PSL or FPK?
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Thread: PSL or FPK?

  1. #1

    Default PSL or FPK?

    Here's some more new guy ?'s I just bought my rifle today:D. It looks exactly like a PSL but it's marked with FPK on the receiver. The gunshop owner assured me that it was made in Romania and not a parts gun made in the U.S. In front of the mag well is marked made in Romania TGI Knox TN. I'm assuming that TGI is the importer? Not familiar with them at all. I want to zero the rifle in tomorrow, so I bought a box of Czech silver tip ammo. Whats the best procedure for sighting the rifle in at 100yds? Where should the elevation and windage knobs be set etc... Thanks again for the help! This is gonna be fun!!!!

  2. #2
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    Its the same thing but I believe the FPK and it being from TN it is made from a parts kit in the USA.
    Make sure you check for cant and rust as the TN guns are prone to have. I have owned 2 of them and both have had some problem like that.
    Not saying yours will be a lemon though.

    They are alot of fun to shoot and you will be glad you baught one

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    PSL= romanian military quality
    FPK= junk made out of parts kit in some hill billy barn

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    Please disregard the previous statement. I have a TN guns FPK and it is fine, some of the very early TN guns builds were rather....iffy. They seem to have gotten their act together as of late and I havent heard a bad report about one in quite a long time.However I have heard of many Romanian built guns having a host of problems. Easiest way to check and see if it is an import or a stateside build is to look at the back end of the barrel inside the action where it protrudes through the rear trunion, do you see scratch marks on the barrel where the bluing or parkerizing has been scratched away? The romanian built guns were built then finished and you will not see this, the stateside builds were finished, disassembled then reassembled without refinishing so there are usually scratch marks on the rear of the barrel where it was re-inserted into the trunion.
    Either way most are good but a few need help, hope you got a good one, odds are you did whether or not it was a kit or an import.
    Bossman

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    The current FPK's, which are marked on the left side of the receiver in the same dot-matrix pattern used on Century PSL-54c's, are indeed produced in Romania. The difference between TN Guns-built and imported FPK's are the markings. The TN-Guns made FPK's have a laser-engraving in front of the mag well with the pertinent info. The imports are impact-marked just below the trunion.

    Davis
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    And imports are marked "PSL" or "PSL-54C"....
    Fine Print:
    The preceeding opinion should be considered only as an opinion and not legal advice. In no event will the poster, Unbekannt, be held liable to any party for any damages arising in any way out of the availability, use, reliance on or inability to use poster's opinion or any information provided by or through the poster, or for any claim attributable to errors, omissions or other inaccuracies in, or destructive properties of any information provided by or through the poster.

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    No, imports can also be marked FPK. The rifles sold by Atlantic with 5 matching magazines and bayonet (but not a functioning bayo lug) are marked FPK and are imported by Tennessee Guns. I know, I have one, and TN Guns confirmed on the phone that it was indeed made in Romania and imported by TN Guns.

    Here is the text from TN Guns, with my message first:

    On your current FPK rifles, are they built in Romania or are they built in
    the US? Are they from kits or virgin parts? The one I have is a current one that Atlantic is selling with the 5 matching magazines. Serial number is (OMITTED). It lacks the demilled bayonet lug. (there is no band what so ever).

    Thanks,

    Davis Riddle

    (REPLY)

    All FPK rifles are always built from demilled PSL rifles, never from new
    parts. We have built them in Romania and the US. This gun was made in Romania, if it matters to you.

    Glad I could help, have a great day.


    Ryan Patrick
    Sales Manager
    TG International
    865-977-9119 x25
    865-977-9728 fax
    Last edited by Davis; 08-16-2008 at 07:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakentt View Post
    PSL= romanian military quality
    FPK= junk made out of parts kit in some hill billy barn
    Actually some of the the kits are from REAL ex military PSLs which means they are of the same quality others are just extra parts(pls note the bayonet lug, if it was made for commercial use they wouldnt have these and then file them down).
    I will agree they are built my monkies(I take offence to hill billy sir!)

