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Thread: German S14 Bayonet

  1. #1
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    Default German S14 Bayonet

    I'm looking to buy one but I first need info on this item. Do you guys know where there's an online reference that I can see a picture and maker details on this?

    This is an Imperial German bayonet. Do you know who would have one for sale?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by RussCollector; 05-05-2008 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #2
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    Check Ron Riede's site:

    http://www.bayonetsonline.com/

  3. #3
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    Check Carl's site for info: http://www.old-smithy.info/

    /Amsfelder

  4. #4
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    Very good references.
    Thanks

  5. #5
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    Still looking, nobody has one available at this time.

    I passed on one Ebay offering since I'm not sure yet what they should be selling for these days. What should I expect to pay?

    Thanks

  6. #6
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    EBAY is a good indicator, you may get cheaper at a fair, but a lot of people watch this and price accordingly. You should pay what you feel it is worth to you, and not bother to its "worth" in any other terms, some people put ridiculous values on things because they need it for a hole in their colelction (that includes me at times!) and mint items always fetch an amazing premium, as that is all some peopel will accept in their collections - whether by taste or because their collection is an investment primarily.
    Last edited by old-smithy; 05-10-2008 at 05:07 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussCollector View Post
    Still looking, nobody has one available at this time.
    Thanks
    I just took another look at the site I referenced above and he has three of them for sale.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by porterkids View Post
    I just took another look at the site I referenced above and he has three of them for sale.
    I'm not used to looking at these reference designations but it appeared that he skips from Model 13 to the Model 19. That's why I figured he didn't have any. I may have an email from him that staes he doesn't have one but I will check with him again.

    Thanks, keep me posted!

  9. #9
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    They're right in between the Model 1898/05 and the 1884/94 bayonets.


    German 1914 Bayonet (Ref1,No.2,page88, Ref3,ABC396,page266)

    Rarity: R2
    Made by BK. Very nice wood grips attached with screws and nice finish on the handle. Excellent blade with little staining and no sharpening. Excellent black painted metal scabbard.
    Condition: VG+


    (closeup)
    Price: $200
    Made by Samsonwerke (has been partially removed). Wood grips have staining and there is pitting on the handle. Crossguard is marked 'ATL.106'. Very nice blade has staining and no sharpening. Excellent black painted metal scabbard. Very rare to find these bayonets regimentally marked.
    Condition: VG


    (closeup) (closeup)
    Price: $225
    Made by FP (very faint). Nice wood grips attached with screws and bright nickel finish on the handle. Excellent blade with some staining and no sharpening. Excellent black painted metal scabbard.
    Condition: VG+


    (closeup)
    Price: $175

  10. #10
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    Still Looking!

  11. #11
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    The seitengewehr 1914 (S14) has been produced by :
    - BK
    - Odeon
    - FP
    - Samson werke
    - Bayard (in Liege, Belgium)
    - SD
    - Some blades are marked with a G in a circle (for Gottscho) followed by letters SM or SD.

    The bayo can be found without or with sawback, with or without flashguard.
    The scabbard is all metallic and blued or black painted.
    Regimental markings are rare on this model.

    Here's my BK 1914 :



    Fran├žois
    Last edited by oxi81; 11-04-2008 at 03:09 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussCollector View Post
    I'm not used to looking at these reference designations but it appeared that he skips from Model 13 to the Model 19. That's why I figured he didn't have any. I may have an email from him that staes he doesn't have one but I will check with him again.

    Thanks, keep me posted!


    RC, you are looking under his heading of Ersatz bayonets, #13 and #19. You need to go back up the list and look at "German 1914 Bayonet", Ron has two listed currently. One for $200 and one for $175.

  13. #13
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    I had enquired about those before and they were not available. I will try again since its been awhile and see what he says. For the most part the search is still on unless something has changed from my previous contact with him.

    Another part of the equation: If it was to fill a hole in a collection I would need to worry as much about condition but its going on a very nice rifle so I can't get something too average or less in condition.

    Thanks,
    Dave

  14. #14
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    If you just want fill a hole for cheap, I've read that the S14s were mfg from export bayonets. The very common Brazilian M1908, is such a bayonet. Just remove the muzzle ring, and hooked quillon, and voila!, instant S14.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchwarfare View Post
    If you just want fill a hole for cheap, I've read that the S14s were mfg from export bayonets. The very common Brazilian M1908, is such a bayonet. Just remove the muzzle ring, and hooked quillon, and voila!, instant S14.

