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  1. #1
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    Default Who makes the best AR /M4 type rifles?

    I am interested in getting an ar 15, likley a carbine. What the lowdown on DPMS,Bushmaster,Stag, Olimpic ect.

  2. #2
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    I've had a colt sp1, 20" hbar Rock river, M4 Bushmaster, and M4 Stag. I like them all if, I had to rate them I would go 1. Rock River 2. Bushmaster and a tie for third between Colt and Stag. Things I've had problems with 1. Rock River didn't like wolf ammo until I changed the extractor then no problems. 2. Stag and Rock River the take down pins are really tight. 3. The colts buffer spring would always make a boing boing sound when fired. It made the gun sound cheap. Bushmaster I've had zero problems with. The Rock River and Stag I built from parts kits (all factory parts) and saved about $200 on the purchase price. The Bushmaster and Colt I purchased as complete guns. They are all very accurate when fired.
    Last edited by ofd291; 06-07-2008 at 08:40 AM.
    USS Leahy CG-16 83-86
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  3. #3
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    "Best" in terms of what?

    All of the brands you mention are excellent, and I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of them. You didn't mention DoubleStar, they are great, as well.


    "Best" in terms of overall quality and resale value: Colt or Rock River Arms

    "Best" in terms of value for the money spent: Build a Sherluk Marketing Kit on a DoubleStar lower.

    Brands to avoid: Hesse & Blackthorne
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
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  4. #4
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    Knight in Florida makes the best build AR-15 rifle, normally they are too busy filling military orders to release any to the public. If you're not going to swap out uppers on your gun, then RockRiver is my next choice. Their stuff is made to fit tight. Remington and Bushmaster are the same people, and is owned by the same company that controls DPMS. Stag and Smith&Wesson are basically the same with a different name. Sabre makes good stuff, Olympic makes crap that doesn't interchange that well.
    Armalite and Eagle are very good too..

    A AR is just a collection of parts made by different people, you get what you pay for. There are good, very good and great parts and that is what makes up the price of the rifle.

    Only some many companies in the United States can make upper and lower receivers and they only thing that is different is the name that is stamped on the side. Wilson makes barrels for tons of people.

    I might suggest you order a "matched" upper and lower set from Rockriver and build you're own gun, go to Mapul and order your magazines and stock, Bushmaster for your barrel and flash hider and DPMS for anything else you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by mauser202 View Post
    I am interested in getting an ar 15, likley a carbine. What the lowdown on DPMS,Bushmaster,Stag, Olimpic ect.

  5. #5
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    You can get rid of the "boing" sound my applying a heavy coat of gun grease to the recoil spring. As far as the Wolf ammo goes, what did you expect when you are shooting coated cases in a AR, coated cases were designed for soviet weapons with oversized chambers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ofd291 View Post
    I've had a colt sp1, 20" hbar Rock river, M4 Bushmaster, and M4 Stag. I like them all if, I had to rate them I would go 1. Rock River 2. Bushmaster and a tie for third between Colt and Stag. Things I've had problems with 1. Rock River didn't like wolf ammo until I changed the extractor then no problems. 2. Stag and Rock River the take down pins are really tight. 3. The colts buffer spring would always make a boing boing sound when fired. It made the gun sound cheap. Bushmaster I've had zero problems with. The Rock River and Stag I built from parts kits (all factory parts) and saved about $200 on the purchase price. The Bushmaster and Colt I purchased as complete guns. They are all very accurate when fired.

  6. #6
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    Get a WOO.

  7. #7
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    OK, so what's the best M4-type out of the box? I just want a gun that works and shoots straight without a bunch of gunsmithing. I have a Colt SP-1, and will try the grease trick, as that pogo stick sound really bugs me. It comes right through the muffs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regis Rex View Post
    OK, so what's the best M4-type out of the box? I just want a gun that works and shoots straight without a bunch of gunsmithing. I have a Colt SP-1, and will try the grease trick, as that pogo stick sound really bugs me. It comes right through the muffs.
    In my personal experience I'd have to go with a RRA, as they are hard to beat in every aspect. I've bought several RRA AR rifles from Legal Transfers, and they have THE best price I've been able to find. However, if you have the money I'd go with some of the new breed AR's that have a gas piston, and need NO lubrication on the bolt/receiver as the lubrication is actually bonded/impregnated to the parts. JMHO.
    Michael

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the imput guys, I will be looking at a gun show the end of this month for one.

    Highest, who makes the rifles with a gas piston?

  10. #10
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    Rock River Arms, gotcha. Thanks!

  11. #11
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    The gas piston is a wate of money. They claim that it doesn't get as dirty, big deal! None of us are hiking in a iraqi sandbox and have to worry about such things. You will spend a few hundred dollars more jut so you can save a little time cleaning the rifle and forget about a chrome lined bore, a non chrome bore will group tighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by mauser202 View Post
    Thanks for the imput guys, I will be looking at a gun show the end of this month for one.