    Some TN guns turn out fine, others are complete lemons. I have gotten 2 lemons and no longer trust the company beyond bolt action rifles.
    To be fair I havnt heard any horror stories from TN or Century in a long while. Seems they both got their acts together. However I like century more. They might be slow in it but if the rifle you get is a lemon they will fix or replace it.
    Last edited by ncreptile; 08-16-2008 at 09:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakentt View Post
    PSL= romanian military quality
    FPK= junk made out of parts kit in some hill billy barn
    FWIW-From 1987-89 I was in 2nd Bn 10th SFG(A) at Ft Devens, MA. In our battalion arms room were about 30 Romanian AKM/S' and around 10 FPK sniper rifles. There were a similar number in the 3rd Bn arms room. As I understood it they were obtained from Romania directly.
    "It's the end of the World as we Know it...and I feel fine!":eek:

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    FWIW my TG FPK works like a champ with no issues whatsoever. Very accurate and extremely fun to shoot. When sighting in, just remember the windage and elevation knobs move the reticle in the direction of the bullet impact. I put my FPK on a steady rest and sighted in on the target at 100yds using the iron sights. Then I simply looked through the scope and adjusted windage and elevation to line up with irons. I understand this may not work for everyone due to scope, mount and scope rail issues on individual rifles. Worked for me. Hawkeye Shooter, enjoy that FPK/PSL and welcome to the forum!
    Last edited by acirema; 08-17-2008 at 07:13 AM.

  12. #11

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    Thanks for all of the info. Some more facts about my rifle. It has the bayonet lug, although the ears on the lug have been filed off, and it has a removeable flashhider. I field stripped my rifle and all of the serial #'s match, so that's a plus. In the end I guess I don't really care where this rifle was made as long as it shoots straight and doesn't blow up in my face !! Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakentt View Post
    PSL= romanian military quality
    FPK= junk made out of parts kit in some hill billy barn

    All the same Romanian parts. One is assemled in Romania (same as WASR etc.) and some assembled in the USA. Both can have issues and neither is military spec with the exception of some very early import rifles.
    Perpetuating internet myth once again.
    As any AK or PSL owner of recent import firearms knows, the Romanian arms factories are not producing at the height of weapons fit and finish these days. Commercial production rifles in former state owned factories for export to the USA and other. And US arms production/modification quality from TGI, CAI and others can suffer the same issues.
    There are good examples of both type PSL rifles and there are those with build quality issues.
    Last edited by AKBLUE; 08-17-2008 at 11:42 AM.

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    OK so PSL is the most inferior semi automatic sniper rifle from eastern block and then you add the post cold war comercial lower quality eastern european weapons, demiled and then sent to USA to be built by some shops in rural TN state and then you tell me thats a great sniper rifle. I don't thinks so.

    I would like to have original romanian military PSL but it has auto sear and it is illegal to have that imported here. I just don't have any fairth in comercial ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakentt View Post
    OK so PSL is the most inferior semi automatic sniper rifle from eastern block and then you add the post cold war comercial lower quality eastern european weapons, demiled and then sent to USA to be built by some shops in rural TN state and then you tell me thats a great sniper rifle. I don't thinks so.

    I would like to have original romanian military PSL but it has auto sear and it is illegal to have that imported here. I just don't have any fairth in comercial ones.
    Its not even a Sniper rifle. Itsa designated marksmans rifle.
    Inferior? if you think the Russian Dragunov is a good DM rifle then I guess you cant call the PSL inferior since I can get similar accuracy to that of an SVD.
    PSL does a great job for what it is, its not a sniper rifle. Its meant to provide squad support at longer ranges than the average AK.

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    Hackentt,

    I own both an SVD (not a Tigr, not an NDM-86, but an SVD) as well as a PSL. I mean no flame nor offense, but you are incorrect in your assessment. The PSL is not a Dragunov, but owning both, I would feel equally armed with either rifle in a combat scenario.

