A good Mosin day - Finn-capture 1943 M38 carbine
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Thread: A good Mosin day - Finn-capture 1943 M38 carbine

  1. #1
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    Default A good Mosin day - Finn-capture 1943 M38 carbine

    Despite the dramatic decline in the number of Finn'd Mosins showing up these days, even in NC where many were sold via Rose's, once in a while one crawls out of a closet and emerges into the sunlight after probably a couple decades in obscurity.

    I've literally had dreams that mirror this experience.

    We all entertain visions of "the perfect gun shop experience". You walk into a quiet shop in a small town. On the rack is mostly a lot of hunting rifles and shotguns. But there's a Mosin on the rack, a carbine, with rod. It's obviously not a refurb. It's the only milsurp in the stack, nestled between AR-15s, lever actions and Mossberg pump shotguns. You wait patiently while the shop guy finishes business with other customers. While you wait, you examine the rifle from 8 feet away, deciphering everything you can see. You notice the tag and you can just make out the price. You instinctively know you will buy it, regardless of what you discover. You eyeball the rifle further... The appearance immediately conjures up images of a Chinese T53, but it does not quite look like a T53. Then it suddenly dawns on you that there is no bayonet assembly. You think "M38" (91/59 doesn't even come up, as the legit wear on the rifle rules that out). You do the Mosin Math... M38 + Non-refurb = .... but you don't let yourself get excited. Finally, you're handed the carbine, and you examine serial numbers, trying to look as casual as possible. Bolt, floorplate, buttplate, all matching. And then you see the small [SA]...


    Note the damage to the right side. I can see where a piece of shrapnel hit near the recoil lug. I can also see where some Finn used a knife to cut the splintered piece off cleanly back under the bolt handle.

    Bore is excellent, too. The cleaning rod nut had sand in the threads, which I was able to remove just enough of in order to let the rod thread in. Metal under the wood is covered in sand and bits of forest debris.

    Every part is Izhevsk, even the rod. I don't think it was ever disassembled since the factory, either. No import mark.

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    Last edited by bones92; 05-09-2016 at 02:38 PM.
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

  2. #2
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    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

  3. #3
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    Ooh wow! That's a nice one

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  5. #4
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    That's a very good story and a true one right here. The sand and forest debris is also the highlight of its historical value .You KNOW it was fighting someplace . That's the fun part ...well getting the carbine surely is the best part . VERY NICE !


    Sapishka

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    I've felt this same way many times in a shop. Awesome carbine Bones, all matching as well! I've never been quite this lucky, again congrats!
    Bury me in southern ground, because in southern ground I belong.

  7. #6
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    I often wish to find something neat like that one in the wild....Great story, one o these days!

    Very cool carbine & congratulations!

    Pahtu.

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    I'm probably just having a dream. Yeah. I just scrolled past a unicorn..... dreaming.

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    Sure glad you didn't buy it because of those little dings in the stock....

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    Very nice rifle and great story, well described the emotions and anticipations what rush through you when founding a nice mosin which is not yours yet, but you know it will be soon because you gotta have it. I have experienced exactly in the same way couple of times :-)
    Last edited by M-Bear; 08-05-2015 at 12:13 AM.

  11. #10
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    Bones,

    What was the walk out price?
    Looking for USS Casimir Pulaski SSBN 633 items.

    This was the most interesting conversation I was ever not a part of and I look forward to the next conversation on the topic.
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  12. #11
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    That's a good Mosin day indeed. And I'm guessing it was at a great price to boot.







  13. #12
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    Perfect story with a perfect ending. Congratulations!

  14. #13
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    I have a rule of never divulging what I pay, but the price was really good. To the shop it just looked like a beat up old Mosin with a sliver of wood missing. I am sure they paid next to nothing for it.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure I used up all my Mosin Luck for a while. You know, for at least a week or two...
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

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    Awesome story and find Bones, most of us fantasize about gunshop finds like that. I'm sure you saved her from Bubba's rath as well. From my experience, beat up Mosins in "tacticool" gun shops like the one you describe end up in Archangel stocks.

