Gunboard's Forums - Powered by vBulletin
  • Register
  • Help


  • Forum
    • Today's Posts
    • FAQ
    • Calendar
    • Community
      • Groups
      • My Albums
      • Member List
    • Forum Actions
      • Mark Forums Read
    • Quick Links
      • View Forum Leaders
  • What's New?
  • Advanced Search
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Gunboards.com Discussion Boards
  • Martini Henry Forum
  • Khyber Pass .303 Pistol

  1. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Khyber Pass .303 Pistol

  • Thread Tools
    • Show Printable Version
    • Email this Page…
    • Subscribe to this Thread…
  • Display
    • Switch to Hybrid Mode
    • Switch to Threaded Mode
  1. Rapidrob's Avatar
    Rapidrob
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    Rapidrob is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Albuquerque,New Mexico
    Posts
    81

    Khyber Pass .303 Pistol

    A couple of years ago myself and a good friend conspired to help out our military sniper teams. We had heard that a well known outfit that specializes in "MILSPEC" rifle goodies had sold the Marines and other forces a scope mount that was crap. We knew we could make a much better and simpler mount.
    At that time only the Marines were using the M-14 more than any other service. We had developed a very stable platform to hold a scope and it's zero no matter what.
    We had a "few" built and sent to squads in the Sand Box and Afghanistan to try out.
    We got very few replies one way or the other about the mounts and how they did/did not work. It didn't really matter as long as they got put to use.
    One Marine did reply and thanked us for the time and effort. He also told of his "kills' using the mount on his M-14.
    As it turns out, this Marine is from the Four-Corners area, and drove into Albuquerque today. He met up with Me and Scotsman and said he knew I liked odd-ball fire arms.( he has been on SR in the past) While he had seen rifles and other weapons that would make all of us green with envy, most could not be "brought" back home.
    He did however present me with this little jewel of a pistol. One taken from one of his targets,a Khyber Pass, hand converted Martini-Henry .303 1870 pistol.
    As you may know these captured weapons were converted into all sorts of hell raisers. Or copied outright by hand! Their sole purpose was to be used to kill the Enemy soldier at close range and take their firearm(s)
    The workmanship is better than high School shop class. All parts are original English manufacture. The cocking lever has been modified. Pistol grips have been added and are lined with a steel plate. The barrel is original with the early rifling that is still in very good shape and
    the barrel is now "half-Round". Two sling/string swivels have been added as well as a hand crafted front sight. A groove has been cut at 12 o'clock to be used as a rear sight.
    Once I check this pistol out I will of course fire it. The bad guy did, at least for a few rounds.
    I took the pistol to the range with some reduced loads. The pistol shot to the point of ain, and a little low at 25 yards. The fireball was impressive.
    The 2.5" barrel was not enough to stabilize all the bullets. Still, the pistol was made to kill the infidel and steal his weapon. Not made to be a march pistol. Recoil was stout.









    Last edited by DoubleD; 09-15-2008 at 12:09 AM.
    Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 1970-72
    GMCM(SW) 1969-1989
    NRA Endowment Member
    " I buy the Constitution and The Bill-Of-Rights, you can keep the CHANGE."

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. DoubleD's Avatar
    DoubleD
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    DoubleD is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    in the shadow of the Sweetgrass Hills
    Posts
    1,595

    After you insert a picture then hit the enter key to put a space and line between each picture.

    Can you point to the original parts, I see none.

    If the bore was good why did the bullets keyhole?

    You should indeed keep this gun as symbol of the graditude for your kindness shown by the young marine. But your are risking your life shooting it.

    You have my appreciation for suppoorting the Marines.
    Last edited by DoubleD; 09-15-2008 at 09:48 PM.
    Douglas
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. Rapidrob's Avatar
    Rapidrob
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    Rapidrob is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Albuquerque,New Mexico
    Posts
    81

    It keyholes because the rifling is only 2.5" long. The rest of the barrel is chamber. Plus there is no way you can push the bullet fast enough to impart enough spin to stabilize the bullet. Can you point out why you feel that the markings are not "real"?
    Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 1970-72
    GMCM(SW) 1969-1989
    NRA Endowment Member
    " I buy the Constitution and The Bill-Of-Rights, you can keep the CHANGE."

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. fallingblock
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    fallingblock is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10

    Compare the Enfield marking on the side to an original and you will know.
    Cheers,
    Fallingblock
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. Viclav
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    Viclav is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    122

    Re: Markings

    Just for starters, the Martini did not come online as a service weapon until 1871... That "1870" is just as spurious as "VR 1913."
    Never mind the other irregularities.

