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Thread: Chilean Navy Mausers M1895

  1. #46
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    Here is my Chilean Navy crested M1895 serial number list. Please post any additions or corrections; barrel serial numbers especially needed.

    Type crest:

    Receiver serial number:

    Barrel serial number:

    Long Rifle (29 inch barrel), Short Rifle (22 inch barrel), or Carbine (18 inch barrel):

    7mm or 7.62mm:

    Loewe or DWM:

    Purchase year, price, seller:

    Matching or mismatched:

    Any other different no prefix one to three digit serial numbers on the rifle (specify which parts):

    Ship's name, if any:

    Remarks:


    1. 15 jebber GB, LR, 7mm, Loewe, purchased from John Wall GB.

    2. 18 GunAuction.com, LR, 7mm, Loewe, sold $599 2011, matching.

    3. 28 mman GB, LR.

    4. 57 Jim Petrie GB, 7mm, Loewe, mismatched, stock marked ‘Blanco Encalada’.

    5. 98 John Wall GB, 7mm.

    0. 119 stock.

    6. 138 okrana GB, barrel s/n H2986, LR, 7.62mm, Loewe, mismatched, bolt s/n 158, stock s/n C4202, MF or ME on stock, purchased 2006 from Chilean Army, no ship name, an original s/n on barrel and a new (different) s/n on receiver.

    7. 157 Antique Arms, Inc., LR, 7mm, Loewe.

    0. 158 bolt, okrana GB.

    8. 318 2mnydgs GB, LR, 7.62mm, Loewe, bought $50 2015, mismatched, damaged stock (later replaced).

    9. 341 mauserdad GB, barrel s/n A158, Carbine, 7mm, Loewe, mismatched (confirmed as carbine, not short rifle), trigger guard A158, stock C5939, pictured in MMROTW. The old (original) barrel and trigger guard s/n help to indicate the new 341 receiver s/n was changed in Chile.

    10. 354 Mosko GB, Loewe.

    11. 370 Argentino GB, 7mm, Loewe, matching, private purchase $200 November 1999, no ship name.

    12. 393 geladen GB, barrel s/n G1236, LR, 7.62mm, Loewe, bought $500 April 2016 from YellowSled GB, mismatched, bolt E1624, DWM stock K7518. Again, an original s/n on barrel and a new (different) s/n on receiver.

    13. 428 Mosko GB, DWM, stock marked "Baquedano".

    0. 431 trigger guard.

    14. 456 llsierra GB.

    0. 478 bolt.

    15. 486 Empire Arms, LR, 7mm, DWM, sold August 2014 for $975, mismatched.

    16. ___ Gunbroker.com, DWM.

    17. ___ GunAuction.com, 7mm, sold $325 2003, matching, stock marked ‘Almirante Simpson’.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    18. C289 okrana GB, Loewe, Short Rifle, Navy crest, 7mm, no s/n on barrel, matching except safety and bolt sleeve, no stock s/n, MF or ME on stock, purchased 2006 from Chilean Army, no ship name.

    19. C8123 Mosko GB, Carbine, Navy crest, 7mm, receiver, barrel, floor plate & bolt, all match, cocking piece #24, ships name "Esmeralda", purchased 2002 for $75 from Ricky Waters GB.

    20. D8474 Joe Salter, standard Chilean crest, Navy crest marked stock.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The mix of original barrel s/n and different (new two or three digit) receiver s/n, plus both Loewe and DWM components, plus carbines and short rifles being included with the long rifles tends to indicate that the rifles were rebuilt, renumbered, and recrested with the Navy crest in Chile rather than being a small Loewe contract for new rifles.

    John Wall GB: "I have only seen a few of these rare rifles, and they have had the features: . . . All have been refurbished, restocked and reblued . . . During refurbishment, repairs were made, and old mismatched numbers on the receiver and trigger guard assembly were neatly removed and re-stamped . . ." (from post #5).

    jim7x57 GB: "Interarms (then Interarmco) imported several hundred in the early 1960s...I bought and resold 25 of them, all matching, none with ship's names stamped into the stock." (from a different thread)

    Gras bayonets were modified to fit Chilean M1895 rifles. John Wall bought a Navy rifle that came with a modified Gras bayonet. Other than that, there is no known connection between the modified Gras bayonets and Navy rifles. Some say the bayonets were for Police use.

