12 round hi-cap mags
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Thread: 12 round hi-cap mags

  1. #1
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    Default 12 round hi-cap mags

    Teakwood
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    1987 Posts
    Posted - 06/20/2004 : 08:32:27 AM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have 10-round double-stack mags and have posted pics of the ProMag and the Russian versions. I have never seen a legendary 12-round Russian Mak mag. My assumption has always been that they looked just like the 10-rounders. I have some indications that this is erroneous. For example, I have had a hint that the two indents on either side of the 10-rounder (near the bottom} are not present in the 12-rounder.

    Is there anyone out there that can post a pic of a real Russian 12-round mag?
    I know that Makarov.com used to sell them, but that pic is long gone from the sight.

    Below is a pic of a Russian 10-rounder for reference.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Russianhicap1.jpg  
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    Steve M
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    Posted - 06/20/2004 : 7:33:04 PM


    Pic's , well yes, I got one or two.

    First Pic is two 10 round mags , they are 12 round that have been blocked to 10 rounds.
    I'm not 100% ( Just 99.9% ) on this , but I'm pretty sure all Hi cap's are either 12 round or 12 blocked to 10.
    Two methods were used, The one on the left has the block on the bottom locking plate ( off white plastic or nylon ), the right one has the block as an extended tower on the middle follower ( with a flat metal bottom lock plate ).





    Pic of a 12 round mag , short middle follower and metal bottom lock plate.






    While we're on it , a pic of the two different types of OEM Russian 12 round mag's, The one on the left is the newer style that we are more use to seeing as they are more common, The right one is what came in with the early import hi cap IJ70's. They have what I call a welded ( spot ) single stack tower, some online sites describe them as aftermarket, They ARE NOT. Looking at them apart, side by side, It's easy to see their Russian origins.






    Close up of the two piece OEM 12 round Hi cap mag




    The rib's on the side of all mag's are nothing more than creases to increase strength, they don't come any where close to touching the follower's.

    Study close and read between the lines.
    I hope that answers a lot of question's.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2004620185727_2_10rounders.JPG   2004620185835_12round.JPG   2004620191235_2_12rounders.JPG   2004620192323_frankenmag2.JPG  
    Last edited by SlimTim; 09-09-2007 at 04:16 PM. Reason: forgot accreditation
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  3. #3
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    Teakwood
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    Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:42:39 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks, Steve M., for the pics. That's just the pictorial I was looking for. I just learned something new about hi-cap mags and the history of the hicap Maks.

    The ProMags have a weld across the middle, not the stack area, and are definitely a very dark shiny blue. Also, the footplate on the ProMag is folded sheet metal and is crimped on. The Russian footplates are machined and removable.

    Here's a somewhat dim pic of a ProMag POS for comparison.







    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Edited by - Teakwood on 06/20/2004 11:46:57 PM
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2004620234422_promag.jpg  
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  5. #4
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    Steve M
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    Posted - 09/28/2004 : 11:58:58 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ******* Final Chapter *********
    ( suggest you print this )
    After cutting the cylinder on the long middle follower to a length of about .600",
    A pin in the middle follower wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
    I chucked up a finishing nail about 1/16" dia. in a drill , spun it against some med. grit sandpaper to rough up the surface for the epoxy to bond to, used it as a drill and ran it into the side of the follower , front to back, not the side. Left about 1/16 of plastic under the hole ( C/L of hole about 3/32 from bottom of follower). Pulled it out to put a slight bend in it to also give the epoxy something to grip on to keep the pin from spinning or moving side to side and out.
    roughed up the plastic with the med. grit paper and cleaned everything up with isopropyl alcohol, also cut a washer from the remains of the cylinder upper spring flange.

