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Thread: Belgian M 1935 7.65mm mauser, how scarce?

  1. #1
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    Default Belgian M 1935 7.65mm mauser, how scarce?

    I ran across one of these, all matched, 90%+ black finish, nice stock and bore. It has the
    same bbl bands and handguard as the89/36. I can't remember ever seeing many of these
    around the shows. Any idea how scarce they are? Value? No, I'm not selling it, just curious.

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    I asked the same question ~ 2-3 years ago. Answer given at that time was ~$250-$400 depending on condition. Yours got the crown over the fancy L, or is it a MANUFACTURE DE ARMS DEL'ETAT on the barrel? Mine's the latter.

    SlimTim
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
    I asked the same question ~ 2-3 years ago. Answer given at that time was ~$250-$400 depending on condition. Yours got the crown over the fancy L, or is it a MANUFACTURE DE ARMS DEL'ETAT on the barrel? Mine's the latter.

    SlimTim
    Crown over fancy L on mine.

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    Sweet!

    Now, while we're waiting for John Wall or another expert to show up, how about pics?

    SlimTim
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    Default Belgian M 1935 7.65mm mauser, how scarce?

    I bought one about a year ago for $220. Wasn't sure what it was when I bought it, but found it listed in Ball's MMROTW 3rd Edition.

    Here's some photos of mine:












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    I think scarce is a good word for them, maybe not quite rare, but not often seen. I'd say $400 would be a fair estimate.

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    FYI fany L and crown means King Leopold from Belgium of course-

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
    Sweet!

    Now, while we're waiting for John Wall or another expert to show up, how about pics?

    SlimTim
    I'm not very good at taking pics, mine looks just like the one shown except better condition,
    has cleaning rod, and King Leopold's crest on chamber. It should be better condition, I paid
    rather more for it.

  9. #9
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    John Wall is offline Diamond Member with Oak Leaves and Swords
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    Quote Originally Posted by royke View Post
    I ran across one of these, all matched, 90%+ black finish, nice stock and bore. It has the
    same bbl bands and handguard as the89/36. I can't remember ever seeing many of these
    around the shows. Any idea how scarce they are? Value? No, I'm not selling it, just curious.
    Hi Royke,
    As near as I have been able to tell from serial number research over the past fiver years, there may have been as many as 77,000 Mle 1935's made. The rifle made by MAE was the first produced. I have records of serial numbers from around 4300 up to the 55,000 range. MAE Mle 1935's were all built up from German Gewehr 98 rifles. Their stock cartouches should all be dated "1935", the first year of production.

    Production of the Mle 1935 made by FN apparently did not start until after the start of WW II in 1940. Since Belgium was overrun by the German Army in 1940, not many FN Mle 1935's seem to have been manufactured here. The FN rifle is distinguished by its large round stock cartouche containing the letter “L” for King Leopold and the year date “1940”. As was pointed out, the receiver crest is a crown over a large cursive letter “L”. I have had least 10 FN 35's reported in the serial number range of 69,000 through the 77,000.

    Unfortunately, I have not had any Mle 1935's reported between the 55,000 and 69,000 range, so I am not sure where the MAE rifles end and the FN's begin. If any one has one in this range, I would appreciate it if you could post the number or send it to me in a private message.

    When I updated the Belgian FN section of Bob Ball's "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" last year, I found that the notes I had on the10 Mle 1935's indicated that most had a black enamel paint finish on all metal except for the bolt. In keeping with the Belgian custom, the stock roundel on FN–made Mle 1935’s contains only one date, 1940, when production at FN started up. Other common features noticed were: Stocks are numbered on the exterior, just under the bolt release. The side rail is marked: FAB. NAT. D’ARMES DE GUERRE, HERSTAL BELGIQUE in an Arial-like font without serifs, and the rear sight leaf 's numerals are graduated from 100 to 1900 meters. Barrel, receiver and bolts are all stamped with a small six-sided figure containing the small letter “c”.

    Two reported Mle 1935's had been altered to use the Wehrmacht's Sg. 84/98 bayonet, the normal issue bayo with the Kar 98k. These rifles are recognised by their bayonet bar which has not one but two notches, one on either side of the bayonet bar. The second notch allows the attachment of the German 84/98. Generally speaking, most Mle 1935 rifles are found without slings or cleaning rods, and the black enamel finish is often found badly scratched away. We do not know this conclusively from documentation, but many collectors believe that the second bayonet notch indicates an Mle 1935 which was reissued to German forces during WW II. I know that on my double notch Mle 1935, the 84/98 bayonet fits perfectly

    Regarding scarcity, the Mle 1935 is an uncommon rifle, but they are certainly not rare....unless you are looking for a matching rifle in top condition. It took me 3-4 years of looking to find my first Mle 1935 rifle, but then more showed up quickly and by chance and I now have four, all within 15 months. The rifles are: 1) an MAE, 2) an FN with a standard single notch bayonet bar, 3) an FN with a double notch bayonet bar, and 4) a rifle without a stock cartouche which has a phosphate or parkerized type finish. (I'm not sure whether this finish in genuine or not.) At any rate, I've never seen one in NRA VG or better. In my experience, decent matching rifles can go at anywhere from $350 to $750 depending on seller, condition and venue. As such, they are normally highly undervalued (especially the FN-made guns) given their WW II history and the apparently low number of surviving guns.
    Best Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 01-27-2008 at 02:35 PM.

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    John, my FN, L marked rifle is in the 76000 serial # range. It has the cleaning rod and all serials match. I would say it has somewhere close to 90% of its original black finish and really nice wood with a few very minor marks. The bore shows no wear whatsoever and the bolt face appears new condition. The only metal parts which are not finished black are the bolt, in the white, the rear sight part with the range graduations, which looks
    lightly greenish/parkerized? and the fireblued? spring for the bolt stop. It does not have the double bayonet cut.
    Last edited by royke; 09-29-2007 at 01:14 AM.

  11. #11
    Dr. Johnny Fever Guest

    Thumbs up

    I have yet to find a good one available for sale (or a bad one, for that matter), and I've been looking for almost 8 years. From my perspective, you're lucky - congrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever View Post
    I have yet to find a good one available for sale (or a bad one, for that matter), and I've been looking for almost 8 years. From my perspective, you're lucky - congrats.
    This is the first one I have found, I wasn't looking hard for as long as you, but it was different enough that I would have noticed one. In the last few years I had come to realize my World War I/II Belgian Mauser shortage and was really looking. It was not priced cheaply,
    but this one didn't need to be to get my interest and money. Good luck in your quest.
    A nice 1889, and the handguard and front barrel band for my 89/36,would have me feeling pretty good about Belgium. I hope you find a nice 1935 soon. Who knows, the next table
    might have one sitting on it simply crying out to go home with you.....

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