Soviet Refurbishment Facilities Identified (including "/1\")
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Thread: Soviet Refurbishment Facilities Identified (including "/1\")

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    Default Soviet Refurbishment Facilities Identified (including "/1\")

    Thanks to the great work of the Russian researcher Ruslan Chumak, several of the repair markings found on refurbished Soviet weapons have now been positively identified. I have translated his table (for the most part and poorly), and any mistakes are mine alone. See the attachment below, for some reason the board keeps shrinking the image inside the post. A big thank you also to forum member Ratnik for forwarding me the information!

    Important: the "/1\" has been definitely identified as the marking of the 1871st ABV in Liski, Russia. It is not at all connected to East Germany. The "DDR Mosin" myth is now completely busted, if I haven't busted it enough already. The words "DDR" and "Mosin" should not even be used in the same sentence. Ever.

    ABV (АБВ) = Aртиллерийская База Вооружения, Artillery Base for Ordnance
    GRAU (ГРАУ) = Главное ракетно-артиллерийское управление МО, Main Missile and Artillery Directorate of the Ministry of Defense

    For those of you who read Russian, Ruslan's full article can be located here: http://www.artillery-museum.ru/asset...onf-2014-4.pdf. The last two arsenals in the table were not fully identified before the article was published, but Mr. Chumak posted an update to his table on guns.ru which Ratnik generously forwarded to me.

    *Update: I completely missed the changes to the symbols of two arsenals in the latest update: 40th Arsenal and 1827th ABV. Fixed.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SovArtBases5.jpg  
    Last edited by RyanE; 08-29-2014 at 12:04 PM.

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    Most excellent.

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    amazing work; thanks ryan for posting it.

    Here is a big version of it-


    Last edited by Spaxspore; 08-29-2014 at 12:07 PM. Reason: UPDATED 8-29-2014

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    Thank you for posting this!
    Hebrews 13:8

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    So, this is from an article? Actual documents? Link does not work, BTW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    So, this is from an article? Actual documents? Link does not work, BTW.
    Link should be fixed. Yes, all of this is meticulously researched by Mr. Chumak, who served in the GRAU, in the archives.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RyanE; 08-28-2014 at 08:40 PM.

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    Link does not work. Just a "404" notice.

    Thank you RyanE for posting this. Great work. You may have been debunking the /1\=DDR myth but the Mosin-Nagant and the NVA or KdA can be used in the same sentence insofar as the DDR did field some WWII-vintage Soviet small arms, particularly the Shpagin SMG. You may "have busted it enough already" but finally we have documentation.

    In light of the new info, I'll go ahead and update my Mosin-Nagant data sheets to reflect which particular facility "refurbished" the rifle. I have one Liski Moscow district rifle.

    Question: Solnechny and Alatyr, e.g. ABV Turkestan and 5th Grau are quite similar. I have several "refurbs" that bear simply a diamond/trapezoid shape with no other additional lines. Is this mark still another facility awaiting another article, or is it associated with one or another of the Solnechny and Alatyr plants?

    Question 2: It would seem that Blakleya did vast numbers of stocks while No. 7th at Riga in Latvia/Lettland did vast numbers of the hot-dipped re-blued refurbished barreled actions, no?

    Again, thank you for the translation. I've saved the table and this weekend it will be great to add this terrific new information.
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanE View Post
    Link should be fixed. Yes, all of this is meticulously researched by Mr. Chumak, who served I'm the GRAU, on the archives.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    I get:
    Ошибка 404
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanE View Post
    Link should be fixed. Yes, all of this is meticulously researched by Mr. Chumak, who served I'm the GRAU, on the archives.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    works now. Ty

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    While folks will be very furiously going over the revelation about the true meaning of the /1\ marking, I'd like to point out--although I'm sure very many folks have already done so--that the /9\ mark appears here too... So this is also a boon. In fact, the single nicest Soviet refurbished 91/30 I own is from that very spot.
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaxspore View Post
    works now. Ty
    спасібо Spax! Thanks again, RyanE!!
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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    Now if we just discover the meaning of the infamous MO mark..i will be as happy as a turtle in mud
    Last edited by Spaxspore; 08-28-2014 at 08:39 PM.