    Highest, who makes the rifles with a gas piston?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauser202 View Post
    Thanks for the imput guys, I will be looking at a gun show the end of this month for one.

    Highest, who makes the rifles with a gas piston?
    Check this out http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm should help. As noted by others, it also depends on what you want to do with the rifle. For just plinking just about any AR will provide you with very decent accuracy, with good ammo. If you're out playing in the "sandbox", then that's a totally different deal. Personally, I don't like having to clean out all the crap in the receiver/bolt/chamber area that a gas impingement, or delayed roller blow back system deposits in those areas of the rifle. JMO. BTW, I clean my rifles after each shoot, so I'm not lazy, or slack in that department, I just like not having all that crap deposited in the receiver area of the rifle. BTW, I concur with Ken on the non-chrome lined barrel, in normal civie usage. I personally believe a non-chrome lined barrel is more accurate than a chromed one, again just my personal experience. A chrome barrel would be more advantageous in the "sandbox", IMO. Hope this helps, and let us know what you end up with.
    Michael
    Last edited by highestangel; 06-08-2008 at 12:29 AM.

  13. #13
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    Thumbs up Mid-length .

    FWIW:
    Unless owning a true M4 clone/look-alike is important to you , a mid-length gas system and a 16 inch barrel offer some real advantages over the shorter M4 system:

    Longer sight radius.

    Softer function & longer dwell time make for improved reliablity , better extraction and less parts wear and breakage.

    More forgiving of non-USGI ammo.

    More room for the forward hand.

    A flat top is the only way to go , IMO. Mounting optics on the carry handle is just a PITA.
    A decent folding BUIS , rather than a removable carry handle , is very flexible. The BUIS just folds out of way when using many optics.

    Hope this helps.

  14. #14
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    Bushmaster IMO.
    Ike
    "Hope is not a strategy"
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  15. #15
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    Campperrykid, What is a folding BUIS?
    Thanks

  16. #16
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    Thumbs up

    What is BUIS anyway?
    BUIS, or Back Up Iron Sights, come in many configurations. The purpose of a BUIS sytem is to give the shooter the ability to accurately aim the rifle if the primary optic fails.

    What types are available?
    Two types are available, flip up and fixed. It is possible to combine the two systems and use a flip up in the rear and a fixed FSB (front sight base) or vise versa.

  17. #17
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    A chrome-lined barrel cleans faster and lasts a lot longer; there's a reason the gubmint uses 'em. Colt and Bushmaster have the best barrels and of the two, in terms of bang for the buck, I'd pick Bushmaster. I agree that a flat top receiver is nice for optics but the detacheable carry handle with A2 sights are more durable than any back up iron sight (in addition to being less expensive and looking more "correct"). Make sure to master the iron sights before going to optics, and IMO if you're only shooting at 100yds don't even bother with optics.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides..From "Commonplace Book" by Thomas Jefferson.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG-70 View Post
    A chrome-lined barrel cleans faster and lasts a lot longer; there's a reason the gubmint uses 'em. Colt and Bushmaster have the best barrels and of the two, in terms of bang for the buck, I'd pick Bushmaster. I agree that a flat top receiver is nice for optics but the detacheable carry handle with A2 sights are more durable than any back up iron sight (in addition to being less expensive and looking more "correct"). Make sure to master the iron sights before going to optics, and IMO if you're only shooting at 100yds don't even bother with optics.
    Just curious as to why you think "Colt and Bushmaster have the best barrels"? I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, I just would like to know the reasoning behind that statement.
    Michael

  19. #19
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    I don't know whether or not one can easily obtain an FN milspec barrel, but Colt and Bushmaster are pretty easy to find and not overly expensive. My reason for liking the chrome-lining, is that I assume it better withstands the added abuse in friction and temperature that come with FA rates of fire, and therefore should last a good deal in semi-auto. It can't adversely affect accuracy that much, otherwise the military wouldn't use it, meaning, there are probably more pros than cons. Since the price difference isn't that big, and since I'm not competing (non-chrome-lined are supposedly more accurate; I had an Olympic, stainless HB that was simply amazing), then why not? Some good info. on barrels here: http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR1...barrelfaq.msnw

    Cheers
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides..From "Commonplace Book" by Thomas Jefferson.