  16. #15
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    Great score, great story. Congrats

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    Great find Bones, always pays to beat the bushes.
    "The only real power comes out of a long rifle."- Joseph Stalin

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_Lord View Post
    Awesome story and find Bones, most of us fantasize about gunshop finds like that. I'm sure you saved her from Bubba's rath as well. From my experience, beat up Mosins in "tacticool" gun shops like the one you describe end up in Archangel stocks.
    But, after all, he does need a stock.

  19. #18
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    Great find and you hit those feelings on the head; been lucky enough to feel that a couple times over the years!
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

  20. #19
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    Wow! Nice find!

  21. #20
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    Great find!

  22. #21
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    Awesome!!! Man oh man, do I miss the good old days at Roses; I should have spent ALOT more money there.
    Hebrews 13:8
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  23. #22
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    You're not kidding, Doug. I got my first Enfield (1994) and first Mosin (B-barrel M91, circa 1996) at Rose's. If I only knew, I could have gone to three different locations close to where I was stationed. Who knows what kind of neat Finn (or Finn'd) rifles I could have picked up. Back then, most people turned their nose up at a Mosin Nagant.
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

  24. #23
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    Earl - great find! That is the second all matching 1943 Finn capture M38 I've seen. Flyin Brian has the same serial block as yours! Quite possibly from the same unit as serial research in the former USSR seems to suggest entire blocks of guns were issued together as the Finn captures tend to cluster. The 43 SA M38s are tough to find. This is the 4th one if my count is correct. In comparison, there are MORE 1943 M44s that I have seen, much less matching.

  25. #24
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    That one is a honey.

  26. #25
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    Fabulous rifle, just fabulous. Great story, too!
    Remember-Gun control is not about guns, it's about control.

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    Congrats on our new treasure Bones...Denny

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    Oh wow! That's a fantastic rifle! Love the character it has all over it. A great find, and a perfect way to happen on to it. Haven't made my epic gun store find yet, but this one is pretty awesome. Congrats on that one. Must have been a good small local shop deal too
    MOSIN PRIME!

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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky236 View Post
    Earl - great find! That is the second all matching 1943 Finn capture M38 I've seen. Flyin Brian has the same serial block as yours! Quite possibly from the same unit as serial research in the former USSR seems to suggest entire blocks of guns were issued together as the Finn captures tend to cluster. The 43 SA M38s are tough to find. This is the 4th one if my count is correct. In comparison, there are MORE 1943 M44s that I have seen, much less matching.
    Sparky, I saw Flyin Brian's, and I agree that there is a good chance these two carbines were part of a group allocated to a particular unit, a block of new production rifles issued to a unit preparing to go into battle. It would make sense.


    I have to admit, I wasn't really gaming for one of these. Though I won't pass up on a decent deal, I'm not actively expanding my Finn collection. I'm trying to stick to my Manna From Heaven philosophy: if it falls into my lap, great, but I'm not out searching for anything in particular these days. It's kind of fun, really. The joy of finding neat stuff, yet without the need to find anything in particular.
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones92 View Post
    Sparky, I saw Flyin Brian's, and I agree that there is a good chance these two carbines were part of a group allocated to a particular unit, a block of new production rifles issued to a unit preparing to go into battle. It would make sense.


    I have to admit, I wasn't really gaming for one of these. Though I won't pass up on a decent deal, I'm not actively expanding my Finn collection. I'm trying to stick to my Manna From Heaven philosophy: if it falls into my lap, great, but I'm not out searching for anything in particular these days. It's kind of fun, really. The joy of finding neat stuff, yet without the need to find anything in particular.
    There is some pretty strong evidence for the block idea that has been gathered. Not much on 1943 Carbines though. There are I think 3 1943 SVT finn captures that are close. Not too many opportunities for the Finns to overun a Russian unit in 43 or more likely 1944. Neat.

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    Wow, that's a beautiful rifle and a great find!! I'm glad you guys noticed the serial prefix, as I didn't even pay attention to that.