    Victor

    "Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. Rapidrob's Avatar
    Rapidrob
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    Rapidrob is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Albuquerque,New Mexico
    Posts
    81

    Thanks for the info. Why would anyone go to all the trouble to place all the markings on the pistol and it's parts is beyond me? It is a different world.
    Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 1970-72
    GMCM(SW) 1969-1989
    NRA Endowment Member
    " I buy the Constitution and The Bill-Of-Rights, you can keep the CHANGE."

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. RobD's Avatar
    RobD
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    RobD is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    458

    Rapidrob, I have to agree with DD - to my eye not a single part of that gun ever came off an Enfield production line. The reason for fakery? Why, to flog it to the locals, of course. The gun likely blew up some time ago and was shortened to a revolver when it did.
    "The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past". (William Faulkner)
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. Calgacus
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    Calgacus is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    492

    At that barrel length only a tiny part of the normal rifle powder charge would burn. It is, at least, less likely to damage the user's hearing than a barrel with four or five inches of rifling. What surprises me is that the bullet looks to have ended up little if any larger in diameter than it started.

    There are a few of these pistol-shaped objects about nowadays. One has been on a firearms auction site for a long time, which at a starting price of $375 and buy now price of $1450 shouldn't be surprising. It is described as a tiger hunter's howdah pistol, and 2/3 standard Martini size, although I think one is as factually imprecise as the other. Anybody who feels I am promoting an auction misunderstands my intention.

    I don't believe the faults of the Afghan people include gross ignorance of firearms. I think these were made not to flog to the locals, but to tourists. Most likely they were.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. Engineer 179's Avatar
    Engineer 179
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    Engineer 179 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    169

    Calgacus,

    This subject comes up every so often. From many trips to Afghanistan over the last six years as a government contractor, I have seen several of these pistolsin break open and falling/pivoting breech types. The one illustrated is slightly better finished than most. I know of no Afghan Native who carries one of these and neither does my long term Afghan contact. These often sell in the bazaar's for in the $100 or so range ( with tough negotiation) and are strictly built for tourist trade as a "unusual local modification". The native Afghans can generally get an AK or similar for near the same money and know that they have a weapon far less likely to blow-up in their face.

    One of the better dealers that I have worked with through my long term contact, sells these and similar kyber scrap in the front of his shop. In the second room, he carries a mix of real antiques, civilian and military modern/semi-modern arms and very well made "replicas" and will tell you what is what, if you are invited to the back. He has a nephew with a well equiped small machine shop/forge who asked if a 577 snider chambered double pistol based on the IZH 20 gage external hammer side-by-side shotgun action would be more marketable. Built by a skilled craftman with a reasonable equipped shop and a knowledge of metal and heat treatment, such a piece would be very interesting. It would however sell for a fair amount more than the tourist paperweight pieces currently available.

    This nephew has built a stainless steel damascus bladed hand and a half sword for me and did an exceptional job for $125 plus the 420,cm152 and 440C steel that I supplied him. I look forward to seeing what he has when I get back there late this month.

    Engineer 179
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. Calgacus
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    Calgacus is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    492

    That is just about what I would have expected, and it is interesting to have so much inside information. I've seen a Time-Life book on the area and Michael Palin's "Himalaya" programme on the arms trade in Darra Adam Khel, and the Afghans, and the Afghans' Pakistani friends and relations, are very much to be admired for what they achieve with very limited technical resources. They deserve to be compared with early American small-town gunmakers. But that is an altogether different trade, aimed at a different market.

    Rudyard Kipling believed that a lot of the Afghan Martinis were made in Kabul, and in those days they had the reputation of being inferior in accuracy, but not deathtraps like this paperweight would be, and certainly not of a design that would be worthless if made to the highest standards.

    Your friend is right about a .577 on a shotgun action, which is pretty much how the few so-called howdah pistols were made. I think it is another collector's term which is mostly of modern origin, and they were at least as likely to be used against savage tribesmen such as Afghans or Dervishes, as tigers. Most men preferred heavy calibre revolvers. Pistols used a shorter .577 cartridge, though, as the recoil of the rifle Snider round would be extremely vicious, and I think a more supportive grip than a simple shotgun conversion would be needed.