  20. #20
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    You will get brands from everywhere on this because everyone has had both good and bad experiences with everything available. As with any machine, problems can arise with even the best parts and care when assembling them. Due to its modular construction, the AR15 seems to have more parts available for it from more sources than any other weapons system. This makes it really hard to even find a consensus on what parts are better than others. If you really want to be confused start reading AR15.com! Of the ones you mentioned in your original post, Olympic seems to have the worst reputation with posters on the net. I had one that never gave me any problems and shot very well, but some others have had problems. I had two Bushmasters that worked perfectly, same with DPMS, Colt, Rock River, and several others that I assembled with different lowers and other parts that work perfectly too. Stag seems to get great reviews on the net and in the gun press, but I have never owned one. I build anything I shoot now. If you are looking for a carbine that works out of the box I would probably stick with one of the major manufacturers that are available in your area, that will stand behind what they build and will give good customer service. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, and DPMS are all readily available in the area I live in and seem to have a good reputation here for fixing any problems that MIGHT come up.

  21. #21
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    LMT and Colt seem to get the highest praises from most for out-of-the-box quality and follow close to TDP. Although I don't drink the Kool-Aid, Colt is the maker of the M4. Many make great out-of-the-box good ARs. As mentioned, look over at ar15.com and m4carbine.net and you will get all the info you want and more.

  22. #22
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    Eyesight reality check.

    FWIW:
    Try out an M4 carbine length rig and then a mid-length to check if your eyes can get a good focus on the front sight.

    There was a time when I could get a good focus with an M4 . Those days are over and they won't be coming back. Even a middie is getting to be a little tougher , especially at speed .

    Then again , there is nothing faster than an Aimpoint . Nothing. Even with young eyes. Which is why the Services have grabbed them by the 10's of 1,000's.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by campperrykid View Post
    FWIW:
    Try out an M4 carbine length rig and then a mid-length to check if your eyes can get a good focus on the front sight.

    There was a time when I could get a good focus with an M4 . Those days are over and they won't be coming back. Even a middie is getting to be a little tougher , especially at speed .

    Then again , there is nothing faster than an Aimpoint . Nothing. Even with young eyes. Which is why the Services have grabbed them by the 10's of 1,000's.
    How about an eotec as a sight?

  24. #24
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    Eotech is a very good sight and has a loyal following. Depending on your use, you might find Aimpoint to be an even better choice.

    As to manufacturers, my Colts have been great, no problems at all.
    Olympic Arms gets bad mouthed quite a bit, but I have had 2 Oly lowers, and no problems whatsoever,

    I have had nothing but good experience with CMMG uppers too

    Thousands of rounds downrange

  25. #25
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    I have very little EoTech experience.
    An Aimpoint C3 seems to be at the sweet spot for civilian use. Battery life measured in years , very tough & simple , less money than the scuba and night vision rated models.
    Around $350 , delivered, ( with C&R discount) from Midway USA.
    Check out the Optics section on m4carbine.net , lots of good info . Run a search for 'Aimpoint chart' , a great little buyers guide.
    YMMV

  26. #26
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    i have an oly lower thats very picky about mags..only takes ok brand correctly....all others are very very tight..good thing i was able to get about 15 ok brand mags....out of my 4 ar type rifles this is the only one that has this occur..my dpms and 2 colts take any mag and work quite well

  27. #27
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    Best deal in the world is a Bushmaster DCM-XR purchased for a junior shooter for $800 direct from BM. A-2 or A-3 configurations available. First time I got to shoot it, 5 rounds and the worst was a 9 on an SR-1 target at 100 and I am basically blind. (This is my son shooting it and he does not shoot 9s ever, after breaking this gun in. Use heavier loads in the 70+ gr range as it is a 1:8 twist. We are still learning this gun, but it has great potential for sub-MOA 5 round groups.

    http://www.bushmaster.com/DCMXRCoupon.pdf

    <edit> What is your proposed use for the rifle? If you want to shoot for accuracy, think a competition model such as this. The M-4 has no place for shooting well in competition, IMHO, and is an urban combat rifle at best for use in the sandbox, although a good AK would be better for this purpose.

    Last edited by Shyquestor; 06-13-2008 at 11:33 PM.
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  28. #28
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    Noveske and LMT are the best.

  29. #29
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    I want it for a shtf gun, will do lots of plinking with it to, out to 100yds.
    I like the compactness of an m4 carbine, and I like the way they feel and look.

    How is a Colt 6920? Arev they worth the price? Who is LMT I have never heard of them?

  30. #30
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    i bought a colt 6920....just to put away..shot 100 rds thru it and found out my parts guns shot every bit as well as the colt did

  31. #31
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    im fond of my DPMS rifles , fairly standard version with BUIS rear cowitnessed ,



    and the stag lower/del tone upper i put together for my son to shoot ,
    it has the extra rails as he likes the blings , is a perfectly functional setup that does the job at a reasonable investment , it has one of the multi-reticle red dot sights on it , and removable carry handle for iorns

  32. #32
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    Just got an Oly 16" "M4 " for 700 bucks;and like all the other Olys I have seen ,works just fine.The Rock River and Colts are nice but the various kits do the job.I was ready to get a kit from model 1 but ran into this one for 7 bills and said to hell with it.

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