    Actually its for a very expensive Mosin Nagant that was modified by DWM to accept these particular Mauser bayonets. That's the reason I need one relatively nice but plain, because the rifle is that way and it would look odd to have a bayonet in to much of an inferior condition on it for display. ...if you follow what I mean.
    Interesting suggestion though!

  16. #16
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    I understand completely. However, if modifying, you can make it look pretty much like you want. Most Brazilian '08s are in pretty good condition. I finally found an S14 that I could afford, but, it's kinda rough, as most I have seen are. Nice ones tend to be a little pricey. Would like to see some pictures of your Mosin. Sounds juicey! M.P.

  17. #17
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    You wrote:
    "Mosin Nagant that was modified by DWM to accept these particular Mauser bayonets"
    Does it have an adapter?
    You should make pics. We are very curious.
    Most 1914 I have seen have not been in a very good condition. Anyway I would pay the price to have one 1914 in a nice condition. Perhaps the global financial crisis will help you

    /Amsfelder

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussCollector View Post
    Actually its for a very expensive Mosin Nagant that was modified by DWM to accept these particular Mauser bayonets. That's the reason I need one relatively nice but plain, because the rifle is that way and it would look odd to have a bayonet in to much of an inferior condition on it for display. ...if you follow what I mean.
    Interesting suggestion though!

    Which version do you have? There is the variety with the metal sleeve and bayonet lug similar in appearance to the muzzle of the Gew88 and there is the conversion using the 98 Mauser front band and bayonet lug. It would be very interesting to see pictures, you have a scarce rifle. Keep in mind that the adaptation of the Mosin by Germany allowed the use of any of their standard bayonets, be it the S14, Sg98/05, Sg84/98 or any of the many ersatz pattern bayonets - the list goes on and on.

  19. #19
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    I'm on the road away from home so I can't post a picture just yet, maybe this weekend.
    However, its the 98 style, not the tube adapter. In WWI they modified these captured rifles to take the S14 but you are correct that many others will fit and could have been used that way after issue.
    A collector friend in Germany has documentation that the original work order specified issuing the modified Mosin Nagant with the S14. Not common knowledge and I could get buy with putting anything on it but I will keep trying to find one for now of course.

    I also just found this:
    http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/MosinNag...etsFromJPS.asp

    The top of that page and the bottom of the previous page if you go into the article shows these rifles. John didn't include (if he knows) the information regarding the issue of the S14 with 98 style conversion rifle. I will ask him and maybe he will modify the article at some point.
    Last edited by RussCollector; 11-06-2008 at 08:52 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchwarfare View Post
    I've read that the S14s were mfg from export bayonets. .
    Just wanted to post a couple of comments from Anthony Carter from his chapter on S1914 bayonets from his book, German Bayonets, Volume II. Just want to share info.

    "The origin of the following group of bayonets has long been the object of much conjecture. For many years virtually every book or article on the subject has described them as 'South American export models' but the Bavarian Archieves possess documentary evidence and blueprints that prove that they were manufactured in late 1914 and 1915 to fill the demand of the German armies for one million extra bayonets. The orders were placed in late October and early November 1914 with many firms who had not previously manufactured bayonets. . . Although the S1914 were not South American export bayonets as so often has been claimed, one type, the Brasilian Model 1908, was modified and used by the Bavarians.

    They were modified as you suggest. But they were not an S1914.

    Seitengewehr 1914 (Greek blade) was made out of Greek Model 1903 bayonets manufactured by Simson & Co., Suhl, but were rehilted to fit the Gew 98. The bayonets were from a pre-war contract that was not finished by the outbreak of the war. These went to the Bavarians also.

    I own one S14, a Bayard (Liege, Belgium). One of my favorites. The scabbard is an E.S. #3 ersatz steel, ribbed scabbard, it mimics the appearance of a leather scabbards. Here is a link to pics of it: http://groups.msn.com/CommissionRifl...14.msnw?Page=1
    Last edited by wyliecoyote; 11-07-2008 at 07:37 PM.

  21. #21
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    Try ebayonet.com.
    Otto generally has one or two of the S14s.

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