    Davis
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    My PSL is a true import just like the SVD! They are both
    just as equel when it comes to hitting a 18 inch gong at
    6 or 800 yards 9 out of 10 rounds but my SVT is the best
    10 on 10!!!
    Cheers
    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    Its not even a Sniper rifle. Itsa designated marksmans rifle.
    Inferior? if you think the Russian Dragunov is a good DM rifle then I guess you cant call the PSL inferior since I can get similar accuracy to that of an SVD.
    PSL does a great job for what it is, its not a sniper rifle. Its meant to provide squad support at longer ranges than the average AK.
    OK, if a PSL or FPK or SVD are not "sniper rifles" but are DM rifles, then please tell me what is the "sniper rifle" their various armies use?
    "It's the end of the World as we Know it...and I feel fine!":eek:

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    Sniper is not a firmly defined concept. Horatio Nelson was killed by a sniper, from 50 feet away, or so. Said sniper naturally did not have a scoped rifle, but was firing a flintlock (though whether it was smooth-bore or rifled, I do not immediately know). The designated marksman is a sniper in the true sense and use of the word. The vast majority of snipers employed in the world in the last 200 years have been employed during battle and NOT as lone assassins (or part of a two-man assassin team). The PSL and SVD are not designed for the one-shot Marine scout sniper as the US concept goes (a concept that is relatively recent). They were designed around the concept that the sniper goes into battle, too. That the sniper takes out important targets on the battle field while his (or her) comrades are equally engaged. They are equally as valid in that role as the #4(T), the M1C or M1D, or various 91/30 sniper rifles.

    The "modern" concept of the sniper who goes out with a spotter and does everything alone is also a sniper, but he is no more "legitimate" in that role, nor is his rifle, than the platoon-level designated marksman. Indeed, in reality, the DM is likely to have a greater impact on any tactical situation than the former "sniper." The silent sentinel shooting at a single target before disappearing into the mist is not really a tactical element at all. These are strategic in nature and have a different impact. In any case, the greatest snipers in the world would have done very well with an SVD or PSL.

    Davis
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    Quote Originally Posted by anarchy View Post
    OK, if a PSL or FPK or SVD are not "sniper rifles" but are DM rifles, then please tell me what is the "sniper rifle" their various armies use?
    Have no idea, I just know its meant to provide squad support and so is the SVD although it is used alot of times as a sniper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis View Post
    Sniper is not a firmly defined concept. Horatio Nelson was killed by a sniper, from 50 feet away, or so. Said sniper naturally did not have a scoped rifle, but was firing a flintlock (though whether it was smooth-bore or rifled, I do not immediately know). The designated marksman is a sniper in the true sense and use of the word. The vast majority of snipers employed in the world in the last 200 years have been employed during battle and NOT as lone assassins (or part of a two-man assassin team). The PSL and SVD are not designed for the one-shot Marine scout sniper as the US concept goes (a concept that is relatively recent). They were designed around the concept that the sniper goes into battle, too. That the sniper takes out important targets on the battle field while his (or her) comrades are equally engaged. They are equally as valid in that role as the #4(T), the M1C or M1D, or various 91/30 sniper rifles.

    The "modern" concept of the sniper who goes out with a spotter and does everything alone is also a sniper, but he is no more "legitimate" in that role, nor is his rifle, than the platoon-level designated marksman. Indeed, in reality, the DM is likely to have a greater impact on any tactical situation than the former "sniper." The silent sentinel shooting at a single target before disappearing into the mist is not really a tactical element at all. These are strategic in nature and have a different impact. In any case, the greatest snipers in the world would have done very well with an SVD or PSL.

    Davis
    Actually the PSL rifle is meant to hit MG nests and other places to far out for the average AK rifle. Has it been used to hit high level figures? Maybe. I know that the Iraqis use it as a sniper rifle but they are not real soldiers and I couldnt really care what they say about it.

    This is your opinion. Sniper is basically peoples opinions. The US army will tell you its a 2 man team, the russians will say its a lone person with an SVD. The bubbas in USA will say any scoped rifle is a sniper rifle.
    It wasnt designed as a sniper rifle, therefor it isnt. Even if it was used as one.
    Heck some AKMs might be used as sniper rifles, but does that make the AK one?

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    Oh. it was most certainly designed as a sniper's rifle, just as the SVD, and has performed that role. You need to understand just what a sniper is. It is not a universally-defined concept.

    Unless, of course, you do not believe that history is correct - and it is not a debated topic - that Nelson was killed by a sniper.

