45-70 loading
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Thread: 45-70 loading

  1. #1
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    Default 45-70 loading

    I've been shooting and reloading 45-70 for about a decade now. I've been using Lee's mold that drops a 450gr .457 bullet and it's been great. Was looking to pick up a 405gr mold from them, they offer two now. One a 405/.457 basically the same I'm using now just a little lighter. Then they offer a 405gr .459 hollow base.

    Has anyone here used the .459 hollow base? And/or anyone have that mold and would be willing to sell me 20 bullets cast from it that i could test in one of my Trapdoor Springfields.
    As of 9/17/2011 new member of the 98k Sniper Club, bcd 45 lsr
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  2. #2
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    The hollow base is good for very oversize bores.It also has a bit more streamlined shape than the plain base 400gn.I have found the PB 400 very accurate ,it has a very long bore contact surface.The advantage ,as I see it is a 2 cavity mold vs a single.Regards John.

  3. #3
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    Buffalo Arms sells the HB 405g bullets if you want to try some before buying a mold. This bullet works great for both my Trapdoor carbine and my Danish Rolling Block rifle.

    Skirmisher

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  5. #4
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    Unfortunately they won't ship to Massachusetts

    Quote Originally Posted by Skirmisher View Post
    Buffalo Arms sells the HB 405g bullets if you want to try some before buying a mold. This bullet works great for both my Trapdoor carbine and my Danish Rolling Block rifle.

    Skirmisher
    As of 9/17/2011 new member of the 98k Sniper Club, bcd 45 lsr
    11/2/12 SSZZA4 bnz 43 #8301 added to the family
    1/2/13 Joined the Classic Arms 91/30 PU family


    Bitterly clinging to my guns and religion since 11/6/2012

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  6. #5
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    The bullet is really outstanding. Working on the same principal as the Minie' Ball the skirt will expand and obdurate in the bore. I did not see that it cleans the bore as a true Minie' ball will though. Use a soft alloy and Black Powder, Black Powder substitute or a quick burning smokeless powder safe for your Trap Door. A slow burning powder may not expand the skirt.
    The bullet is accurate and easy to cast.
    Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
    NRA Endowment Member
    " I'll buy the Constitution and The Bill-Of-Rights, you can keep the CHANGE."


  7. #6
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    It's interesting that you're asking about the HB bullets. I've reloaded .45-70 with a friend long ago & he used the flat base 405 gr. bullet. We were using Pyrodex & it performed well. He always said that if they made an HB bullet he'd use it.

    I came home tonite with my own 1873 Trapdoor replica of unknown mfg & ordered dies, mold & brass from Brownells. I had read that the HB was only available in a single cavity die, & when I ordered my 405 gr. double cavity mold, I didn't give the part # any notice.

    I just looked at it & I have a double cavity HB mold in the mail & on the way to me.

    I cast soft lead for my roundball & mini rifles, but is soft lead or an alloy best for Trapdoor loads. I'll be starting out with my old BP / Pyrodex loads, but someday may want to try some smokeless.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
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  8. #7
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    I know my question will not be in line with this thread but you folks shooting BP .45 can help me and I can't figure out how to start my own question on the forum. I have two 1873 SAA Colt replica's- one by Ruger with a modern safety in the works and a Pietta -they both are made to take modern .45LC rounds, but I have mostly muzzleloading stuff to shoot with-I bought the single stage reloading stuff and a RCBS .45 mold. I'm having a little trouble getting the home cast slugs into the casings but I go slow and got a few rd's loaded with KIK BP. KIK is sold by Black Dawg and it has a kick. Question is I bought the 2f KIK for my Martini Henry and Snider Enfield (I bought the dies for making 24ga shotshells into casings for those guns before a supplier came out with them) I used the 2f on the .45LC rd's and made the load where the powder was compressed but not jammed hard like a ramrod can do. I have fired a few rds. here and where I'm at it is legal but I have to shoot sparingly thou7gh because it scares the neighbors horse and my dog. of course the .58 cal and any BP rifle sounds like a cannon but so does a .45LC SAA. They both seem to be accurate- at the range with SAAMI rd's both pistols will group within 4" at 75'. But what is the diff between 2f and 3f in a pistol charge? Why are the pistol charges a smaller grain? These primers I use are hot enough to fire the 3f and I have very little smoke. KIK is a real good powder for power. I have a chart a friend sent me that shows 29 grs of KIK to out perform most available reloading powders in a 45LC. It's just that when I look everyone is out of any smokeless powder for the .45LC. that's why I went to KIK and bought the Pietta so as not to mess up the complicated guts of the RUGER. Information and advice gladly taken, FB

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZshooter View Post
    It's interesting that you're asking about the HB bullets. I've reloaded .45-70 with a friend long ago & he used the flat base 405 gr. bullet. We were using Pyrodex & it performed well. He always said that if they made an HB bullet he'd use it.

    I came home tonite with my own 1873 Trapdoor replica of unknown mfg & ordered dies, mold & brass from Brownells. I had read that the HB was only available in a single cavity die, & when I ordered my 405 gr. double cavity mold, I didn't give the part # any notice.

    I just looked at it & I have a double cavity HB mold in the mail & on the way to me.

    I cast soft lead for my roundball & mini rifles, but is soft lead or an alloy best for Trapdoor loads. I'll be starting out with my old BP / Pyrodex loads, but someday may want to try some smokeless.

