Small survey on Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser - Page 3
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Thread: Small survey on Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser

  1. #91
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    More new finds:

    Long rifle No. 3596:
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ID:	889346 (Bayonet only)

    Long rifle No. 4669:
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    Long rifle No. 4994:
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ID:	889349

    Long rifle No. 5192:
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ID:	889351

    Long rifle No. 5197:
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ID:	889352 (Bayonet only)

    Long rifle No. 7000:
    No picture available

    Long rifle No. 7640:
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    Last edited by 7x57; 04-22-2015 at 03:38 AM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  2. #92
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    And last not least one new member to the ranks of those rare short rifles - maybe we'll see here more of this one in the next future (rumours say that a forum member acquired it recently - my congratulations to a nice, rare rifle):

    Short rifle No. 1299:
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ID:	889365
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  3. #93
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    7X57, your inbox is full. I have a question for you on a short rifle when you get a chance to clear you inbox.

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  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBulge75 View Post
    7X57, your inbox is full. I have a question for you on a short rifle when you get a chance to clear you inbox.
    Thanks - that's something I frequently don't recognize. Now it works again.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  6. #95
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    Another update:

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    One new find:

    Long rifle No. 1462:

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    This new find also is another piece of evidence that there are obviously some long rifles with serial numbers clearly falling into the short rifles' number block (1000-1999). When I discovered the first one (No. 1523) of these oddly numbered long rifles, I was convinced that this was simply a typing error, because I had only the serial number mentioned in the rifle's description, no photo caption of the number itself. But recently there have shown up two more (Nos. 1425 & 1462) - this time with photographic evidence.

    Maybe the two M1935 bayonet serial numbers 1465 and 1557 listed in the short rifles' section are in fact also serial numbers belonging to long rifles.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
    And last not least one new member to the ranks of those rare short rifles - maybe we'll see here more of this one in the next future (rumours say that a forum member acquired it recently - my congratulations to a nice, rare rifle):

    Short rifle No. 1299:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	889363 Click image for larger version. 

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    I was just the winning bidder on this rifle #1299 on GB. However I also just noticed the previous buyer left negative feedback stating rifle is not matching and is re-finished. Can anyone lend some insight? When I started bidding on this rifle the feedback wasn't there. In actuality the first auction went to around $360 and was cancelled. Seller said it was because it was double listed. Because the auction has been going on for awhile I completely missed the feedback (left after auction started) til now that the auction has ended. Any help would be appreciated. If this rifle is what previous buyer says it is I do not want to throw away money.

  8. #97
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    Capt14k,
    i was the previous winner of that gun and returned it. They are extremely rare so depending on what you spent and what it means to you, you may decide to keep it. I emailed the seller in detail about the gun prior to bidding with some help from 7x57. He swore it was all correct and matching. Once I got the gun it had the following issues:
    -firing pin had pitting and had been blued
    -I believe one of the bands was reblued
    -it had pitting all over under the wood line and looked to be spot re-blued including the barrel and magazine. Pitting under the bluing.
    -the stock was not matching but in the 1000 range so possibly from another short rifle
    -the hand guard was ill fitting and numbered in the 5000s and so probably from another variation short rifle (Chilean?)

    He also shipped the gun with the bolt in the receiver and the gun crammed in newspaper.

    In any event, he completely misrepresented the gun. I emailed him and told him I assumed it was an honest mistake and told him I would ensure no negative feedback as long as he took care of the transaction. I even paid shipping both ways. He eventually refunded my $. He then went on to leave me negative feedback yet admitting that he told me the gun was matching (he claims with 98% bluing in the auction) while
    complaining I retuned the gun because it was non-matching!

    As with most of us here, my reputation is paramount. Needless to say I would never do business with him again.

    Quote Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
    I was just the winning bidder on this rifle #1299 on GB. However I also just noticed the previous buyer left negative feedback stating rifle is not matching and is re-finished. Can anyone lend some insight? When I started bidding on this rifle the feedback wasn't there. In actuality the first auction went to around $360 and was cancelled. Seller said it was because it was double listed. Because the auction has been going on for awhile I completely missed the feedback (left after auction started) til now that the auction has ended. Any help would be appreciated. If this rifle is what previous buyer says it is I do not want to throw away money.

