Simo Hayha's rifle

[Peter Maenner]

Greetings everyone,

I'm trying to get some solid information about Simo Hayha, but don't know where to look. There's plenty of information on the internet, but don't know what is reliable or not. Anyway, I really like the finnish mosins, and would like to own an example of the rifle that Simo used during the Winter War. Did he use the m-28 or did he use the m-28/30? Where is some solid info on him? Thanks for your time!



Sincerely,
Pete

[bones92]

This should help: http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

[blacst]

This is probably some of the best info on this man

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

[CH]

Simo said he used m/28 but actually the rifle was either early m/28-30 or m/28 updated to early m/28-30 specs.

See the rear sights of these two rifles. The one on the left is the rifle he used in his hunts in Kollaa.

[bones92]

I wondered about that, why he would use an M28 and not M28/30. His actual rifle is on display somewhere in Finland, right?

[tuco]

I think CH is correct. Mr Hayha told me it was a M28 and I went with that in the article. As I note in the article the rifle info may or may not be correct. He used that rifle a long time ago so it could well be he had the models mixed up. I was sure not going to push the issue with the man.

Some other notes - He did seem to hint he used more than one rifle. He also told me his rifle was lost when he was wounded but there are claims this rifle is in Finland. So that is cloudy as well since he was firm in the statement he never saw his rifle after he was wounded and taken to the aid station. There are some later photos of him - long after the war - and he is shown holding a M28-30 which in the photo captions state was his rifle in the war. That info does not go with what he told me so I sort of doubt those later photos are of his rifle but it is a rifle given to him just for the photos. Mr Hayha was not young when I spoke to him but his mind was sharp.

[AWO425]

m/28 or m/28-30, we love them all and it is our duty as collectors to preserve them for the genearations to come, so the rifles can tell the stories of real heros.

My first finnish rifles was an early m/28-30, still my absolute favorite!

Chris

[Ol Duke]

Quite a few of us got his signature and got to shake the old gentleman's hand...when we went on the 2000 Finland/Russia Gunboards trip. Finnbear had a nice gift for him, can't remember if it was a bottle of Crown, Jack Daniels or Wild Turkey, but, I think it was Crown. It put a smile on his face..

Yep, just looked back at the pics of Finnbear handing him the box of Crown....I was right the first time....

[wheaty]

It was a bottle Crown Royal He had taste!!!
I was there also.

[Capt Zorro]

He said that he still took a sip now and then "to keep his eye clear".

[Annie Oakley]

This is probably some of the best info on this man

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

Wonderful to see you are back here, blacst!!!

[tuco]

He said that he still took a sip now and then "to keep his eye clear".

I had forgotten that but you are correct. It was great to be able to meet with Mr Hayha once let alone twice (as some of us did). He was really an interesting fellow and was also a nice guy. A real hero to say the least. I know when we saw him the second time he was glad to see us again. Mr Hayha mentioned the first meeting and he told us it was good to see so many return to Finland to see him. It was rather rare for him to meet with groups at that stage of his life so it was an honor that he was willing to do this twice. Very few people can state they met the man. When I did the Finland At War book his family allowed me to make use of two photos of him. Only one made it in the book but it was neat the family was willing to share with me.

[Charlie]

There are(were) apparently several pictures taken at the time of the pic posted by CH. I have a a copy of " Invasion in the Snow", by John Langdon Davis published in 1941 by John Langdon Davis, a British War Correspondent. The pic in his book shows a Person reading a citation(?) and holding a " rifle of honor" for (an unnamed Finn sic) who killed 500 Russians at close quarters, mostly with a Suomi pistol.

FWIW- it is a MN with stock disc, the best I can comment with the picture available.


No intent to dispute the CW , just passing along the book's info. Perhaps the name was not mentioned for War Time Security reasons, but I've often wondered about the Suomi pistol comment.

[Bokmal]

Finnish books from the period often state that a good amount of Simo's kills were made with the M/31 Suomi, often in single shot mode. A Suomi makes sense in a target rich environment...

[kh]

:D

[tuco]

Finnish books from the period often state that a good amount of Simo's kills were made with the M/31 Suomi, often in single shot mode. A Suomi makes sense in a target rich environment...

It is interesting as he told me the most kills he made in one day was with his rifle. I would have thought it would have been his Kp31 but he said that was not the case. Marshall Kregel (Kevos4) was with me at the time and might remember the number Simo stated as it escapes me at the moment.

[Otter]

By NO MEANS do I want ANYONE to think I dissuade Mr. Simo Häyhä's sniper score/tally...A LEGEND and PATRIOT should NEVER be offended...If he "ONLY" got...50%, 75%...or, "All" of the unfortunates that his sights fell upon...So Mote It Be...My question is, in war factual numbers are hard to verify...ESPECIALLY, in that situation-The "Winter War"-does anyone know how they were substantiated? If only in the "media" of the time?

[tuco]

Otter - I am not sure how they kept records on kills or how these were confirmed.