    At the March 2008 Paulin's Bruce Stern auction, one was sold for $700+15% and another for $650+15%. One was purchased by John Wall.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilean Navy M1895 LR 5.JPG   Chilean Navy M1895 LR 8.JPG   Chilean M1895 Carbine 7.JPG   DSC04030.jpg  
    Last edited by geladen; 05-13-2016 at 10:34 PM.
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    Regards,
    Bill


    All my Mausers are here (Index is in post #1):
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  2. #47
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    "Here is my Chilean Navy crested M1895 serial number list. Please post any additions or corrections. Details like manufacturer, caliber, matching or not, and price with date would help, especially type: long rifle, short rifle, or carbine. It would also be good to know if the barrel serial number matches the receiver serial number."

    15 jebber GB, LR, 7mm, bought from John Wall GB

    Mine is Loewe, I'll have to pull it out to check for refurb / matching numbers.

    BTW, today is John Wall's birthday. Rest in Peace my friend.
    pure jebberish

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  3. #48

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    Mine (already on your list) is numbered 370. 7mm Loewe-Berlin. All matching. No ships names. No bayonet. Private Purchase, $200 in November 1999.

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  5. #49
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    jebber, thanks for the addition. Hopefully others will add their info.

    John Wall will never be replaced.
    Every post I make is made with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

    Regards,
    Bill


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  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argentino View Post
    Mine (already on your list) is numbered 370. 7mm Loewe-Berlin. All matching. No ships names. No bayonet. Private Purchase, $200 in November 1999.
    Got it Argentino, thanks. Is yours a long rifle?
    Every post I make is made with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

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  7. #51
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    To help Bill out and his request for info I took my carbine apart. It is a carbine that is identical to the one shown in Ball's 5th edition page 76. Mine is the Navy carbine shown in Ball's 5th edition page 74. It is a 7mm. All markings (proof) are Chilean. No import marks. The numbers I did find are as follow. Serial number on receiver is 341. Stock # is C5939. Barrel # is A158. Trigger guard is A158. Floor plate is 158. Bolt sleeve is #39. Safety is #39. Cant read number on bolt handle. As for the idea of a Chilean Navy put together sounds plausible to me based on this carbine parts number. I found this anchor proof on the right side of the receiver. Did not check my other non-navy Chilean Mausers to see if they had it. Just thought I would post it. Hope this helps. Ed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chile95LoweNavyCarbine-1.JPG   Chile95LoweNavyCarbine-2.JPG   Chile95LoweNavyCarbine-3.JPG   Chile95LoweNavyCarbine-4.JPG   Chile95LoweNavyCarbine-6.jpg   Chile95LoweNavyCarbine-5.jpg  

    Last edited by mauserdad; 04-12-2016 at 07:50 PM.
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  8. #52
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    I remember that someone said in a related thread that the small anchor marking is not Navy and they had seen it on several Chilean M1895 rifles.

    I would have felt a little better if it could have been established that this was a Loewe contract for 500 rifles. It is what it is and these 500 or so rifles are still not common, regardless of who stamped the crest on them.

    And it's another crest. It could be said that I collect crests with rifles attached.
    Every post I make is made with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

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    Bill


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  9. #53
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    I received my s/n 393 rifle today. The barrel s/n is G1236. That is the second one known to have a different barrel s/n.

    It looks like these were renumbered by Chile. If they were renumbered by Chile you can bet the crest was stamped by Chile also.
    Last edited by geladen; 04-14-2016 at 03:21 AM.
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  10. #54
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    Good work. I wonder if we can get others to check their barrel numbers? Just curious, where did that 500 number come from? I am also wondering if my carbine and the one reported short rifle were experiments for shortness due to shipboard confinement? Ed
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  11. #55

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    Mauser Chileno Modelo 1895, 7 x 57 mm Carbine, Sn C8123, receiver, barrel, floor plate & bolt, all match. Cocking piece #24. all other parts marked with crossed hammers, ships name "Esmeralda". No Import marks. Purchased 8-11-2002 for $75 from GB member Ricky Waters at Sumac shooting range in Cisco GA.
    Mosko