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    Sounds like a sticky.

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    Thank you for posting!

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    THANK YOU!! Sticky please.
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    Holy moly this should get a sticky in big bold letters.
    If you have a 1919 Izhevsk/Tula Mosin Nagant, please add your data here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...-Tula-Database

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    I wonder how many people are going to keep saying its DDR haha. Sticky this!
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveccarlson View Post
    Question: Solnechny and Alatyr, e.g. ABV Turkestan and 5th Grau are quite similar. I have several "refurbs" that bear simply a diamond/trapezoid shape with no other additional lines. Is this mark still another facility awaiting another article, or is it associated with one or another of the Solnechny and Alatyr plants?
    No, probably not. There are probably dozens of these markings at a minimum. The ones in the table are only those which Chumak has positively identified. He may identify more markings in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by daveccarlson View Post
    Question 2: It would seem that Blakleya did vast numbers of stocks while No. 7th at Riga in Latvia/Lettland did vast numbers of the hot-dipped re-blued refurbished barreled actions, no?
    No idea. I don't pay much attention to refurbs. As a German collector, my interest was only in smashing the DDR myth lol.

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    Double post. Ooops.

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    I look forward to it!

    I'd say that you have, indeed "busted the myth" of the DDR markings... Great stuff! Oh yes. STICKY.
    As for my refurbs--which I spend a great deal of attention on:
    If this information is correct, then my Mosin-Nagant rifles were refurbished at the following facilities:

    1924 РСФСР Tula at 1st GRAU Balakleya
    1928 CCCP Tula at 7th GRAU Riga
    1927 Izhevsk at 1st GRAU Balakleya
    1930 Izhevsk at 7th GRAU Riga
    1941 no maker at 5th GRAU Alatyr or ABV Turkestan Solnechny or an as yet undisclosed facility
    1929 Tula /1\ at Moscow, Liski [yes, I bought it as a "DDR mark" but it is still quite nice...]
    My 1944 Tula remains unknown with the [l] mark that will hopefully be identified
    My 1941 Izhevsk hex bears the <> that could be either 5th GRAU Alatyr or ABV Turkestan or still another facility.
    My third 1941 Izhevsk hex at 2nd GRAU Kiev
    My 1939 Izhevsk at Serbdosk

    I'm pulling out my magnifying glass to give some others a going over, including my 1921 Izhevsk!
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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    In the words of Epictetus, "Somethings appear to be and, yet, they are not."

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    Default Many thanks

    No word on OXO, XO, CQC, or ..../25\ ?

    Forgive me : what is a GRAUL ?

    Thank you for the research and clearing some fog off the mystery marks .

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    No word on OXO, XO, CQC, or ..../25\ ?

    Forgive me : what is a GRAUL ?

    Thank you for the research and clearing some fog off the mystery marks .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRAU
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveccarlson View Post
    I look forward to it!

    I'd say that you have, indeed "busted the myth" of the DDR markings...
    The credit is entirely Ruslan Chumak's for his research and Ratnik for sending me his work.

    I'm just the messenger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveccarlson View Post
    Thanks Dave, clears that up for me.

    We can assume the refurb work was done on 91/30 post war at these Grau ?

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    Military post codes in question could very well be numbers of military units as all military units had their own five digit ID numbers back in USSR time, they were called "voyskovaya chast" number_ _ _ _ _

    Lc

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    OH No!The Sheep Have Hit The Fence!Now!What do I do with that /1\ stamped sling on my /1\ 91/30 PU Sniper?
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    The 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th marks from the bottom are foreign to me. I'd love to see it on a gun if you guys have it.

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    There is AT LEAST one more facility out there that is still unidentified. I have a refurbed 1942 Izhevsk 91-30 with a refurb mark that I call a 'drawn bow'. I haven't seen or heard of this mark elsewhere.

    Description: Take two equal length straight lines at 90 degrees to each other and connect the ends of those two legs with the arc of a circle that uses the intersection point of the two straight lines as its center. Then, bisect the corner formed by the two straight legs with another straight line that ends at the center of the arc. As I said, it looks a bit like a drawn longbow with an arrow nocked up.