    Mixed the PERMATEX Cold Weld item # 14600 2 part epoxy and filled the lower part of the cylinder to the level of the pin, coated the bottom edge, the washer and stuck it together, let dry a day and sanded the excess glue off, cut the pin flush.
    Putting the pin in also requires that about a 1/4 " or so be taken off the center post of the upper follower so that it will insert into the mid follower far enough, the followers should come together ( meet ) at the outer flanges, not the center post and the new bottom, I also cut about 4 coils off the top small spring to allow for the shorter length of the post.
    This puppy is now De-Post Ban normal cap mag ( 12 round ), the epoxy hardened like steel and bonded completely to the plastic, I've beat it , kicked it ect, ect, No problems, I trust this fix.




    Clockwise from lower left,

    short middle follower from a 12 round mag with metal lock plate or from a 10 rnd. with the tall plastic lock plate Cylinder length= .600".

    Long Middle follower from a 10 round mag

    Long middle follower cut to .600" , pinned and epoxy.

    top follower, post in middle cut shorter.

    normal top follower

    Plastic lower lock plate

    next to plastic lower lock with the cylinder pointing up is a steel lock plate from a generic 9mm mag cut to the width and length of the plastic lock. The cylinder can be cut of the plastic lock plate , but the 12th round is hard to load leaving little clearance to insert the mag with the slide closed, the metal replacement plate gives a little extra room. last is a metal lock plate from a 12 rnd mag with a short mid follower or a 10 round with the long mid follower. and the 2 part epoxy.
    let me know if confused or if I left something out.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2004928233815_hicapfinalchapter.JPG  
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    o07wray
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    Posted - 08/25/2005 : 6:36:33 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    here is a break down in my 2 diff. mags...

    one on the right is a factory 10 rnd mak mag
    the one on the left is a 12 rnd mak mag



    the only diff is the upper spring length, and the lower follower's upper spring retainer...

    cut the lower followers off to 15mm, drill a small 1/8 inch hole 2mm up from the bottom clean through both sides.. insert a metal 1/8 inch pin... cut upper spring to 85mm - 3mm to adj for added pin height & epoxy for a total of 82mm.. make sure to dress the spring with a new "foot".

    ruffen up the inside of the lowers follower.. add epoxy up to the holes.. insert pin.. cover top of pin with 1mm of epoxy file outside of pin flush with follower. reassemble.... easy

    Recommend Belzona® 1111 Super Metal, this epoxy can turned in a lathe like metal!!!.. great stuff for gun repair... and yes I know this is a plastic job.. bit really not.. remember that we covered the pin with 1mm of epoxy... it makes a plug attached to the pin that would have to pull out the holes in the side of the follower before it would break...

    10 round to 12 rounds CHEEP!!! just a little time and a few bucks for the Belzona.


    again.. if I ever state anything that might be dangerous or not sound.. please speak up ....I am a "newbee"

    this is a link to find and see what BELZONA can do!!http://www.dbrassociates.com/power%2...t%20repair.htm

    thanks,
    o07wray

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Edited by - o07wray on 08/25/2005 6:39:13 PM
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2005825183523_12RND.JPG  
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  7. #6
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    Default Yeah!

    It is back. Thanks for the work Tim, but I have to say, this post is already going to the "Dogs". :D Does Steve M still have some ideas and pics he can add? Hint, hint.

  8. #7
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    Talking 12 rnd mag

    How can a 12 round mag fit into a single stack 8 round Mak grip? Won't happen.
    "If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism." Thomas Sowell

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterDC9 View Post
    How can a 12 round mag fit into a single stack 8 round Mak grip? Won't happen.
    You are... CORRECT!

    While the 8 rounders WILL work in hi-cap Makarov pistols, the 10 & 12 round mags will NOT work in the 8 round guns.

    Welcome to the forum!

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    I've been doing some silicone molding to reproduce plastic parts. I'll see if it's possible to just come up with a replacement lower follower that would drop in.

    Thanks for the info guys.

