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  1. #1
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    Default Japanese Used French Mle. 1874 Gras Bayonet?

    Here I go with another weirdo. Bayonet was purchased off fleabay, wearing an LBF-47 frog, Has attached leather tag, with unreadable kanji. First character could be a number "6" ? The two look to have been together for a long time. I know the Japanese must have "appropriated' tons of French equipment when they annexed French Indo China. Comments, opinions, B.S.? M.P.

  2. #2
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    Are there any Japanese markings on the blade, crossguard, or other metal parts? About a year ago, there was a Japanese-marked Gras on one of the auction sites.

    C/

  3. #3
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    The only marking that is suspect, is a small "X" on the front bottom of the guard. Looks hand cut, with two seperate strokes, and is oriented sideways when facing the bayonet head-on. I know very little about French bayonet markings. Maybe I'm just looking at it with that wishful eye we all tend to have every so often... or pretty often, or very often..... M.P.

  4. #4
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    Can you post a photo of the tag, just in case someone wants to take a try at reading it?

    C/

  5. #5
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    Chip, You know how to hurt a guy, if it's the Gras I'm thinking of I won the bid, but the seller renigged. He claimed he was selling if for a friend and the friend "decided not to sell."
    AA did provide me with his telephone # when he failed to answer half-dozen emails.

  6. #6
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    Yep, that was the one. Sorry for dredging up the memories.

    C/

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchwarfare View Post
    Bayonet was purchased off fleabay, wearing an LBF-47 frog, Comments, opinions, B.S.? M.P.
    What's the manufacture date and arsenal? They're engraved into the top of the blade in cursive.

    C/

  8. #8
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    I didn't think any French markings were relevent, or would have posted them. Spine is only marked: Paris Oudry-1880. Will try to post pictures of "X" and leather tag tonite. I've owned this bayonet for a couple of years now. M.P.
    Last edited by Trenchwarfare; 09-15-2008 at 05:38 PM.

  9. #9
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    I'd be wary over this bayonet without any clear Japanese markings or kanji. Easy enough to put a frog that happens to have a tag on a common bayonet & say it was used by the Japanese.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jareth View Post
    I'd be wary over this bayonet without any clear Japanese markings or kanji. Easy enough to put a frog that happens to have a tag on a common bayonet & say it was used by the Japanese.
    Nobody said it was used by the Japanese. I paid $65.00. Bought it for the frog. The bayonet is worth $100.00 or so. The frog, the same, maybe more. The question is moot.

  11. #11
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    You asked for comments, opinions & B.S. so I didn't think the question was moot.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jareth View Post
    You asked for comments, opinions & B.S. so I didn't think the question was moot.
    Touche'

  13. #13
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    When you combine my crappy photography skills, and my antique camera, this is what you get. The first character looks like either the number "6", or the first character in Taisho. A stick man. Can't make out the other two? The "X" is still an X. Sorry, M.P.

  14. #14
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    Default Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1874

    The French did indeed send a number of Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1874 dit "Gras" to Japan in the middle to late 1870's or very early 1880's for them to test and experiment with as the Type 13 shows influence from this weapon particularly the bayonet.
    The "X" on French bayonets and weapons was for Instructional Purpose called "Theorie".
    Your Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1874 was made by a civil supplier Léopold Oudry who had an electrochemical workshop that was located in Paris at 10 Cuissard Street now called Félicien-David. He made these bayonets from 1880 to 1882.
    Patrick
    Vive La Rpublique Franaise, le Lebel et le poilu
    Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
    Fusil d'Infanterie Modle 1886 Modifi 1893 dit "Lebel"

    Vive le Pinard !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1886lebel View Post
    The French did indeed send a number of Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1874 dit "Gras" to Japan in the middle to late 1870's or very early 1880's for them to test and experiment with as the Type 13 shows influence from this weapon particularly the bayonet. Patrick
    Patrick,

    Do you have any further information (written or otherwise) concerning the shipment of Gras rifles to Japan?

    C/

  16. #16
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    All I know is that some were sent to Japan, Greece, Romania, China, Columbia and Chile to entice them to buy these weapons, I just do not have the numbers shipped to the various countries. Only Greece, Columbia and Chile actually adopted them, with Greece purchasing ones made at Steyr in 1877, Chile used these in the "Guerra del Pacífico", a war between Chile and Peru against Bolivia in 1879-1883.
    Patrick
    Vive La Rpublique Franaise, le Lebel et le poilu
    Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
    Fusil d'Infanterie Modle 1886 Modifi 1893 dit "Lebel"

    Vive le Pinard !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0

  17. #17
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    I don't think that this bayonet was issued in Japan. Otherwise it would have Japanese Markings somewhere. I figure is was "appropriated" in South East Asia, and issued to some local police, or paramilitary unit? M.P.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchwarfare View Post
    I figure is was "appropriated" in South East Asia, and issued to some local police, or paramilitary unit? M.P.
    And you figure that simply by virtue of the bayonet being married to a Japanese frog? Are there any other attributes besides the frog that would lead you to believe it was used by the Japanese? Thanks, Jon

  19. #19
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    Sounds good to me, I'll just jam the one I have in a japanese frog and sell it. You can barely give those bayonets away around here.
    I'm broke, and I blame Imperial Japan.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyboy View Post
    And you figure that simply by virtue of the bayonet being married to a Japanese frog? Are there any other attributes besides the frog that would lead you to believe it was used by the Japanese? Thanks, Jon
    No John, I don't think, or believe anything. The possibilities are endless. Just curious. That's why I asked you guys. I didn't put the two together. I'm not going to try to sell it. The seller I bought it from didn't say anything about being Japanese. I doubt that they put the two together. It was just listed as an old bayonet, by someone selling off an estate. Mostly glassware and pottery. I'm not trying to make a silk purse, out of a sow's ear. The only two things that I THINK I know for sure, is that the bayonet is French, and the frog is Japanese. Who knows, I may be wrong about that. M.P.

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