  9. #98
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    I forgot to mentioned that the bayonet lug had been blued (should be in the white) and a few other issues. I atleast couldn't see that from his first auction pictures.

  10. #99
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    I paid almost what you had paid for the rifle. He listed it the exact same way. When I first started bidding on the rifle there was an auction for it that was 2 hours from ending and it was cancelled the bid was at $360. The seller said he double listed it which could have been the case. I was only following the first auction I found. I honestly didn't bother checking his feedback after the auctions started. When I clicked on his name to find selller info is when I found the feedback left. I appreciate your info. If the rifle has parts from a completely different rifle and parts were re-blued I am not interested in the rifle. The seller should have represented these findings in the auction.

  11. #100
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    @ capt14k
    please have a look at 7x57's new 1935 SR: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...serial-numbers

    My impression: If your SR is in same or better conditions (e.g. rust pitting on left receiver side), it might be worth the price you paid for it.
    Please remember: they made only 1000 SR, and they got much more wear than the long rifles, which (some of them) never went out of their crate in Brazil.
    My own SR 1270 is in worse conditions, with significant pitting below the wood line (i'll provide pics the next days). But they made only 1000 of it ...

    Chris

    BTW: the stock is not matching : if it's outside 1000-1999, it's not from a Short Rifle. The hand guard seems to be sure outside the SR # range.

  12. #101
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    i just saw the pics of your new SR on GB:
    condition of yours looks much better than on mine. Mine has significant more rust pitting on the trigger guard and on the left crossbolt. I also assume mine has more pitting under the wood line. On the contrary, my stock looks better (right receiver side).
    Chris

  13. #102
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    My problem with this auction now is that the seller should have disclosed what the previous buyer discovered in his re-listing. I have asked for more detailed pictures of the metal and I am willing to complete the transaction if the metal is all correct (other than the bayonet lug) even though the stock is mismatched and the upper handguard is from a completely different rifle and is a completely different type of wood. The seller has yet to provide me with all the pictures requested. I obviously should have asked questions before hand, but based on the fact the previous buyer returned the rifle and discovered the non matching parts and the seller didn't include this info in his listing I do not think the questions would have been answered honestly. Also being that the seller just said in an email he is "done with this" after sending me some picture none of which contain the bolt and firing pin as requested or the numbers below the wood. My guess is the seller knows there is more issues with the metal than he stated in his auction. If he sends me the other pics and we complete this transaction great. If not hopefully he will fully disclose everything the next time he lists the gun for sale.
    Last edited by capt14k; 06-02-2015 at 12:12 AM.

  14. #103
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    Default Pictures sent by Seller of 1935 Brazilian Mauser #1299

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  15. #104
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  16. #105
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    My saga has ended on the purchase that was not meant to be. The seller has agreed to re-list 1935 Brazilian Mauser Short Rifle #1299. I have agreed to re-imburse the seller the $25 in Gunbroker Fees. My biggest problems with the rifle were the upper handguard being from a completely different type of rifle made from a different type of wood and all the parts that were supposed to be in the white being blued. I could live with the mismatched stock because at least it was a 1935 Brazilian Short Rifle Stock so it could have been Arsenal replaced. The seller has promised to include the mismatched stock and handguard in the new listing but has yet to say if he will also mention which parts are blued that should be in the white. Honestly during all my questions he avoided the question about the blued parts that should be in the white. My guess is at a minimum those parts were blued by someone in the States at some point. My search continues. If anyone has a 1935 Brazilian Mauser Short Rifle they would like to sell please PM me.

  17. #106
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    Default Small survey on Brazilian Model 1935 Mauser

    Quote Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
    My saga has ended on the purchase that was not meant to be. The seller has agreed to re-list 1935 Brazilian Mauser Short Rifle #1299. I have agreed to re-imburse the seller the $25 in Gunbroker Fees. My biggest problems with the rifle were the upper handguard being from a completely different type of rifle made from a different type of wood and all the parts that were supposed to be in the white being blued. I could live with the mismatched stock because at least it was a 1935 Brazilian Short Rifle Stock so it could have been Arsenal replaced. The seller has promised to include the mismatched stock and handguard in the new listing but has yet to say if he will also mention which parts are blued that should be in the white. Honestly during all my questions he avoided the question about the blued parts that should be in the white. My guess is at a minimum those parts were blued by someone in the States at some point. My search continues. If anyone has a 1935 Brazilian Mauser Short Rifle they would like to sell please PM me.
    Neither of you mentioned that the seller stated the following in his listings, including the one that he posted after the rifle was returned: "All the numbers I can see are matching except the cleaning rod." I guess that's technically a true statement ... I also noticed that he didn't leave a "D" for capt14k even though the rifle was returned for the same reason.