    Here is a pic of my bolt & floorplate for comparison:


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    Quote Originally Posted by bones92 View Post
    I have a rule of never divulging what I pay, but the price was really good. To the shop it just looked like a beat up old Mosin with a sliver of wood missing. I am sure they paid next to nothing for it.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure I used up all my Mosin Luck for a while. You know, for at least a week or two...
    I agree- what I pay is my business
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    Beautiful!
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    Just so you know, I drooled on every picture! What a piece of history you have there. Be sure your heirs know the details of that rifle, and what makes it unique. Just WOW!

  35. #34

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    Very nice find. Great bit of history. Congrats.

  36. #35
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    Earl, I would love to see inside your gun lockers. You must have quite the collection, by now...

    This particular "holy grail" piece (to me at least), is amazing!!
    MY FIRST TEN MOSIN NAGANTS:
    1925 Izhevsk m1891/30 Ex-Dragoon- "Katalin"
    1939 Tula m1891/30 Lam. Stock- "Irena"
    1934 Tikka m27- "Tiina-Rakel"
    1938 Tula m1891/30 Finn Captured- "Nainen Sodassa"
    1955 Type 53 Carbine- "Thu Huong"
    1944 Tikka m1891/30- "Isoäiti"
    1942 VKT m1891- "Mummo"
    1916 Tula PTG m1891 Finn'd- "Petra"
    1967 No-Maker m39- "Tuuli"
    1926-8 Bohler-Stahl m24- "Vanha Rouva"

  37. #36
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    Great find, I just can't seem to 'bump' in to rifles like this on my hunts. I really like that stock! A Finn captured M38 would fit in my collection quite well. Congrats

  38. #37
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    Very cool. Thanks for sharing.

  39. #38
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    I appreciate the kind remarks, though the reality is that it was just plain dumb luck. This was a shop I hadn't been to in a couple years, and probably won't visit again for another year or more.

    The neat thing is that this shows that there are still neat items out there "in the wild"...in closets, under beds and leaning in corners.

    The experience was, in many ways, like a trip back in time. I had generally assumed that I would not find such a neat item again, nor do I expect such now.

    I particularly like how one can tell what happened to the stock... the jagged, darkened damage from shrapnel (grenade, perhaps?) And where a knife cut to remove the splintered piece. It doesn't affect the feel of the rifle, as the splinter was a diagonal piece, and the wood still retains almost the original wood-line. It's mainly the shoulder of the flat piece along the top of the wood-line.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by bones92; 08-06-2015 at 09:18 AM.
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

  40. #39
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    Wow!
    Sobald der Pfennig im Kasten klingt, die Seele aus dem Fegfeuer springt!

  41. #40
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    Outstanding.

  42. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones92 View Post
    I appreciate the kind remarks, though the reality is that it was just plain dumb luck. This was a shop I hadn't been to in a couple years, and probably won't visit again for another year or more.

    The neat thing is that this shows that there are still neat items out there "in the wild"...in closets, under beds and leaning in corners.

    The experience was, in many ways, like a trip back in time. I had generally assumed that I would not find such a neat item again, nor do I expect such now.

    I particularly like how one can tell what happened to the stock... the jagged, darkened damage from shrapnel (grenade, perhaps?) And where a knife cut to remove the splintered piece. It doesn't affect the feel of the rifle, as the splinter was a diagonal piece, and the wood still retains almost the original wood-line. It's mainly the shoulder of the flat piece along the top of the wood-line.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I wonder if that damage happened when the Russian was holding that rifle, and the Finn picked it up and cut the wood away? Just speculating. Nice find!!

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    I agree- what I pay is my business
    Most anyone who is serious about this keeps prices to themselves as they should and frankly I think openly asking shows poor taste. Congrats Bones! Oh and at least keep looking for awhile as you are on a roll! Think Positive! Congrats! Bill
    zeebill live from the hills of West Virginia!

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    Bill, I seem to have better luck when I'm NOT looking. ..
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

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    Just so you know, I just nailed a nice M38, the other day, in a Model 38 stock for a nice price. Now you have gone and ruined it. I will probably break it down and sell it for parts after this purchase of yours.

  46. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallased View Post
    Just so you know, I just nailed a nice M38, the other day, in a Model 38 stock for a nice price. Now you have gone and ruined it. I will probably break it down and sell it for parts after this purchase of yours.
    Hey, I'm just glad I could help.
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

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