    The people who now import these items for sale bear a heavy burden, with or without warnings of caution before firing. If you say " Walk softly but carry a big stick" to your dog, all he will hear is " walk."
    Last edited by Calgacus; 10-14-2008 at 11:55 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. John Sukey
    • View Profile
    • View Forum Posts
    • Private Message
    John Sukey is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    5,655

    anybody notice the upside down 11? And of course the shape of the crown is wrong.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

+Reply to Thread
Quick Navigation Martini Henry Forum Top
  • Site Areas
  • Settings
  • Private Messages
  • Subscriptions
  • Who's Online
  • Search Forums
  • Forums Home
  • Forums
  • Private - Admin Boards
  • System Help - Test Boards
    1. Sponsors links
    2. Report Spam here
    3. System Help Forum
    4. Test Forum
    5. Performance Issues
  • Gunboards Trader-Classified Ads-Sponsors Boards
    1. Sponsor's Trader for deals and special offers
    2. Group Buy Forum
    3. Group Buy Suggestion Board
    4. The Trader - WTS and WTT listing board
    5. The Gunboards NFA Trader
    6. Want to Buy Forum
    7. Non Firearm Or Related Trader
    8. Trader - Buyer - Positive Seller Feedback Forum
    9. Trader - Buyer - Negative Seller Feedback Forum
    10. Gunshow Listings
    11. Board Meets - Shoots - Shows - Like Events
  • Gunboards.com Discussion Boards
    1. Gunboards "First Shot" Reviews
    2. The Remembrance Board
    3. The Collector's Forum - Mosin Nagant HQ
    4. The Mosin Nagant Survey Forum
    5. The Military Mauser Forum
    6. The K98 Mauser Forum
    7. NEW! German Militaria Forum NEW!
    8. New ! The Gewehr 41 and 43 Discussion Board
    9. The Sniper Rifle Forum
    10. AK And SKS Collector Discussion Board
    11. Military style Semi- Automatic Rifle Forum
    12. Italian Firearms Forum
    13. French Firearms Board
    14. The Czech Weapons Board
    15. Swiss Weapons Forum
    16. Mannlicher, Steyr, & Blackpowder Cartridge Rifles
    17. Martini Henry Forum
    18. The Machine Gun/ Automatic Weapons Forum
    19. Military Handgun Forum
    20. M1895 NAGANT Pistol Collector Forum
    21. Michael Jon Littman's Modern Handguns
    22. Middle Eastern Firearms And Militaria
    23. Winchester And Lever Action Board
    24. Michael Jon Littman's US Weapons Forum
    25. The Semi Auto Builders Forum
    26. John P. Sheehan’s World War I Militaria And Arms
    27. JPS's Hunting And Fishing Board
    28. The Big Bore Board
    29. Military Photo Album
    30. Armor, APC's, Artillery, Anti Tank, Mortar, Warplane, Warship Forum
    31. War Stories-A Tribute page
    32. The Ammo Bunker
    33. The Military Rifle Competition Forum
    34. Militaria-Swords-Bayonets- Edged Weapons Forum
    35. Commercial and Military Sporting Arms Forum
    36. Workbench Forum
    37. Smoke Pole - Blackpowder Forum
    38. CCW Discussion Forum
    39. Shotgun Forum (military and commercial)
    40. Single Action Revolver Forum
  • CETME Rifles And More
    1. CETME And FR8
    2. The Spanish Pistol Board
    3. The Egyptian Firearms Forum
    4. Sound Off/RKBA Forum
    5. Survival/Preparedness
    6. The Mossberg Small Bore Forum
  • Makarov Dot Com - The Best Mak Info
    1. The Makarov Forum
    2. Slim Tim's Makarov Trader
  • Scandinavian Firearms
    1. Swedish Military Firearms Forum
    2. Swedish Civilian & Sporting Firearms
    3. Krag rifles of Norway, Denmark & U.S.A.
  • Japanese Collector's Boards
    1. Firearms Of The Rising Sun
    2. Japanese Trader Board
  • Lee Enfield - 22 Caliber Forums & English Gun Pub
    1. The Lee-Enfield Forum
    2. British Gun Pub
    3. Michael Jon Littman's .22 Forum
  • Other Boards Of Interest
    1. Tennessee-Georgia Shooters Board
    2. DDR Militaria Forum And Trader
    3. Reloading Handloaders Digest
    4. The Cartridge-Ordnance Collectors Board
    5. Military History Board
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  • BB code is On
  • Smilies are On
  • [IMG] code is On
  • HTML code is Off

Forum Rules

  • Gunboards.com
  • Archive
  • Top
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:01 AM.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.1
Copyright © 2010 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
2010 The Mosin Nagant Company