It is a POS.
Disclaimer: I am not normally a person who deals with weapons, and my knowledge is limited. My research on this pistol was based in part on some info gathered here and on the rest of the internet.
As part of my dad's estate, I've found what appears to be a Double action .22 cal short German hand pistol. Serial# 132515
Description of the weapon:
It appears to be made by Gerstenberger & Eberwein Manufacturer in Gussenstadt, West Germany.
Located on the left side of the barrel it has a proof mark with a Eagle and N below it., as well as Cal .22 short printed further down the barrel.
Again on the left side, stamped below the hammer, on the body of the pistol, in German and in script, is the name Gerstenberger & Eberwein and then Gussenstadt below that.
Located on the left side, by the trigger under the cylinder there is the number 67 and a symbol of an antler.
Located on the right side of the barrel it has the serial number and then stamped in English Made In Germany.
Stamped in the cylinder, in script is the word GERMANY and the serial number, and is a six shot.
The handles are white plastic, with a valor insert in the grip.
The area under the grips is hollow, and has no imprints, etchings or other markings.
That it has the ejector rod, needs cleaned and appears to have some of the "bluing" or paint rubbed off the gun and that there is some pitting on the cylinder and action.
What I think I know about this weapon:
This was apparently a cheaply made "Saturday Night Special", and was imported by the VALOR company.
That these weapons were made up until the late sixties (US before 1968) until the Gun Control Act of 1968.
based on my dad's previous warnings, the thing splits lead. He did use it as a home defense weapon.
The sheriff officer who disarmed the weapon as the coroner cleared the scene, said that he felt it was a oldie, and could be very collectible.
What I don't know:
1) Is the thing legal to posses? I cannot find ownership or registration papers. (I'm not a felon, and do not have restrictions of my rights)
2) What year this weapon was made? I think there is the number 67 and a antler, I'm going to assume this means it was made in 1967?
3) Did Gerstenberger & Eberwein really make this weapon, or was it a Rohm knockoff, or MG&E spoof? How to tell?
4) I'm basing the importer on the tag in the grip of the weapon, Is it safe to assume this, again how to tell?
5) Information on the internet suggest that this weapon is of low quality, and low in price, and that even in collector status it values under 100$, would you
agree with their appraisal?
6) If I decide to sell the weapon, what paperwork am I going to have to go thru in order do to so.. I don't deal with weapons, what I know is a result of a single hours research from the Internet. I do know that if i sell to a private party, the gun could still be registered to the estate. I'm interested in dealing thru a Licensed Fire Arm dealer to make sure that the weapon is totally out of the estates name.
Again, thank you in advance for you help! Photos are included below.
It is a POS.
Hi Gabriel, I'm no expert but your weapon certainly meets all the requirementas for a "saturday night special". It is an import (Germany on cylinder indicates this) and was sold cheap. It looks like a "liner" in the barrel which allowed for the rest of the metal to be of poor quality. $50 would probably be max value. If your Dad said that it "split" lead, he was probably referring to a lock up problem - the cylinder and barrel don't align properly when the hammer falls etc. Danger! Take it to a gunshop (I see you are in Colorado, so shouldn't be a problem to find one) and put it on consignment if they'll accept it. Good luck, Ray
PS: American made of this type usually aren't worth much either.
1. yes, it is legal as you are above 21 and not a felon.
2. made in 67
3. i think as I have owned many of these due to the fact that most end up in conviscated weapons.. they are made by differant co's ..but mosty likely the parent company switched names ..such as raven& jennings , keep changeing their names to avoid lawsuites.
4. valor,, they imported alot of these types of inexpensive pistols
5. yes, poor quality. i have sold them on auction sites for $60 or less.
6. let say you sell to a dealer..they will put down the info that it came from the estate. in this case i would want a copy of your drivers license or your dads...in co you can sell to another indivdual...however, if i do so i would get the information from them such as the drivers license....in all ...for what it is worth 20-30 at the most..i'd keep it...hope this helps..ps...I would not trust my life with it, as IJ-70 said
If I read between the lines correctly and this weapon was used for what I think it was, do the right thing and deactivate it. If it was a valuable antique, that would set up a certain conflict of principles. But that is not this case.
Lol, There are no lines to read between. I think the worse that this pistol was used for was scaring the hell out of the local skunks.
The pistol was not used my dad's passing, he had a major heart-attack and was 80. If it had been used for what you are thinking about, I would not be having this conversation about it.
I did ask the sheriff deputy, about it's deactivation, when i asked him to disarm it, and he told me that it was collectible, and that I should look into it first.
I know I'm not a weapon nut, and you'd think a sheriff's deputy would at least know more than i would. I think you know where I'm going with that one..
It can be disposed of to your benefit the next time that there is a $100 weapons buy back.
$100 is much higher than its market value.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa073101a.htmFremont County is poor, and would rely on HUD dollars to have such a program. Driving to Denver or even springs with the current gas prices would not provide a profit. I was not expecting hundreds of dollars for it. Just thought it was worth more than 30 bucks..2001 - Bush Halts HUD Gun Buyback Program
Declaring them "limited in their effectiveness as a strategy to combat violent and gun-related crimes," the Bush administration has ended the HUD gun buyback program initiated in 1999 by the Clinton administration.
Nice idea though..
Last edited by gjdunga; 06-21-2008 at 08:59 AM.
Glad to hear I was barking up the wrong tree!