    Sort of like this (if you squeeze it all together): <-)

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    this has rocked my poor little world. So my triple date DDR isn't at all? Oh, my poor little head hurts. So now I gotta call it something else? You know, like this Sunday when I go shoot my DDR. Going to shoot my 1871st ABV in Liski, Russia takes too dang long!! Thats ok, I got a week vacation starting tomorrow to figure it out.

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    Its been a rough day for me. First I find out that Hello Kitty is NOT a cat, and now this DDR thing. Everything I know is a lie Denny

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    I have a triangle /25\ Tula 1926. Always figured it was a repair depot of some sort. Any word on this one?

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    This has to be quite a shocker for some collectors. Thank you, Mr. Chumak. I am still pondering this stamp on my 1943 Izhevsk refurb 91/30. It has the 1st GRAU arsenal stamp on the shank but also has this on top of the tang:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	808817It's the only reason that I bought the beast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    Description: Take two equal length straight lines at 90 degrees to each other and connect the ends of those two legs with the arc of a circle that uses the intersection point of the two straight lines as its center. Then, bisect the corner formed by the two straight legs with another straight line that ends at the center of the arc. As I said, it looks a bit like a drawn longbow with an arrow nocked up.
    You, Sir, must be a geometry teacher

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    Great work! This one needs a sticky

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanE View Post
    Mr. Chumak posted an update to his table on guns.ru which Ratnik generously forwarded to me.
    Thank you much for calling attention to this research. A very interesting piece of research, and a nice write-up. Mr. Chupak theorizes that there might be some systematic significance to the symbols (sqyares, triangles, etc) and a linkage or hierarchy may exist between depots / repair facilities using marks with same base symbol.

    Would you mind forwarding the guns.ru link with the updated table?

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    Awesome info guys! Thanks for posting this. I wonder how much longer it will take for the rest of the collecting community, and other online sources to catch up. Always been bad at math, so ronbo, a pic would really help! Glad Chumak was able to contribute to collectors world wide! Now we can see where our Mosins have been too!
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    Outstanding research and results. Out to blow a lot of shysters out of the water!

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    Slight update. See first post.

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    This info has gone viral!!

    Alex Jones is busting the conspiracy and doing a 24 hour dance-a-thon to raise $$ for triangle1 awareness!!

    It seems Gaza and Isreal as well as Russia and Ukraine have take 24 hour cease fires as troops return home to check their Mosin collections due to this breaking news.

    Seem the Former heads of the E.G. Stasi were involved in the counterfeit East German Mosin trade since way back and theres Interpol alerts all over Europe for their arrests..........

    here in the US, Obama offerd to make it an E German stamp by executive order, but then it was found that he had a triangle 1 stamp in his drawer and the matter was quickly coverd up and forgotten.

    Interesting that the chart shows alot of previously undecipher'd wackensmaks, kind of a Dead Sea Scroll for the Mosin and Nagant enlightened....

  42. #41

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    This information has already spread like wildfire on all of the FB milsurp pages

    1942 VKT M39 [1905]
    1944 Tikka 91/30 [1915]
    1940 Tikka M91 [1897]
    1940 Tula [SA] 91/30
    1935 Tula 91/30
    1937 Tula 91/30
    1928 5 line Ex-Dragoon
    1939 Izhevsk 91/30
    1942 Izhevsk 91/30
    1944 Izhevsk M44
    1944 K31
    Eddystone M1917 Enfield
    1943 Shirley No. 4 Mk. 1 Enfield
    1939 ERMA K98k
    1939 M1895 Nagant
    1986 CZ82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Its been a rough day for me. First I find out that Hello Kitty is NOT a cat, and now this DDR thing. Everything I know is a lie Denny
    +1

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    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Its been a rough day for me. First I find out that Hello Kitty is NOT a cat, and now this DDR thing. Everything I know is a lie Denny
    Not sure if this will help? But I think it will.


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    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    Not sure if this will help? But I think it will.

    I think I can spot the /1\ on the middle one.

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