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Is this a Star S?

1K views 16 replies 4 participants last post by  joe7170 
#1 ·
This was found in a collection of a late friend who we have been going though. I have bought a couple stars out of this collection already, we found this one today in a couch of all places!

So is this a S?? Looks like a N proof so 1943 made?? What is the crest on the right front??

Also, what is the market on these. I might buy it?


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#2 ·
You have found an interesting piece, yes it is a S made in 1943 for the Spanish "Armed Police" (PA) the serial number will be on the butt along with a block S. That is one of 7600 delivered in 1943 the second year of deliveries. They bought S pistols until 1978 for a total of over 41,000. The grips throw me because if i remember correctly the checkered panels did not appear until 1946.
The condition is not real great but those markings are rarely encountered on the market, a more stylish shield and just block letters "PA" next to it are the markings normally found on post war pistols.
 
#4 ·
There is no S on bottom of grip, kinda why I asked as all other are marked. Just serial # 11990

The finish looks worse under the flash, no rust, or pitting, just wear and tear.

Bore is good a bit of wear and couple spots of pitting, put 8 rnds though it today runs like a champ.
 
#5 ·
Hmmm. That proof mark isn't in my proof mark directory. (Standard Directory of Proof Marks, Gerhard Wirnsberger)

Mike, my Model S (year code is P, so 1945?) has the same 5 digit number on the right side of the frame, on the inside of the slide, on the barrel and on the "matching" magazine that came with the pistol.

Are these assembly numbers?

By the way, mine came with the smooth thumb-rest grips.
 
#7 ·
Old 1911....Skip, As I indicated in the PM the numbers in question are control numbers for the AF and also to insure the proper parts remain on each pistol. Your S Spanish AF pistol was made in the first year of issue and the AF acquired pistols until 1978. The pistol pictured by the OP is quite interesting as it is an early example and if the serial number posted is correct the frame is from pre Civil War that was finished as a complete pistol in 1943. That would also explain the lack of an S on the butt as it would appear to have been made before model numbers were assigned.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I have also found the importers cardboard box, nothing exciting, just a plain pasteboard box.

I will take the pistol down, and see if there is any more numbers inside, but I don't remember seeing any other number yesterday when I cleaned it...

OK, just looked, no other numbers on gun, but the ones on the heel. I took a few more pics for you all....

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#9 ·
The earliest recorded number for a modelnS is 178776 and records of all production pieces were available until the end of S series production, however the first 12,000 pistols for the PA were numbered starting at #1. Pistols 4401 to 12,000 were completed in 1943 so it appears you have one of these distinctly numbered pistols. The pistol becomes more interesting all the time and would be a nice addition to a collection if documented history was included. Also there is a crest of some sort below the slide stop that is not too clear, rub a white crayon over it and see if the image will come out better.
 
#11 ·
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There you go, better light and highlighted stamps for you.

So with a serial number of 11990, and they went to 12000 in 1943 safe to assume this was made in the last week of the year, since it's 10 from the end:laugh:
 
#13 ·
View attachment 1427633 View attachment 1427641

There you go, better light and highlighted stamps for you.

So with a serial number of 11990, and they went to 12000 in 1943 safe to assume this was made in the last week of the year, since it's 10 from the end:laugh:

Thanks for posting those pics. As you've probably figured out by now, I'm interested in these pistols too. FWIW, that crest isn't in The Standard Directory of Proof Marks either, at least not the edition I have. It's proving to be far from comprehensive. I'm betting Mike will show up soon with more information though.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Well I hate to let everyone down ( particularly me) but the mark is foreign (ha ha) to me....I can find no reference to it in my material but it obviously is a political entity in the new Franco Government, perhaps the Director Gen. Seguridad for the PA had a mark for that unit. They are the ones who directed the PA and emblem be stamped on the pistol. The mark may not have been placed on all early pistols and certainly is not on later issues.....all a big guess though.
Nice pistol...I have over eighty Star and Llama pistols in my "collection" and enjoy all.

Through exhaustive search and great effort on my part (yeah--sure) I found an acquaintance who has a much newer production PA marked pistol with the S and standard serial number in 99+% condition. It too has the mystery marking in the same location.....unfortunately he knows not it's meaning. My PA is a much later pistol, near end of production and although the Slide has the emblem and P.A. It does not have the other mark. I still believe the mark in question is to identify a particular region ( or city since urban areas were the PA's jurisdiction) and the equipment assigned to it. Stay tuned for further record breaking information if i can uncover anything note worthy.
 
#16 ·
BTW, importer is SSME Plant City FL which is Deutsche Waffen, INC Maybe it came from Germany?
SSME is a importer in the Tampa, Florida area and a lot of what they imported came from Israel and Germany. I don't know if Israel is where yours came from but it might be worth checking out. South Africa used Star pistols also and is another possibility.

SSME use to do gun shows in the Tampa area but I think they are no longer in business. Much of their stuff was Spanish, German, and Czech made military surplus and some new FEG pistols from Hungary. I bought a few pistols from them when I lived there.
 
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