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosko View Post
    Mauser Chileno Modelo 1895, 7 x 57 mm Carbine, Sn C8123, receiver, barrel, floor plate & bolt, all match. Cocking piece #24. all other parts marked with crossed hammers, ships name "Esmeralda". No Import marks. Purchased 8-11-2002 for $75 from GB member Ricky Waters at Sumac shooting range in Cisco GA.
    Mosko, thanks for that info. Does your C8123 have a 18" or 22" barrel? And is it Loewe or DWM?

    Do you still have 354 and 428? Can you give the following info on them?

    Type crest:

    Receiver serial number:

    Barrel serial number:

    Long Rifle (29 inch barrel), Short Rifle (22 inch barrel), or Carbine (18 inch barrel):

    7mm or 7.62mm:

    Loewe or DWM:

    Purchase year, price, seller:

    Matching or mismatched:

    Any other different three digit serial numbers on the rifle:

    Ship's name, if any:

    Remarks:
    Last edited by geladen; 04-14-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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    Bill


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  13. #57
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    Ed, thanks for all your help.

    The quantity of 500 is a guess based on the high receiver number of 456 and the high bolt number of 478.

    The carbines (2 so far) and short rifle could have been experiments.

    It may have been more like: In 1925 the Chilean Army was told to transfer 500 junk rifles to the Navy. A few short rifles and carbines were included. The Navy rebuilt, renumbered, and recrested them with a Navy crest.

    Some more research on the ship names may narrow down the 1925 estimated date to something earlier. I know there is another thread about Chilean Navy rifles with more info about the ships. IIRC, one ship was sold about 1914 which would change the 1925 date to 1914 or earlier.

    I'm guessing that the rebuild program may have been rushed toward the end which would account for some rifles retaining their original receiver serial numbers. Then there is that one rifle that Joe Salter has which has an original serial number and Army crest with a navy star and anchor stock cartouche. Somewhere in my wanderings I saw another reference to one or more rifles with an Army crest and a clearly described Navy stock cartouche.

    Newcomers to this thread: See post #46.
    Last edited by geladen; 04-14-2016 at 01:19 PM.
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  14. #58
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    These 1961 American rifleman ads showed the Chilean Navy M1895 on the left side, third one down, for $49.95 while regular M1895 long rifles were $22.95 and OVS/Chilean were $44.95. The ZAR/Chilean rifles (identified only as M95 [A]) were on the right side, third one down, for $22.95.

    Where, oh where, did I leave my time machine?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails left ad.JPG   right ad.JPG  
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  15. #59
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    Bill, you brought back fond memories when I was a teen dreaming about getting a rifle from these ad's. My time machine is my mind. Have a good day. Ed
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  16. #60
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    Ed, I did more than dream about those ads. In 1960 or maybe 1961 I bought an M1895 short rifle, my first Mauser. I put it in a Herter's cheek piece stock blank which I inletted and finished, had it reblued, and put a new scope on it with bent bolt handle and aftermarket safety. And removed the front sight guard; the rear sight could still be used with see-through scope mounts but could not be flipped up because of the scope. At the time I was collecting WWII German, Japanese, and Italian weapons, uniforms, field equipment, etc. I even had an 88mm German Panzerschreck bazooka (not dewat and legal at the time) and a German issued NCO tunic with sleeve patch from the Spanish Blue Division in Russia. I thought it was OK to sporterize the Chilean because it was not German used, and of course everyone was sporterizing them at the time. That was the only military rifle I destroyed and I replaced it with another short rifle much later.

    Now that I have confessed my sin, I feel much better.

    I still have a K98K with bayonet and cleaning kit, a P08 with holster, and a very nice M40 helmet with decal from those days. All else was sold off when I went into the USAF in 1966. I also kept a postwar French occupation HSc with holster but it was stolen. I replaced it much later with one that was WaA marked.