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    Default 12 round mags & Mak 100% legit & original

    Hello all. I am a first time poster here. I googled Makarov and landed here, so I thought I would share what I have with everyone, since it seems rather rare from what I have read. I'm not a hand gun junkie, but in 1994, I purchased two Makarovs. One in May of that year and the other in October. The one I purchased in May was the standard 8 round unit. Upon hearing of a "hi-capacity" version, I had to have one and found one at a gun & knife show in Fort Wayne, Indiana. On Oct. 14, 1994 (I still have the receipt, I paid $209 + tax) I bought a brand new Russian IJ70-17AH. To this date, I still have the original box, receipt, manual, and grip (in 2001 or so, I put a Pierce grip on the gun). The gun and magazines are a true 12+1. The mags were never "blocked" and have never been altered in any way what so ever. I have put maybe 50 rounds through this gun in all the years I have owned it. Like I said, the mags hold 12 rounds of .380 and in fact, you can almost get a 13th in the magazine, but it bottoms out just short.

    Attached are photos.

    Gun, 2 mags, and 12 rounds.



    Gun, 2 mags, and the same 12 rounds loaded into the magazine.



    Backside of the loaded mag.



    Frontside of the loaded mag.



    Left side of the gun.



    Right side of the gun.



    Attached

  12. #11
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    Not rare at all, hi-cap Maks are pretty common. The mags are the original franken-mags and a bit unusual. I have had a couple myself, think I still have one somewhere but haven't seen it in a while.

    SlimTim
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
    Not rare at all, hi-cap Maks are pretty common.
    I thought the true 12 round mags were rare from what I had read other places. But if not, that is cool too.

    What is this gun roughly worth in today's market?

    Like I said, I'm not a hand gun junkie, so I don't know hand gun values.

  14. #13
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    Welcome to the forum dec.

    The 12 round mags are harder to find than the 10's, but I wouldn't call them real rare. The big drift of this post was mostly how to tell the "Real Russian" from the pro mags, Big Difference.
    also it is fairly easy to convert most of the 10 round to twelve round w/o any cutting and the post kind of became a how to for that.

    The values on the hi cap IJ 70 's has been kind of crazy lately and the prices seem to be down a little, $250 to $350, My guess is yours would be on the high end of that.

    I just recently bought two NIB conc Serial numbers 9X18 HC for $465.

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    Can the 10-rd New Pro Mag magazines be converted to 12-rd??
    I have been unable to find 12-rd mags to purchase and ended
    up with several of the New 10-rd Pro Mags.
    Thanks for your consideration

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljkcpa View Post
    Can the 10-rd New Pro Mag magazines be converted to 12-rd??
    I have been unable to find 12-rd mags to purchase and ended
    up with several of the New 10-rd Pro Mags.
    Thanks for your consideration
    No. I'm nearly certain they cannot be converted to 12 rounds.

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    Default 12 round mag

    dont know how "authentic" it is but the 12 roundf mag came with my IJ70-17AH by IMEZ.

  18. #17
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    You can try on this forum, Slim Tim's Makarov Trader:

    http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=47

    Yours look like KBI mags. I have a couple of those that were converted back to the 12 rounders myself. "dec" has a post above that shows the original 12 round mags I believe, you can see some differences from yours. There are some different configurations of the originals I believe but I don't know what they look like, just seem pics from time to time here. Slim Tim or Steve M might have pics.

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    Question

    Maybe dumb question, but will .380 Hicap mags fit in a 9x18 Mak? And, will .380 Hicap mags work with 9x18 ammo?

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Baird View Post
    Maybe dumb question, but will .380 Hicap mags fit in a 9x18 Mak? And, will .380 Hicap mags work with 9x18 ammo?

    Dave
    Nope, not dumb at all. Yes, they're interchangeable.

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    Thank you, Mike! I figured logically they should be, but my Mom always taught me to ask first!!

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    so if you trim the plastic parts on the Russian 10 rounder, the only other difference is the spring length?

  23. #22
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    Default Caution

    Quote Originally Posted by mpi View Post
    so if you trim the plastic parts on the Russian 10 rounder, the only other difference is the spring length?

    Depends on which plastic part you are going to trim,
    The plastic bottom that locks the base on ?
    That bottom spring is the same between 10 and 12 rounds mags.
    You can trim that part or replace it with a metal lock.