    There are some beautiful rifles posted in this thread. If I didn't want one before, I do now.
    Last edited by Abulg1972; 06-11-2015 at 06:13 PM.

  18. #107
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    Yes technically the seller didn't lie, but he did omit the findings of the previous buyer which he did admit he should of included and I admitted I should have asked more specific questions. I never actually received the rifle and I did offer to buy it for $125 less because the upper handguard wasn't even correct to the rifle. I also paid for his lost gunbroker fees $25. The seller decided to keep the rifle in the end. If he would have revealed the findings about the stock from the previous buyer I would have only gone to $600 but I did offer $650 in addition to the $25 I sent the seller. That is why we both agreed it was a miscommunication and both left positive feedback for each other.

  19. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
    Yes technically the seller didn't lie, but he did omit the findings of the previous buyer which he did admit he should of included and I admitted I should have asked more specific questions. I never actually received the rifle and I did offer to buy it for $125 less because the upper handguard wasn't even correct to the rifle. I also paid for his lost gunbroker fees $25. The seller decided to keep the rifle in the end. If he would have revealed the findings about the stock from the previous buyer I would have only gone to $600 but I did offer $650 in addition to the $25 I sent the seller. That is why we both agreed it was a miscommunication and both left positive feedback for each other.
    You are a very generous, forgiving soul.

  20. #109
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    finally, some pics of my 1935 SR (pics were made with flash, so the colors are not really true. Sorry!).
    Condition is similar-worse to 7x57's sample: good (original) blueing on the surface, but heavy rust pitting below the wood line.
    Non-matching numbers: bolt (is a 1908/34 Brazil Czech bolt), magazine cover, hand guard, sling (seems to be a Chile 1935)

    Some bolts were removed for cleaning, they're missing on the pics.

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    Some pitting details:
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    best regards, Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CIMG1556.jpg  

  21. #110
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    Hi,
    Rifle refers to the K98k, or? Carbine dimensions? Sorta confusing.
    Subvet

  22. #111
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    #1570, carbine in excellent condition, civilian proofs.

  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subvet View Post
    #1570, carbine in excellent condition, civilian proofs.
    Thanks, Subvet. Any picture(s) available?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  24. #113
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    Long rifle #601 was just sold over here: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5516779 . Lots of pics available.
    demilled, new condition, matching serial #, w/o sling

    Chris

  25. #114
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    Thanks, Chris. Already included in my private database - I guess an update here is long overdue, but at the moment I'm a little bit scarce on time...
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  26. #115
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    Update - long overdue, indeed!

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    And here the "newcomers":

    Long rifle No. 601:
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ID:	915789 Regrettably, this nice rifle has been deactivated...

    Long rifle No. 3583:
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    Long rifle No. 4257:
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    Long rifle No. 4990:
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    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  27. #116
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    More "newcomers":

    Long rifle No. 5419:
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    Long rifle No. 5545:
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    Long rifle No. 6340:
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    Long rifle No. unknown21:
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    Long rifle No. unknown22:
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    Short rifle No. 1055:
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    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  28. #117
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    Last batch:

    Short rifle No. 1139:
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ID:	915807 Another one which I've owned for a short time and returned to the seller - this time due to a cracked stock

    Short rifle No. 1567:
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    Short rifle No. 1570:
    No picture available
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  29. #118
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    Finally got around to taking pictures of my one!

    Serial number is 779.

    It is still in the original grease and has not been shot since coming out of the crate -

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    Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-Ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

  30. #119
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    Some extra pictures, and it has no rust on the floorplate or barrel, just old grease -

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-Ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

  31. #120
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    Very nice rifles - thanks for sharing. Will include the M1935 in my list, of course. Another early example and the second early one I've seen so far with an M1908 bayonet instead of the correct M1935 bayonet. So my question - did this bayonet already come with the rifle or did you add it?

