click image for larger version.

Name:	7800_08.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	75.0 KB
ID:	767812

    Long rifle No. 7910:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	7910.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	25.4 KB
ID:	768674

    Long rifle No. unknown12:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	unbekannt12_02.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	20.0 KB
ID:	768675
    Last edited by 7x57; 08-18-2014 at 10:51 PM. Reason: New finds added
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  44. #43
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    First of all a very special thanks to Mr. Jon Speed, long-standing researcher of the Mauser history, owner of an immense collection of materials and documents from Mauser company archives and a lot of Mauser hardware - all this enabled him to write quite a number of fine books on a lot of Mauser-related topics (amongst them company history, Mauser sporting rifles, Mauser handguns and of course the K98). John Wall was so kind to bring me in contact with him (thank you, John) and Mr. Speed provided me with some crucial documents from his collection which added extremely valuable details on Brazilian Mauser Model 1935 production numbers to the findings of my own survey.

    All these data taken into account, it is now quite certain that my original assumption of a production run of only 8,000 Model 1935 rifles & carbines for Brazil is correct.

    This total of 8,000 guns consisted of 7,000 long rifles and 1,000 carbines and was most obviously ordered in two blocks of 4,000 guns each. The first of these blocks was ordered in the first half of May 1935 (as evidenced by two of the documents posted earlier in this thread) and was produced/delivered until September 1935, which perfectly fits with the annotation "4 months" in the document entry dated May 8th, 1935 and the testing date of long rifle No. 2690.

    Further evidence for this first production batch comes from one document and an additional information I received from Jon Speed. The document (see attachments below) lists the receivables of the Mauser company as to September 30th, 1935 and shows a position of RM 110,000.00 (debitor: So Paulo State Government). This seems to be the second half of the payment for the first lot of 4,000 Model 1935 rifles - according to the available documents usual way of payment was 50% with signing of the contract and 50% at delivery. Jon Speed just informed me that he found in his Mauser company records the first payment rate of RM 110,000.00 also.

    So Brazil paid RM 220,000.00 for those 4,000 guns. The document entry of May 8th, 1935 shows a price per gun of RM 51.00 and a commission of 8% - this added, the price per gun would be RM 55.00 or RM 220,000.00 for the whole production batch.

    A second production batch (again of 4,000 guns - this time only long rifles) was ordered somewhere after March 1936 and obviously completed/delivered until April/May 1937, as evidenced by the document entry of March 24th, 1936 and the available testing dates for rifles with serial nos. higher than 4000.

    Jon Speed sent me documents (see attachment) which show a payment from Brazil in 1936 for RM 227,500.00 and a second one in 1937 for RM 49,880.74 - a total of RM 277,380.74. In the document entry of March 24th, 1936 the price per Model 35 gun is stated at RM 66.00 and the commission is at 5% - resulting in RM 69.30 per gun. This amounts for 4,000 guns to a total of RM 277,200.00 - the small difference of RM 180.74 is negligible in this case, I think.

    Here the last set of documents I received from Jon Speed (original and translation):

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	1935.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	67.2 KB
ID:	768101Click image for larger version.

Name:	1936+1937.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	51.0 KB
ID:	768102Click image for larger version.

Name:	P1080512.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	291.0 KB
ID:	768103Click image for larger version.

Name:	P1080529.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	181.9 KB
ID:	768104Click image for larger version.

Name:	P1080533.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	243.7 KB
ID:	768105

    Also a little bit updated again:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Survey_Mauser_1935_04-10-2014_1.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	176.1 KB
ID:	768106Click image for larger version.

Name:	Survey_Mauser_1935_04-10-2014_2.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	158.8 KB
ID:	768107

    I think, the main goal - figuring out the production data - has been achieved now (thanks again to Jon and John, without your generous assistance this would not have been possible). But I'll keep this survey active and if I get new information or make new finds somewhere, I'll add them.

    I think, every owner of a Brazilian 1935 Mauser can be proud of a relatively rare breed - especially those who possess a carbine version.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  45. #44
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    Thank you for your efforts to organize this information.

  46. #45
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    Just received from Jon Speed the lacking document concerning payment of the first rate of the 1935 contract. Here it is, again together with a translation:

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	P1080549.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	304.4 KB
ID:	768108Click image for larger version.

Name:	payments.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	59.0 KB
ID:	768109

    Additionally, this document states the exact delivery date - September 23, 1935.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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