    The upper plastic part that sits between the two springs ?
    That upper spring can be different and I would not trim that part unless you have a way to build a new spring seat, other wise your mag becomes a paper weight.

    HTH's

  24. #23
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    Here's my 17AH
    and the 12 round mag it came with...

    видеодон

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    so which is the one you need to trim to open the capacity to 12?

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpi View Post
    so which is the one you need to trim to open the capacity to 12?

    Looking at this picture is your mag like the one on the left or right ?

    The one on the left the plastic part at the bottom can be trimed.

    The one on the right is best left alone.

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by videodon View Post
    Here's my 17AH
    and the 12 round mag it came with...

    Looks good, isn't that a 13 round mag in .380 ?

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    Looks good, isn't that a 13 round mag in .380 ?
    no.

    видеодон

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    i have 2 of the mags on the left with the plastic or nylon base with the usual metal floorplate.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpi View Post
    i have 2 of the mags on the left with the plastic or nylon base with the usual metal floorplate.
    Easy fix if you are handy with a hack saw or belt sander and live in a free state that allows mags that will hold more than 10 rounds,
    remove the ring ( cylinder ) that inserts into the spring.
    or
    This is my preferred method:
    fabricate a new metal locking insert to replace the plastic one.

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    remove from the plastic floorplate, right? not the middle piece that connects the upper and lower springs? i just want to be sure i do it right cause I've never dealt with one of these and don't want to screw it up.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpi View Post
    remove from the plastic floorplate, right? not the middle piece that connects the upper and lower springs? i just want to be sure i do it right cause I've never dealt with one of these and don't want to screw it up.

    Correct, another pic.

    on the left is an uncut insert , on the right is one cut down and the cut smoothed down as much as possible. The 12th round may be a little tight going in when using this modification.

    I want to urge caution when thinking about modifing these mags.
    At one time they were a little easier to find and they could be had for $15-25,
    Things have changed, the supply has dried up and the price has went way up. There are no spare parts on the market.
    A 10 round Orginal Russian mag that works is worth a lot more than a 0 round paper weight.

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    Easy fix if you are handy with a hack saw or belt sander and live in a free state that allows mags that will hold more than 10 rounds,
    remove the ring ( cylinder ) that inserts into the spring.
    or
    This is my preferred method:
    fabricate a new metal locking insert to replace the plastic one.

    A small pic to explain the preferred method,
    2 of the plastic base locking inserts are at top and left.
    At the bottom ( #4 ) is the locking insert from an original Russian 12 round mag.
    At the right ( #3 ) is a fabricated insert to replace the plastic insert, I went through some old mag parts until I found one that came close and cut it down to fit. Works fine and is thin enough that the 12 round is easier to get loaded and stock parts aren't cut on.

  34. #33
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    in my vast store of parts and junk, i couldn't find any suitable parts so i filed down my locking plates and am now the proud owner of 3 perfectly functioning 12 round makarov mags! happy day.

  35. #34
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    I'm glad it worked out for you! It's sad when someone ruins a 10rd'er trying to do the conversion. Luckily I have never had to resort to using a promag in these guns. I never understood their niche market of making crappy mags for out of production guns such as the Star 30m or these type of Makarovs.

    I'm surprised Triple K mags does not make a magazine for the high capacity Makarov.
    .

  36. #35
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    I have a copy of this post that I made in 2005 in PDF. It has some of the pics that were lost. However, it is appears to be too large to post.
    I broke it up into two parts. Hope this helps.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Teakwood; 08-21-2010 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Found a way to add files.

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    I appreciate all the info on this... Just as a frame of reference for everyone as far as inflation, this magazine I was bidding on sold yesterday.... Click image for larger version. 

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  39. #38
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    Cool! Nice price! I'm still hanging on to half a dozen or so of yhe 12 rouders. Lol.
    None are so blind as those who will not see.

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    That's crazy, I have one 12 and two 10 myself.

  41. #40
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    Default 12 rounders

    Here's my stock.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20160108_151803.jpg   20160108_151730.jpg  
    None are so blind as those who will not see.

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