    BTW - I can understand your hesitation to shoot them only too well. I had to make a decision at that same point, too. I shot my M1935 and will shoot my M1908 as well as soon as I find time for it. And believe me - not to shoot these rifles means that you will miss really a lot of fun and satisfaction.
    Last edited by 7x57; 08-22-2015 at 02:44 PM.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  32. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
    Very nice rifles - thanks for sharing. Will include the M1935 in my list, of course. Another early example and the second early one I've seen so far with an M1908 bayonet instead of the correct M1935 bayonet. So my question - did this bayonet already come with the rifle or did you add it?

    BTW - I can understand your hesitation to shoot them only too well. I had to make a decision at that same point, too. I shot my M1935 and will shoot my M1908 as well as soon as I find time for it. And believe me - not to shoot these rifles means that you will miss really a lot of fun and satisfaction.
    Not sure about the M1935's bayonet, I think I got the bayonet for it later but cannot remember where it came from now.

    I have a few other very nice used 7x57mm examples including an excellent condition Chilean 7x57mm M1912 model that I shoot and they all seem to shoot as well as the others so I feel I am missing nothing by not shooting them and it only adds to their value as a unused example as it seems most now are being used.
    Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-Ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

  33. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwedeM96 View Post
    I have a few other very nice used 7x57mm examples including an excellent condition Chilean 7x57mm M1912 model that I shoot and they all seem to shoot as well as the others so I feel I am missing nothing by not shooting them and it only adds to their value as a unused example as it seems most now are being used.
    Well, due to our restrictive firearms regulations I'm not so lucky to possess a lot of other rifles for shooting, so I hardly can afford the "luxury" not to shoot one of my rifles. But in your case I also would refrain from shooting such a (nearly - because at least test-firing has been done for sure) unshot rifle.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    I have a long rifle to add. I'll dig it out after work today.
    "Don't rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again." -Bertolt Brecht

  35. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milsurp2.0 View Post
    I have a long rifle to add. I'll dig it out after work today.
    Thanks for contributing. You know, pictures and some information (bought when, price paid, accessories) are always welcome.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  36. #125
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    Am I missing something with the latest GB sale for 1935 Brazilian Mauser Short Rifle or has the magic grey blanket lost its powers? Sold for $420? I inquired about it asking for pics broken down but I declined so I didn't really bother looking at it closely. Curious what the opinion is of those who know much more than myself.

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  37. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milsurp2.0 View Post
    I have a long rifle to add. I'll dig it out after work today.
    Oh boy, you must work in some sweatshop, looks like you didn't get out from work since close to two months now.


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    Many issues with that gun. The fonts on the serial numbers vary badly. Look at the consistency of the "6" for example in each SN. I also inquired about this gun. It hadn't been taken out of the wood, as this seller does for many other correctly matching mausers I've seen him sell. The stock is not numbered on the butt and they didn't know about the internals. Add obvious bad pitting under the wood and you have a mismatched gun with bad pitting and likely shenanigans with the serial numbers.....or "force matching" as it is sometimes referred. I have two of the nicest long rifles in existence and I can tell you the Germans didn't just pick up any old die and slap a serial number on these.

    Quote Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
    Am I missing something with the latest GB sale for 1935 Brazilian Mauser Short Rifle or has the magic grey blanket lost its powers? Sold for $420? I inquired about it asking for pics broken down but I declined so I didn't really bother looking at it closely. Curious what the opinion is of those who know much more than myself.

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    Last edited by JBulge75; 10-14-2015 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Grammar

  39. #128
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    I have to look at the pictures more closely. When he said he wouldn't be able to take it out of the wood something didn't sound right so I decided to not go after it. I'm glad I didn't bid. Thank you for the info. One day I would like to own one and now I know another thing to look for.

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  40. #129
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    Well, during my survey I found the oldest traces of this one dating from 2004. As far as I recognized, it has been for sale now for the fourth time.