    That the US has a definition of a sniper is significant, but you do realize that the US does not have a solid or very long-term system of sniper training. After the Civil War, sniper training was forgotten, ditto for after WWI, WWII, and Korea. Only with Vietnam did the concept of sniper training take root, but even so, the US Army sniper training school did not become a reality until 1987. The PSL and SVD were developed long before then. Therefore, the doctrines of snipers (the Soviets invented the two-man team concept, by the way) and their weapons cannot be considered a US invented thing and so, the PSL and SVD, while not your definition of a sniper's rifle, are most certainly snipers' rifles.

    As to the hunting rifle with a scope, perhaps you do not realize that in Vietnam, that was exactly what the sniper rifle was (Remington 700's and Winchester 70's). Indeed, any hunting rifle today would make an excellent sniper's rifle, Bubba's opinion or not.

    The sniper is not merely an assassin who shoot high-level officers from afar in a strategic setting. Indeed, most snipers throughout time (the vast, vast majority of all snipers) were tactical snipers who engaged targets on the battlefield. This remains true today. These are the snipers the SVD and PSL were designed for. And, more importantly, these are the roles in which the sniper has made the largest impact throughout time.

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    I do not believe the Romanian army considers it a sniper rifle. I have owned several of these myself, sure they can be used as a snipers weapon but they are truly a DM rifle.

    What the makers AKA Romanian Armed Forces consider it is good enough for me.
    Call it what YOU like.

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    http://www.arms.home.ro/arms/pg/index.html

    The Romanians do indeed call it a sniper rifle. Again, no offense, but the concept of the sniper and his rifle is not universal and we, the US, are relative late comers to the game.

    The Russians, also, call the SVD a sniper rifle

    http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/svd.shtml

    Davis
    Last edited by Davis; 08-18-2008 at 09:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anarchy View Post
    OK, if a PSL or FPK or SVD are not "sniper rifles" but are DM rifles, then please tell me what is the "sniper rifle" their various armies use?
    This is precisely why I asked this question. For the 20 odd years I was in the U.S. Army we were taught, briefed and schooled that the SVD and PSL's were "sniper rifles". "Sniper rifles" that were employed differently than the way the U.S. Army employed sniper rifles, but sniper rifles nevertheless. And the Warsaw Pact had been employing the SVD like this (in squad sized elements) for years if not decades. There was NEVER any talk during the Cold War that these weapons were any thing other than "Sniper rifles".

    Now, most recently, we have a new term: the "Designated Marksman" and at the wave of a verbal magic wand the FPK/PSL/SVD is no longer a sniper rifle? Only because we are now doing what the Russians had been doing for a long time-pushing precision shooting (I admit the Russians and US have different standards of precision) down to a lower unit level?

    The term designated marksman has meaning currently in US military doctrine but it doesn't change the fact that on the other side of the fence these weapons are still considered to be and used as "sniper rifles".
    "It's the end of the World as we Know it...and I feel fine!":eek:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakentt View Post
    PSL= romanian military quality
    FPK= junk made out of parts kit in some hill billy barn

    My hillbilly junk shot so good, I have number 2 on the way....



    Simo Haya, didn't use a scope so he must not be a sniper
    Life is rough... wear a helmet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anarchy View Post
    OK, if a PSL or FPK or SVD are not "sniper rifles" but are DM rifles, then please tell me what is the "sniper rifle" their various armies use?

    Names change and so does technology and weapon size. Here is a asite that cobntains 40 or 50 international, "sniiper, designated marksman, optically enhanced tactical weapon or whatever.

    http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn00-e.htm

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    Man, some people sure can get offensive about stuff, fast.

    I've owned a bunch (and still do) of "sniper" rifles. Spent a bunch of time in the US Army and some in The Corps. I was a Soviet Doctrinal Specialist, even. I am even (now) a HillBilly, by choice. (LA kid moved to Mississippi) BUT! A PSL (or an SVD either one) is called, BY the Former Soviet Union's States, a "sniper rifle" for the purposes that they put them to. Will it race along with a 700? Nope! Will an M-14 Sniper keep up with a 700? Nope!

    Accept these rifles for what they are, and enjoy them. The guy wanted to know what he has!

    Ypu have a PSL made either in Romania or in the US from those same parts. I have had 5 PSL's and 1 SVD. I kept 1 of the Tennessee Guns Parts kit rifles because it was the highest quality, save the SVD. The SVD was better made (different gun altogether, even) but cost too much since my PSL will do everything it does, just as well.

