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  1. #1
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    Default Steel Penetration Test

    Here are some 1/2" mild steel plates that I used for a penetration test a couple of years ago. They were placed one about a foot behind the other. Range was about 75 yards.

    F= front plate, R= rear plate

    1. 8mm Turk ball. Almost penetrated the front plate.
    2. 8mm Italian AP. Easily blew through both plates.
    3. 7.62X54R Chinese API. Penetrated the front plate, core broke in the rear plate.
    4. 7.62X54R Russian API. Penetrated the front plate, core broke in the rear plate.
    Last edited by ShKAS; 09-19-2008 at 08:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Wow, look at that Italian go!

    Is it BPD?

  3. #3
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    Default

    Interesting...how far apart were the steel plates?


    Just reread your post...apparently I'm not awake yet...one foot apart...duh!
    Last edited by gun_lover; 09-20-2008 at 06:01 AM. Reason: sleep walking...sleep typing :-)
    "The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament..."

    I'm starting, to suspect that I, don't know how to use commas.

  4. #4
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    Default

    That 8mm core has twice the Mass of the little API core in the Commie ammo....works REAL GOOD! I always found .303 AP to be a good penetrator too even though it lacks a bit on velocity. Must be some very good British Steel in those cores.

  5. #5
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    Default

    What about Mosin mild steel core ammo? Have been curious about this.
    "Whale; The Other White Meat."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedley2 View Post
    What about Mosin mild steel core ammo? Have been curious about this.
    I shot some against another 1/2" plate at the same range. It didn't penetrate quite as deep as the 8mm.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShKAS View Post
    I shot some against another 1/2" plate at the same range. It didn't penetrate quite as deep as the 8mm.
    Not as far as the 8mm BALL, right? No way the steel core 54R did near as good as the 8mm AP!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    Not as far as the 8mm BALL, right? No way the steel core 54R did near as good as the 8mm AP!
    Right! The 7.62X54 ball went maybe halfway through the plate, where the 8mm ball almost penetrated, leaving a huge hole.

  9. #9
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    Default

    cool info,i remember shooting through a peace of kevlar with 8mm and 303.both went through it.i think we put it at around 75 yards or so.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Has anybody ever shot real Russian ShKAS 7,62x54R ammo on steel plates? I just saw a Youtube clip about a shooting with German wartime 7,92mm Mauser B-Patrone and that made me curious about the Soviet counterpart.

    Carcano

  11. #11

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    I seem to remember Widener's having "tungsten cored" 7.62 (.311) bullets for sale about 2004.......WISH I HAD GOTTEN SOME.

    GREG

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by high speed cruise View Post
    I seem to remember Widener's having "tungsten cored" 7.62 (.311) bullets for sale about 2004.......WISH I HAD GOTTEN SOME.

    GREG

    No you don't....because those cores were not "tungsten" for sure!

    Maybe tool steel, but I doubt that....most likely mild steel (coat hanger wire) and nothing special at all.

    By the way...they have .311 Steel core bullets on sale RIGHT NOW!
    http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8621

    Here is your chance!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcano View Post
    Has anybody ever shot real Russian ShKAS 7,62x54R ammo on steel plates? I just saw a Youtube clip about a shooting with German wartime 7,92mm Mauser B-Patrone and that made me curious about the Soviet counterpart.

    Carcano
    Yes, I've shot 1944 ShKAS API's (upper left in the pic of bullets) and the penetration is about the same as any 7.62X54 API.

    B-Patrone doesn't penetrate much better than 8mm ball.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1043.JPG  
    Last edited by ShKAS; 09-27-2008 at 08:17 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShKAS View Post
    Yes, I've shot 1944 ShKAS API's (upper left in the pic of bullets) and the penetration is about the same as any 7.62X54 API.

    B-Patrone doesn't penetrate much better than 8mm ball.
    ShKAS API should penetrate just like any standard 54R API. If you run it over a chrony the velocity is the same. Soviet ammunition ammo manuals describe the "special" part of ShKAS ammo as the case thickness and the primer constriction. No mention of "HOT MG ammo" ( I can't belive I was forced to type that again! ) in the manual.

  15. #15
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    Thanks to both the gentlemen for the helpful answer. I do of course not possess any ShKAS ammunition (like all armour piercing and incendiary rounds, it is considered munitiion of war under our military arms law, and thus strictly forbidden to civilians), but I was impressed by the YouTube video clip of the shooting of 7,92mm Mauser B-Patronen by (I believe) "solman". And thanks for asserting the urban legend status of that unburiable "hot MG ammo" rumour, too. :-)

    Hm, come to think of it, I once witnessed on the range the (accidental) employ of old 7,92mm Mauser phosphorus ammunition with the maroon lacquered primer ring (only made for a short time, in the mid-1930s, I believe), from a box of mixed old rounds. After about 60-70 metres, the bullet emitted a visible white smoke cloud in the air, much like black powder.

    Carcano

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    ShKAS API should penetrate just like any standard 54R API. If you run it over a chrony the velocity is the same. Soviet ammunition ammo manuals describe the "special" part of ShKAS ammo as the case thickness and the primer constriction. No mention of "HOT MG ammo" ( I can't belive I was forced to type that again! ) in the manual.
    Exactly. I've chrono'ed ShKAS ammo and it indeed is no faster than run-of-the-mill 7.62X54 ammo.
    I've also sectioned cases. There are slight differences in the shape of the case at its base.

  17. #17
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    There are slight differences in the shape of the case at its base.
    My understanding was that ShKAS cases were strengthened around the base as there were early indicators of the rims being torn off on extraction? I know that the ShKAS has a VERY high rate of fire and that this has an effect on the cases.

    Am I correct in this or is there something else?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by George_F View Post
    My understanding was that ShKAS cases were strengthened around the base as there were early indicators of the rims being torn off on extraction? I know that the ShKAS has a VERY high rate of fire and that this has an effect on the cases.

    Am I correct in this or is there something else?
    This is what i have heard as well. The caution is to avoid putting it in mosins as it may jam due to the slightly different rims. It is not over-pressure.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShKAS View Post
    Exactly. I've chrono'ed ShKAS ammo and it indeed is no faster than run-of-the-mill 7.62X54 ammo.
    I've also sectioned cases. There are slight differences in the shape of the case at its base.
    If you do not have any photographs, could you maybe be as kind as to describe these differences?

    Thanks, Carcano

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcano View Post
    If you do not have any photographs, could you maybe be as kind as to describe these differences?

    Thanks, Carcano
    This isn't a great pic or cut, but the ShKAS case is on the right.

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