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Thread: lorenz bullet dimensions
06-02-2008, 06:07 PM #1
lorenz bullet dimensions
Can anyone add the rest of the dimensions to the attached illustrations of the Lorenz-Kompressionsgeschoss so that we can create a CAD drawing ultimately for making a bullet mould.
Guy & Leonard A-R-West
06-11-2008, 08:20 PM #2
I found this. Still looking...
British Wilkinson and Austrian Lorenz designed a compression bullet in early 1850s. Austria and many German states adopted 13.9 mm rifles since 1854. Deep "cannelures" around the bullet shank were not "grease grooves", because bullets were paper patched. British Pritchett bullet was actually a smooth-sided variation of Wilkinson bullet. It was noted that the "cannelures" were not needed at all if the bullet is of almost pure (soft) lead and point of it is heavy.
British standard caliber was .477 since 1853. Standard bullet of Enfield rifle was, however, a Minié projectile with a wooden "culot", shaped like a truncated cone. Bullets of the Snider breech-loaders had culots of clay and shellack mixture or the baked clay and usually the hollow point plugged with a wood peg or "overspun" hollow point cavity. Soft and heavy bullets made severe bone fractures by hits on the limbs, but the 13.9 mm Lorenz bullets produced more severe injuries in the soft "wet" tissue, because of their higher striking velocity. "Explosion-like" injuries were noted during American Civil War. Especially Confederate troops had Lorenz rifles and ammo, imported from Austria.
06-11-2008, 08:38 PM #3
Came across this: And here is the individual picture of the Lorenz. Diameter .538, Length 1.000.
However - no picture was present.
06-11-2008, 08:47 PM #4
And this: The original Lorenz round was not a Minie ball at all, but the British designed Wilkinson solid base bullet. There were two variants of the Wilkinson, the later version having a slightly convex base. Unlike the Minie design, which relied on gas from the powder explosion to expand the bullet’s hollow base out into the rifling, the Wilkinson featured two deep grooves, which, on preliminary inspection, appear to be lubrication grooves. They are not, as the Wilkinson was patched with lubricated paper. The grooves allowed the bullet to expand by collapsing in upon itself from the shock of firing. The .54 Austrian bullet was nominally .537 in diameter weighed 450 grains and was loaded in front of a charge of 62 grains of musket powder. Wilkinson slugs in .537, .540 and .568 diameter, for .54 and .58 caliber guns, have been found on Civil War battlefields. Whether they were imported with Lorenz rifle-muskets or manufactured in this country is, at present, unknown.
Was here: http://www.washingtonbluerifles.com/bilbylorenz.htm
07-13-2008, 07:04 PM #5Member
- Join Date
- Dec 1969
- Fairfax, VA
The Austro-Hungarian Army specified bore diameter of the Model 1854 infantry rifle and Jaeger rifle was .547 inches. The diameter of the Lorenz/Wilkinson compression bullet was .545 inches. The length was 1 inch. Weight was 450 grains. The base was flat, unlike the Minie bullet design. The Austrians used the greased paper wrapper of the bullet to take up windage in bores that were more than .547 inches. Powder charge was 62 grains of musket powder. What you want, I'm sure, are the angles and measurements for the two compression wedges at the base of the bullet, and the curve of the nose, which unfortunately I cannot provide you.
Greg Edington in the United States has reproduced several designs of the Austrian Lorenz/Wilkinson bullet and manufactured moulds for .540 and .580 caliber firearms. I have used bullets from his moulds in American Civil War era firearms with great success in North-South Skrimish Association (N-SSA) competition. He has not manufactured "oversize" moulds necessary to fit original Lorenz arms in .55 caliber, however.
Go to the N-SSA web page and search for "Wilkinson" bullets. There is a great deal of information there. I would suggest that you contact Greg. He is very knowledgeable, and may be willing to provide you with the detailed measurements that you need. Please tell him that I suggested that you contact him.
The Lorenz/Wilkinson bullets in .540 and .580 caliber size down very well when lubricated and pushed through a sizing die. I would suggest that when/if you make your mould, you make it in .550 inch diameter to accommodate slightly oversized Lorenz barrels. The Wilkinson type bullet made be easily sized to .549, .548, .547, .546, or .545 inches.
A cheaper, but less original solution, is to use the Pedersoli .548 inch Minie bullet mould. It works very well in my original Model 1854 Jaeger rifle.
If you can get the information you need, and manufacture a mould sized for the original .55 caliber Lorenz arms, I might be interested in purchasing one from you.