7.65X53 Sizer Die Problem

[Burrhead56]

I purchased a set of 7.65X53 Dies for my 1891 Mauser. The dies are Lee manufactured and when sizing cases the sized case will not chamber in the rifle. I have the sizer setup correctly with a 1/4 turn beyond the point of the shell holder contacting the die. It appears the case is hitting in the chamber at the corner of the shoulder and the neck.
I've e-mailed Lee about this problem but haven't heard back from them. Any ideas that would help?
Thanks

[Iantiler]

Are you trying to form another brass to 7.65x53? I tried to form 7.65x53 from .30-06 brass using Lee dies, NEVER got them to chamber. Bought a set of Lyman dies and formed several hundred with no problems.
If I were to make a guess as to the problem I'd say the dies.

[The Great Billdildoe]

I had this very problem with 7,65 and 6,5 carcano dies made by RCBS , LEE and that plac ein Mt Vernon OH. RCBS at least modified the dies in some manner and they worked OK after that. I always full sized my cases as I had more than a couple rifles in those calibers when I loaded for them... neck sizing lead to alot of chambering problems as it was a real hassle to load specific cases for alot of rifles of the same caliber.

[jonk]

I have had that problem as well with Lee dies and reformed brass; but works fine with Norma. Go figure.

I WAS able to get them to chamber by neck turning them (chopped 06 brass).

[Fritz1255]

I have a fair bit of experience forming brass. The newly formed brass springs back after being full-length sized the normal way, and will often not chamber. You may need to remove the decapper, substitute a flat piece of metal for the shellholder, and push the brass into the sizing die further than normal just to get it within spec. Use a punch or long bolt to tap the brass out of the sizing die from the top, since you can't pull it out with the shellholder. BTW, my Argentine rifle seems to have the tightest chamber of all, and definitely requires this procedure.

[jjk308]

You also need to anneal the brass to prevent the spring-back.

[Burrhead56]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. As for trying to make cases you are correct, I'm trying to use 30-06 once fired PMC's. I annealed them first and then sized them. Something else I tried was to use my 7.65X54 Mas sizer to set the shoulder back to where it fits the chamber. This seems to help some. But the shoulder angle is different by 1 degree. I think this may solve the problem, it worked for two cases I experimented with anyway. I plan to try this on about ten case tonight. Also I do believe the chamber is tight on the rifle also as suggested here. I've read this somewhere that the 1891 Mauser can be very tight in the chamber dimensions. Also Lee has offered to alter the die if I'll supply a couple of fired cases. If I can get them ready to go I'll give her a try this week-end. I'd didn't think neck turning would be necessary as the Hornady loading manual shows the walls to be about .015 thick on the case drawing they use.
Thanks
Burrhead56

[Iantiler]

Burrhead, sounds like you're going in the right direction..... if you can get the brass to chamber once it's fire-formed to your chamber you may not need to alter the dies. I bought a bag of 7.65x53 brass from Grafs (don't remember who made it) and the Lee dies I have will reload them just fine....good luck.

[Cheap_shot]

One of my Arg M91s has a chamber that is tight so that even Norma factory ammo chambers with a slight crush. It doesn't bother me because I don't shoot it.

The RCBS case forming die is the shizzle for making short work of case forming. These cases will chamber in the tight M91 without any resistance.

[flaco]

Apparently the 7.65x53 rifles were chambered in two editions.

I tried both Lee and Lyman sizers before an RCBS sizer finally worked.

Even then, the cases had to be cammed into the chamber.

After one firing, the cases are fire formed.

I just neck size after that.

flaco

[bxn65]

I have both a Lee and a Lyman FL die in this caliber, and neither works really well. Newly formed brass (I start with Winchester 8x57 new cases) chambers with some difficulty. After initial firing, I neck size with a 7.62x54 FL sizer w/.311 expander and the brass chambers fine thereafter. Don't use either 7.65 FL die for neck sizing as most of my rifles have generous chambers, and the 7.65 dies will work the case bodies even if set to size only half the neck.

Sure wish somebody would make a correct 7.65 FL die.

[Burrhead56]

It appears that the 7.5X54 Mas Sizer is going to work. I have 25 cases made and they all chamber, did them last night. I got them loaded tonight and if the Boss doesn't give me too much problems about skipping a few chores I may slip to the range and give them a try. If I get out I'll report on the results. I have two loads to try a cast bullet load sized to .312 with 16 grs of 2400 and a 150 gr jacketed .311 with 39 grs of IMR-4064.
Problem is I have a 24/47 I purchased last October that hasn't been fired either oh well maybe I'll try them both out.
Thanks for your Help
Burrhead56

[BobVZ]

I had the same problem with LEE dies when trying to form from .270 Win and .30-06 and even 8x57. The guy in the LEE shop told me their dies are not designed to set the shoulder back - only to size the neck and the body. They are not true FLR dies. My solution was to take a few thou at a time off the top of a shell holder till the brass would chamber (you could turn the bottom of the die to get the same effect). The other problem I had with LEE dies was the pressure relief hole drilled in the die shoulder. When I sized the case, brass got extruded into the hole and it left a nasty burr on the case shoulders.

[Fritz1255]

The pressure relief hole does leave a burr when sizing brass, but I think in general that it is a good feature. Shoulder dents are greatly reduced when doing normal resizing as compared to dies of other brands.

[JPS]

Per BobVZ's comments, with new Lee dies I always hand grind about .050" off of the mouth of the sizing die with a Dremel tool so that I can set the shoulder back where ever I want it to be when loading for any particular rifle.

When I had the time and was shooting a lot of different rifles regularly, I loaded separate lots of ammunition for each rifle I regularly took to the range. After the first loading, I could neck-size ONLY, for the life of each lot of brass. With two anneals in between, I was averaging about 12 loadings per lot of brass.

When forming 7.65x53mm, I always purchased 7x57mm Mauser brass and expanded and trimmed the necks. If you order the “large lot” brass from Midway, they offer special price breaks from time-to-time on large lots of brand new 7x57mm brass. I simply run it through my 7.65x53mm sizing die, trim to length, then run a few test cartridges that set the shoulder where I want it for the rifle I am loading for. Once the die is set properly, off you go and load 100, 200, 300, etc. i.e. however many rounds you are working on.

I trim the cases to length and then re-trim them twice more, once per each case following the two anneals I perform on each batch of cases as they age. I use very mild loads in all of the rifles that I shoot from my collection. In my opinion, since I hand-load anyway, why not take it easy on the beautiful old 100+ year old rifles that I actually shoot. If I want to fire full-house loads, I can always pull out one of a number of shooter-only rifles I have acquired over the years or any one of a number of my hunting rifles.

I generally fire jacketed bullets only, while keeping the velocities in the 2,050 to 2150 fps range relative of course, to the design and strength of the action. IMHO, it’s a good idea to keep jacketed bullets at around 2,000 fps or above.

Hope this info helps.

Warmest regards,

JPS

[Burrhead56]

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/John/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]Guys I'd like to thank all of you for your help with my sizing problems and my new (to me ) 1891 Mauser. I had her out the last two week-ends and shot about forty rounds each time. First time to fire form the brass and the second to try the neck sized cases. She has a very smooth bolt throw and trigger. I'll try and attach a target I shot to this.

[Burrhead56]

Here's the target from this past Sunday with my 1891 Mauser

[curious relic]

Looks good, Burrhead- I'm working up a load for mine, too

[Burrhead56]

I used a Speer .311 dia 150 gr SP with 38.4 grs IMR-4064, same bullet with IMR4350 44.6 grs. Thats from the Hornady Book and the test rifle was a 1891.