    There exist stocks with the serial number on the underside of the wrist and without (have seen in flesh both variants). But inside they are always stamped with the complete serial number, as are the handguards.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  41. #130
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    Default Brazilian 1935 Bayonets

    Here are a few M1935 bayonets from my ummm....... collection. Greasy grimey in the raw.

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  42. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
    Here are a few M1935 bayonets from my ummm....... collection. Greasy grimey in the raw.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Liberty, with such a vast collection maybe you're the person who can give me the long awaited answer to the following question: Are bayonets for SHORT M1935 rifles out there on a comparable scale to those of the long rifles? So far I never observed a short M1935 together with a bayonet (let alone the matching bayonet) and only two bayonets (without rifle) with a serial number falling into the 1000-1999 range. And since I've also observed a few LONG rifles with a serial number out of this range, these two bayonets might well have belonged to such rifles. But if your collection has some more bayonets out of the short rifles' serial number range, this would be an additional hint that bayonets were provided with short rifles, too.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  43. #132
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    Gunbrother, here is the M1935 Bayonet serial number list. hope it helps the research.

    150, 162, 205, 181, 395, 610, 699, 939, 1005, 1088, 1137, 1218, 1348, 1456, 1464, 1640, 1682, 1684, 1722, 1942, 2147, 2299, 2387, 2424, 2627, 2887, 3105, 3191, 3301, 3356, 3394, 3523, 3650, 3930, 3932, 4926, 4950, 5026, 5389,5551, 5575, 5743, 5776, 5875, 6388, 6659, 6906, 6908, 7419, 7793,

    Regards Liberty!

  44. #133
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    Thanks a lot Liberty! Great listing and exactly the answer on my question. BTW - you're owning bayonet No. 1137, I once had the two rifles with the following serial nos. (but regrettably both with such issues that I returned them to the seller).

    IMHO your list is proof enough that also the short M1935 rifles were issued with a bayonet - or at least a large part of them. In the original tender for this contract the Mauser Works offered a price for rifles with and one for rifles without a bayonet - so maybe also some (short and long) rifles didn't come with a bayonet, but that's only an asumption. In my eyes it's more likely that the Brazilians ordered all rifles with a bayonet, which is supported by the (also known to me) overall payments made by them.

    All these documents I mentioned here you may find earlier in this thread (original plus an English translation).
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  45. #134
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    Default Jon Speed revised correct data re-1908 contract

    I am not positive which thread Jon Speed wanted this added too, but here is his post and pictures he wanted to share with researchers:

    //I was looking at Gunboards site recently and a man asked about status of Oberndorf made Brazil 1908 Mauser's for which original contract was for 100,000 Rifles. I provided some data on this in the past but now have the 100% correct data with 2 Mauser firm docs I hope tells the real story. Any remaining rifles could have been sold off to other world wide dealers or kept in Inventory and or used up by German forces During war . Regards, Jon

    1. Doc signed by Mauser Director Mr. Doll in December 1913. This is the Brazil Status doc that shows that by Sept. 15, 1913 that 39,000 Rifles were shipped out. By Sept. 20, 48,000 were packed for shipping. total = 87,000 . In Dec. 1913 the Brazilians Failed to pay for last 23,000 Rifles as I just found in Mauser Sales book that shows the failed payments = 23,000 Rifles.

    2. Sales book Entry Brazil, Dec. 1913, Failed payments for 23,000 rifles. This would mean only 77,000 Oberndorf Rifles were finally shipped to Brazil. Regards, Jon //


    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    Hi 7x57,
    Many thanks for your information and translations. These are very helpful! I am attaching three other documents which Jon sent me recently. Perhaps you could tranalate theswe if you have a few minutes to spare? The first and duplicate seond pages are a short Mauser Co. document confirming the 1000 carbine/3000 Mdl rifle order, the fourth (and last page) is an Oberndorf/ DWM Berlin letter which explains the use of the Oberndorf name and double letter serial numbering on the last Brazil M1908 order circa 1914; and the third is the first page from the Mauser-Chilean contract for the Model 1935 Carabineros order for 10,000 carbines.

    Sorry for the mix-up of the page postings.
    Best Regards,
    John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1030099aL.jpg   P1030103aL.jpg  

  46. #135
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    Great documents! English translations you may find here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...Rifle-How-many
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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