    I remember going down to Railway Express in Corpus Christi, TX, to pick up the Panzerschreck. It was too big for parcel post.
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  17. #61
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    Bill turing a military in to a sporter was the big thing back then. I remember studying my "Williams Sight Co." catalog. Yes if we all could take back what we have sold over the years. My first Mauser was a all matching 1937 Portuguese from Flaigs gunsmiths in Penn.. I think I paid $39. I was able to replace it about 20 years back. Memory Lane.
    mauserdad
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    Pics of mine. mismatched rear sight, cleaning rod & stock not numbered. Penciled number inside handguard
    HTH
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    pure jebberish

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  19. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebber View Post
    Pics of mine. mismatched rear sight, cleaning rod & stock not numbered. Penciled number inside handguard
    HTH
    Thanks for the photos, your example is a really nice one.

    There is another thread about the MF/ME stock stamps. I'm beginning to think they are repair markings. In a case like yours where the stock is retained, it is an overstamp of a year date cartouche. When a stock was replaced, the MF/ME would be stamped on a stock having no previous cartouche.

    I suspect your barrel is a replacement which is why it got a 15 s/n matching the 15 receiver s/n. The only other two barrel s/n reports we have so far show the barrel retaining the original letter prefix s/n.

    It seems your rear sight leaf and slide were replaced with self matching first type parts, probably when the slider cracked and broke at the V notch. It does not work to put a spitzer type slide on a first type leaf because of the redesign of the slide with a half moon under the V notch. I suspect they had no spitzer leaf parts handy and used old parts they had on hand.

    Could it be that on your bolt handle the 5 is part of the original serial number and the 1 is a new stamp done by the Navy armorers?

    It is still a mystery to me how they could remove the old s/n from, say, the trigger guard and show no evidence of a different number being there before the 15 number - while leaving the nearby inspection stamp undisturbed. Maybe they had access to some unnumbered replacement parts. The receiver 15 s/n is the same story and it is even closer to the undisturbed shield firing proof mark. It may just be that the Navy armorers were highly skilled metalsmiths, over and above being able to rebuild rifles.

    As John Wall said, ". . . old mismatched numbers on the receiver and trigger guard assembly were neatly removed and re-stamped . . .". Very neatly.
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    Bill


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  20. #64
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    From another thread: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...=1#post4370633

    Actually, it may not be that the Navy got the rifles from the Army - but the evidence points to the fact that the Navy got them from some other branch of the Chilean government. There is evidence to support the idea that they did not come from Loewe/DWM to the Navy as a separate contract. If they did not come from Germany, where could the Chilean Navy have obtained M1895 rifles?

    John Wall thought the serial numbers had been changed (see post #11). He knew more about contract Mausers than anyone except perhaps a German who worked at Loewe/DWM. There is normally no reason to change a receiver serial number, no matter how many times the rifle is rebuilt.

    It is a fact that all of these rifles found with three or less digit receiver serial numbers having no prefix or suffix also have the Navy crest. You can assume the Navy crest and the three digit numbers go together.

    When I look at my Navy rifle and at photos of others, the Navy crest and receiver serial number look original; they do not look obviously scrubbed and replaced. My first thought was that the Navy rifles were a very small contract from Germany.

    The problem is that no very small contract is likely to include long rifles, short rifles, and carbines. No very small contract is likely to include both Loewe and DWM rifles.

    We have as yet only three barrel s/n reported:

    okrana, receiver s/n 138, long rifle, Loewe, 7.62mm, barrel s/n H2986
    mauserdad, receiver s/n 341, carbine, Loewe, 7mm, barrel s/n A158
    geladen, receiver s/n 393, long rifle, 7.62mm, Loewe, barrel s/n G1236

    Maybe it was necessary to remove the receiver to rebore to 7.62mm (and maybe not, I don't know yet) but there is no known reason to switch barrels between two rifles which remained in 7mm, like Mauserdad's example.

    Okrana said the Chilean Navy still has about 5,000 Mauser rifles. We do not know the type of crest or even if they are M1895, M1912, or some other model. Assuming they are Navy crested M1895 rifles, all that does is change a very small contract of 500 to a small contract of 5,000 or 5,500. The evidence from the reported rifles still points to a Chilean Navy project to rebuild, recrest, and renumber the rifles, rather than a German contract to manufacture the rifles.