Local "buybacks" may still exist (not here in Maine, we are too poor and have too many guns. Also we don't throw anything away!). DC had a gun "buyback" in 2000 for $100 a gun. Any gun. So I sold them a broken "airsoft" KG-9 toy, took my $100, went to a Maryland gun store and bought an outstanding Ortgies .32ACP for $100 (plus tax)(wrong magazne, but I found a replacement at a show -- incorrectly inside a Beretta M1935, which I bought for the magazine and sold with a replacement; man this hobby can be wierd). Most other such state and local "buyback" programs I have seen pay only $50, which was still alarming, as plenty of inexpensive milsurps at the time were available in quantifity for under $50. Very Good Condition Turk M38 Mauser rifles at the time were $41 at gun shows from a wholesaler.
So you may want to look around. More likely a pawnbroker will offer you $30 or so for it.
You are right - the hobby is wierd. I have purchased pistols to get the holster, the grips, or the magazine. And then re-sold the pistol.
Recently, I purchased a pre-war PPK that is heavily pitted but has a mint bore. (Nice carry pistol - can't hurt it.) Then purchased a set of post war grips ($40) for the pistol and put them in place of the brown pre-war grips ($200). Then moved the brown grips to another PPK I had lter acquired that had the wrong grips. At the last NGD, I picked up a replacement mag for $25 to replace the almost mint pre-war mag that came with the pistol.
II Thessalonians 3:10
I Corinthians 6:9
I realize the comment about the deputy not knowing more about an odd collectible than the average "joe" was just off the hand. But, please don't think just because law enforcement officers carry a gun that they know all the stats and prices of every fricking gun out there. They are here to protect and serve, not to hand out free gun statistics. If the deputy was not being nice to you, he could have asked you if the gun was registered to you and if not, taken it. Therefore, he was being nice.
Use the internet for that research please.
Hey, any gun is "collectible."
"A cheerful heart is good medicine."
Good luck with it..be willing to bet you will spend much more than $30 finding the pawn broker to buy it for that...as Ij70 said..pos
Last edited by BradB; 06-21-2008 at 04:50 PM.
Gjdunga---Wow arent you glad you asked!!!!!!?? Makes kinda scared to ask anything
To all who have taken offense.
When I first posted, I stated that I was a novice. In fact I know jack-squat about weapons. What I do know, amounts to a hunters education course I enjoyed when in scouts. I don't work with weapons on a day to day basis, and I don't have a membership to the NRA (Although I should).
The Sheriff Deputy was asked to disarm the weapon on behalf of the coroner, I asked the sheriff to take the weapon with him to have it destroyed. Using the term 'deactivated' was the polite term that another used here, so I stuck with it.
My problem with the Deputy, is that based on what I've learned in about an hour of searching the internet, totally contradicts what the guy said. Going to a pawnshop or a FFL to sell this weapon from what I'm reading is basically a nuisance to them, and possibly promotes someone using this weapon for stupid reasons.
The fact that the Deputy was reluctant to remove the weapon, and was using the "It's valuable" as an excuse was annoying.
FYI - I spoke with another at the SO who stated that they all have had weapon recognition training, that the first Deputy should have known that it was a 'Saturday Night Special', and not some classic Mauser or Smith & Wesson and that re-training in their department would occur. I was told that there is allot of "paperwork" with the decommissioning of a weapon at there department and this was probably the reason, not because the weapon was collectible. This is the reason I'm brow beating the Deputy.
I have the utmost respect and admiration for a person who does their job, and does it well. Who doesn't ask for big 'props', and does things to serve his community. I shun people who take shortcuts, and say's things to avoid necessary paperwork. He could have told me simply that it needed to be taken to the SO, that he didn't have the paperwork handy, he didn't..
I'm grateful for the journey, and learning about the history of the weapon. I'm also greateful for the people who have helped me here. Thank you very much, It's appericated.
To those who decided that they needed to berate someone, rather than asking why I felt that way, tells me something, and should tell you something too..
In closing; The Internet allows anyone to say anything about anyone with little recourse of thought or feeling. It's also harder to judge exactly what is being said, because the written word can be taken in so many ways.
Perhaps in the future, you will read twice, and private msg if your not sure what was meant by it..
First of all let me say that I'm sorry for your loss. You may not get more than twenty or thirty dollars for that little revolver but it might be worth much more to you as something else to remember your father by. If you just want it destroyed so it can't be used, which isn't a bad idea since it's not safe, you can cut it apart right behind the cylinder with a hack saw. No paper work required.
Regards, Alan K.
Available for Cabinet level positions, consultation on matters of foreign policy, weddings and bar-mitzvahs. Will work for gold or guns.
Please consider joining us in the safe ownership and use of firearms. We are always welcoming to those who seek to join our ranks. A good, quality, decent used .22 pistol can be purchased for well under $200 and will provide just hours of fun and enjoyment. Please consider your little revolver as an entryway into this world.
Sir, when MY dad died back in 1971, he left me a screwdriver, a homemade scriber and a Colibri lighter flint dispenser that I had played with when I was very small.
My point being that this little piece belonged to your dad, and has his mana in it, if you bleeve in that kind of thing.
Plug it and keep it, is my suggestion, and remember that whatever your dad thought of it, it is still connected directly to him.
I miss my dad every day of my life.
TFoley, that is precisely why, if asked, I would probably suggest deactivation rather than destruction. It's his choice, obviously, and he probably has many other physical remembrances of his father much richer than a cheap old revolver.
I never understood why my father was so casual with his naval souvenirs and so dismissive of his honorable service. To me they are treasured relics and sagas. But as I anticipate commission or enlistment myself next year in another Service Branch, I kind of get it; why discuss those things with someone who cannot possibly appreciate or understand them?
What ultimately happens to a cheap old revolver is of small account, but you have stirred some philosophical thoughts in this tired head. I, too would welcome this fellow to the ranks of Shooters. We aren't always such J'Accuses.