    Dude, you have a fun gun, enjoy it.

    Davis, once again, I bow to your extreme knowledge in these matters. You always are well-informed, and I believe that you are a gentleman in your manner of explanation. You keep a calm frane of mind, better than I do.
    Join the PSL Owners' Group. I'll approve you as soon as I see your request.

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    I was in the ARMY in the 80s and did my Target Interdiction school at Langley, I guess that term is not used any more. A sniper rifle is a sniper rifle when a trained sniper held it, other wise it was a precision rifle, no more. Didn't most of us that were or are in the military qualify with a M16 at 3 or 400 yds with iron sights? Distance makes 0 difference, it comes down to the rifle and the person. The rifle is a precision rifle. The person is trained in the art of stalking, hiding, avoiding, engaging the target, and hopefully getting home. A rifle can not do any of that on it's own, and unless the guy is trained, in some way, he can't either. What do the Marines? "I am nothing without my rifle it is nothing without me." that says it all
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    Here's a start on some better known more-or-less current sniper rifles and variations, with bolt-guns and big .50s, semi-autos, and some with full auto capability. We might call the less accurate ones "designated marksman rifles" to fit modern squad tactics, but if they are speciallized rifles equipped with optics for a skilled trained shooter to take out chosen targets at fairly long range, they are "snipers" to me and to the military of the world:

    1) M24 Remington and M24 "overhaul" XM2010, plus earlier Pemington 700 variants such as US Marine M40 - US
    2) Barrett M107A1 and earlier versions such as M82A1 -US and UK
    3) M21 Sniper (Accurized M14) -US
    4) Garand M1C and M1D -US
    5) Parker Hale Model 82 -UK
    7) Mauser 86SR-Germany
    8) Sako TRG-21/41- Finland
    9) SIG-Sauer SSG2000 -Switzerland
    10) Steyr SSG69
    11) RAI Model 500 Longe Range Rifle -US
    12) FN-30-11- Belgium
    13) L96A1- Accuracy International PM -UK
    14) Stehr-Mannlicher SSG-PI--Austria
    15) SVD Dragunov and later variations -Russia
    16) H&K scoped MSG90 -Germany
    17) L1A1 (FN FAL) scoped -Belgium
    18) Galil Sniper -Israel
    19) Accuracy International AW -UK
    20) SIG SSG550 Sniper Rifle - Switzerland
    21) FR-F2 -France
    22) AS50 Semi-Auto Rifle -UK
    23) C7A1- Canada
    24) VAIME SSR Mk 1 -Finland
    25) H&K G-3561
    26) H&K PSG-1 and G3 variation -Germany
    27) McMillan C15 Longe Range Sniper Weapon (LSRW) - built for Canada
    28) McMillan TAC-338
    29) Accuaracy International L96 -UK

    This is not a complete list by any means and rifles may have many variations and names from country to country.













    Quote Originally Posted by anarchy View Post
    OK, if a PSL or FPK or SVD are not "sniper rifles" but are DM rifles, then please tell me what is the "sniper rifle" their various armies use?

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    I have to say that we are all splitting hairs on some level. And I agree, Davis has a good bit of knowledge on this....I believe the sometimes shoddy quality of some of the imported/ assembled PSL's has turned some off on them, and outright turned some people against them. I think its rediculous......

    For the record, I completely agree with Davis.

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    Another 3.5 year old PSL thread?

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    Hooters have burger??? I never noticed.
    Dave

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    On that sniper rifle list above? Add Romania: PSL (FPK is a US Army designation for that weapon) It is what their "Snipers" are issued. Jeez! This is totally anal! yes, the rifle is nothing without the rifleman, the precision rifle is nothing without it's Sniperbob.
    Join the PSL Owners' Group. I'll approve you as soon as I see your request.

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    Default PSL vs FPK

    on the original topic, I have 2 PSL's I really enjoy, give me satisfying results everytime out, ones a Cugir, the other a CAI Sporter. I had a TGI FPK that literally fell apart on me, took it back, and ended up returning 3 total before I gave up on the FPK...I hear good things about them sometimes, but ill never try another one, not as long as PSLs are around. Plus I hate the cheezy plastic furniture on the TGIs.

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