[JTV]

By NO MEANS do I want ANYONE to think I dissuade Mr. Simo Häyhä's sniper score/tally...A LEGEND and PATRIOT should NEVER be offended...If he "ONLY" got...50%, 75%...or, "All" of the unfortunates that his sights fell upon...So Mote It Be...My question is, in war factual numbers are hard to verify...ESPECIALLY, in that situation-The "Winter War"-does anyone know how they were substantiated? If only in the "media" of the time?

What I remember reading about this:
When the war started Simo Häyhä started sniping the Soviets and after some time his superiors heard that Simo had shot many enemies - by that time nobody had been counting them. So Simo's company commander (Lieutenant/Captain Aarne Juutilainen) decided that Simo should start marking his kills to a small book. According book "Kollaa kestää" (Kollaa Persists/Holds) other soldiers were used to verify his kills and Simo reported his kills of the day every evening to Juutilainen in the command post. I also remember reading a article according which Juutilainen ordered one of his soldiers to stay with Simo and spot the kills, so that they could be verified.

So, the kills that he recorded to his little book were verified in a way. However IMHO it is pretty much certain that at least some of the shots marked as kills probably just wounded instead of killing and some lucky Soviet might have even survived without wounding - even if Simo was obviously a spectacular shooter nobody can't succeed completely all the time. Lot of his kills were from distances as long as 450 meters, which is quite remarkable considering he was using iron sights, but also makes likely that many of the shots didn't hit the "sweet spot".

[bones92]

Wounded were probably just as welcome as kills. A wounded man takes two more to carry him off, and he still requires sustenance and added logistical support.

[tuco]

He was an amazing guy and one heck of a good shot. I was really struck with what nice person he was. On the first meeting he was very Finnish - meaning he sort of kept an eye on us to make sure we were ok (smile). In the second meeting he acted as if the group were old friends.

It is funny how our meeting him seems to have created some anger in others. When we first met him some nutcase came on the board and blasted us stating we did not really meet with Mr. Hayha – that we were making it all up. Oh well….. I guess he just did not like the fact Mr. Hayha took the time to meet with a bunch of crazy North American collectors. I have also noticed that since the second meeting a few other people seem to want to attack us. It is very odd to me and I am not sure as to why this would upset people. Mr. Hayha was kind enough to meet with us and tell us of his life. He also enjoyed this as I could really tell in the second meeting that he had a blast seeing us again. I was at his table and he asked me through a translator how many in the group there had seen him last time. I told him it was about 30% or so and that really seemed to please him. When I did the articles on the site these were done to share what he told us as I assumed it would be of interest. I uploaded a video of the second meeting to YouTube and it has gotten over 17,500 views. Again that was done to share a bit of history with others and I am just shocked at the reaction seen by some. I can only assume these people are either jealous that they did not get the chance to meet the man or they have some other personal issues. I even read the other day some joker attacking us for giving Simo a bottle of Crown Royal as a gift…….. It was a gift that he himself asked for so how that is a problem is beyond me. Oh well… Such is life I guess as there is always someone out there in need of a lobotomy. After he died his family gave me a photo taken at his last birthday party, stating they wanted me to have this. I have never posted the photo and I am not sure if I ever will, as the photo was really a personal gift more than anything else. Maybe I will one day as in some regards I would love to share it. He was just a nice guy that told me all he did was "his duty". When he passed Finland and the world lost a hero. As my good friend Wayne Fox told me - meeting Simo was like taking part in history. It gives me chills to this day.

[bones92]

Tuco,

I, for one, am very jealous that I didn't get to meet him, too. But my only complaint is that there isn't even more content posted about your meetings with him.

Some people just aren't happy no matter what you do. And anyone who gets their knickers in a knot over bringing Mr. Hayha a bottle of whisky probably doesn't understand a lot about Finnish culture, anyway.

I wish I could have met him, but I've discovered that I can learn a lot by listening to the voice of experience. Accordingly, I'm grateful that you have posted about your meetings with him.

[Vic]

I have to dig for some pictures but I have one of Tuco and Mr. Haya that always makes me laugh. Talk about a deer in the headlights kind of look from Tuco. Its hilarious. I'll see if I can find it. Tuco's right though. I've never said boo about the man. I have several framed photographs of he and I that he signed for me personally during those golden meetings. He was a true gentleman and was very gracious. For somebody to try and tell me what he said or did not say to me or those in the group at those meetings is rather a joke. There was a great deal of respect and still is for the man and any banter that lends a negative light to Mr. Haya is not warranted in any way by anybody for any reason.

[kirk1978]

Id really like to see more of the photos from the meetings you guys had with Mr Hayha! I also agree with bones92 I wish I could have met this fella also.

[tuco]

"For somebody to try and tell me what he said or did not say to me or those in the group at those meetings is rather a joke. There was a great deal of respect and still is for the man and any banter that lends a negative light to Mr. Haya is not warranted in any way by anybody for any reason."

Yes I agree. It is a shame that people would do such things but then again some people just can not help themselves. The articles done and information shared was to spread the news about Mr. Hayha to those that might not know much about him. To see some people turn it into something else is sick. I do not get it but then again it is hard to figure out the minds of certain types.