    I would prefer to have the Navy rifles be a very small German contract with the crests German applied - but the overwhelming preponderance of evidence from the rifles reported so far points to a Chilean rebuild project.
    Every post I make is made with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

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    Bill


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  21. #65
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    Geladen: my best guess is that when the Government of Chile ordered the rifles, some were in the contract to be allocated and marked for the Navy.I'd have to re-read the book The Grand Illusion that deals with this matter to see if any specific mention is made re NAVY guns. Just like the Army rifles are Loewe, DWM, OVS,"C",etc. it is quite possible to have DWM use receivers on hand, theirs or LOEWE, to fill the NAVY part of the contract.It is known Chile accepted guns with the markings of another country! (O.V.S.).
    My experience with rebuilding on an arsenal scale is that everything is disassembled, bad parts are disposed of, wood is redone if needed,barrels are sent to one place to be worked on whilst blueing and other chores are done elsewhere.Then, final assembly and testing takes place with acceptance following.Hopefully.
    See US martial arms such carbines,03s,Garands,etc. and the word mixmaster comes into use.
    HTH
    Okrana

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    Generally, a small quantity of M1895 rifles made at the same time would be made by the same manufacturer, A block rifles were made by Loewe. K block rifles were made by DWM. With Mausers all things are possible and exceptions exist, but I view it as highly unlikely that Navy rifles marked in Germany with the crest would come from two different manufacturers (two different time frames). Army rifles were made by both Loewe and DWM because they were made at different times.

    The only way I can think of that Navy rifles would be crested in Germany and marked both Loewe and DWM is if the small contract just happened to be manufactured at the exact point where DWM used up the last of the Loewe marked receivers. Not very likely. Even if true, that would not account for three different barrel lengths in the same small contract.

    Maybe someone will import the 5,000 Mausers reportedly still held by the Chilean Navy and the answer will be clear. Or not.
    Last edited by geladen; 05-02-2016 at 04:44 PM.
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    Another curveball, how is a rifle like this explained:

    https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...Rifle-by-Loewe

    This is a D block Loewe with no crest but has the Anchor mark where the usually date or ME/MF stamp is located.

  24. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by okrana View Post
    My experience with rebuilding on an arsenal scale is that everything is disassembled, bad parts are disposed of, wood is redone if needed,barrels are sent to one place to be worked on whilst blueing and other chores are done elsewhere.Then, final assembly and testing takes place with acceptance following.Hopefully.
    See US martial arms such carbines,03s,Garands,etc. and the word mixmaster comes into use.
    HTH
    Okrana
    Yes, but do we know that the same procedures would apply to a Navy workshop project of rebuilding maybe 500 rifles? We need more reports of serial numbers on barrels, trigger guards, bolts, and stocks as well as receivers.

    Four are reported to be matching. I would like to see the barrel serial numbers on them.

    Also, rebuilding US rifles with interchangeable parts is one thing, while rebuilding M1895 Mauser rifles with non-interchangeable numbered parts is a different thing altogether.
    Last edited by geladen; 05-02-2016 at 07:14 PM.
    Every post I make is made with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

    Regards,
    Bill


    All my Mausers are here (Index is in post #1):
    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?144316-Mausers-Only-Mausers

    III, GOA Life





  25. #69
    geladen's Avatar
    geladen is offline Platinum Bullet Member and Curmudgeon-in-Training
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
    Another curveball, how is a rifle like this explained:

    https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...Rifle-by-Loewe

    This is a D block Loewe with no crest but has the Anchor mark where the usually date or ME/MF stamp is located.
    That is the last rifle reported in post #46. I have no explanation for it because it is the only one known with either type of receiver crest to have the Navy anchor cartouche on the stock.

    A possible explanation would be this: Some time after the 500 rifle rebuild project was completed, the Navy acquired a small batch of rifles that were in better condition than the 500 and did not need rebuilding. That small batch simply had the stock marked with an anchor; the crest and serial numbers were not changed.
    Every post I make is made with a request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

    Regards,
    Bill


    All my Mausers are here (Index is in post #1):
    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?144316-Mausers-Only-Mausers

    III, GOA Life





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