    CORRECTION: I'll have a Flat Base double cavity mold delivering on Monday. I was suspicious of the Double Cavity Hollow-Base description & asked Lee about it - their replay was: "no such thing." I told Brownell's that they let me down with their faulty catalog description, but they didn't offer to do an exchange or remediate their faux pas. That's OK, I've used the flat base before & it works fine.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernandina Beach View Post
    I know my question will not be in line with this thread but you folks shooting BP .45 can help me and I can't figure out how to start my own question on the forum. I have two 1873 SAA Colt replica's- one by Ruger with a modern safety in the works and a Pietta -they both are made to take modern .45LC rounds, but I have mostly muzzleloading stuff to shoot with-I bought the single stage reloading stuff and a RCBS .45 mold. I'm having a little trouble getting the home cast slugs into the casings but I go slow and got a few rd's loaded with KIK BP. KIK is sold by Black Dawg and it has a kick. Question is I bought the 2f KIK for my Martini Henry and Snider Enfield (I bought the dies for making 24ga shotshells into casings for those guns before a supplier came out with them) I used the 2f on the .45LC rd's and made the load where the powder was compressed but not jammed hard like a ramrod can do. I have fired a few rds. here and where I'm at it is legal but I have to shoot sparingly thou7gh because it scares the neighbors horse and my dog. of course the .58 cal and any BP rifle sounds like a cannon but so does a .45LC SAA. They both seem to be accurate- at the range with SAAMI rd's both pistols will group within 4" at 75'. But what is the diff between 2f and 3f in a pistol charge? Why are the pistol charges a smaller grain? These primers I use are hot enough to fire the 3f and I have very little smoke. KIK is a real good powder for power. I have a chart a friend sent me that shows 29 grs of KIK to out perform most available reloading powders in a 45LC. It's just that when I look everyone is out of any smokeless powder for the .45LC. that's why I went to KIK and bought the Pietta so as not to mess up the complicated guts of the RUGER. Information and advice gladly taken, FB
    You need to bell or flare your case mouths a little [more]. It will make seating smoother & when you crimp, it will remove the flare.

    Ask 12 people about 2F vs 3F for pistol cartridges & you'll get a dozen answers. Typically 3F will burn cleaner in shorter barrels. 3F packs tighter with less space between granules.

    My advice is to use 3F if you have it, otherwise, don't worry about using 2F- it will work fine, maybe a little more cylinder gap and muzzle flash.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  11. #10
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    I need to find some other way to flare the case than the smooth molded tip of the loading die and it puzzles me that if I flare with what certainly looks like a part that is made to flare the case mouths- removing the case from the die the case sticks- and pulling the case out re-closes the case. I've been told that that is the part that flares but the die re-closes. The RCBS mold is a good mold but the slugs are solid base with hard sharp corners. What I really don't like is the feeling that by filing the edge off the bullet is not balanced well. But the funny thing is when I was setting my die to the size of a range rd. full copper jacket I started with 25 gr's of 3f and both the range rd and the lead slug flattenned out and fell off a small smooth oak piece of a limb from the woodpile and the pistol kicked up hard with the smaller loads that I settled at of 30-33 gr's. I guess that using some filler like I have used on the Martini Henry rds doesn't work well with BP pistol cartridges. It didn't hurt the pistol but KIK has a kick. The die is supposed to be 255 or I think but the slugs came out 275 gr's with the lead I got. And if they aren't wadcutters they are sure slim a few hundredths only less. With the 4.5" barel I believe they would only be good close up as far as hitting what you aim at but haven't had the opportunity to find out. But brand new and at the range the little Pietta .45-at the farthest range of about 75 ft., put three range rds withing 2" right at the heart after using the 1st two rds to familiarize with the sight. I really couldn't see the holes in the target I had the range guy tell me where the 1st two landed, figured where the heart was and let fly- Trigger control.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernandina Beach View Post
    I need to find some other way to flare the case than the smooth molded tip of the loading die and it puzzles me that if I flare with what certainly looks like a part that is made to flare the case mouths- removing the case from the die the case sticks- and pulling the case out re-closes the case. I've been told that that is the part that flares but the die re-closes. The RCBS mold is a good mold but the slugs are solid base with hard sharp corners. What I really don't like is the feeling that by filing the edge off the bullet is not balanced well. But the funny thing is when I was setting my die to the size of a range rd. full copper jacket I started with 25 gr's of 3f and both the range rd and the lead slug flattenned out and fell off a small smooth oak piece of a limb from the woodpile and the pistol kicked up hard with the smaller loads that I settled at of 30-33 gr's. I guess that using some filler like I have used on the Martini Henry rds doesn't work well with BP pistol cartridges. It didn't hurt the pistol but KIK has a kick. The die is supposed to be 255 or I think but the slugs came out 275 gr's with the lead I got. And if they aren't wadcutters they are sure slim a few hundredths only less. With the 4.5" barel I believe they would only be good close up as far as hitting what you aim at but haven't had the opportunity to find out. But brand new and at the range the little Pietta .45-at the farthest range of about 75 ft., put three range rds withing 2" right at the heart after using the 1st two rds to familiarize with the sight. I really couldn't see the holes in the target I had the range guy tell me where the 1st two landed, figured where the heart was and let fly- Trigger control.
    Who made your die set? You might want to successively back out the flaring die about 1/4 turn or less and try it again. Repeat until there's just enough flare to start the bullet & not get stuck in the die.

    Also, double check the instructions for setting up the flare, since you should be able to screw it down more so the brass doesn't go as far into the die, then back out the die in your press. I've had difficulty with flaring cases before, but sometimes you just need to twiddle with it some.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  13. #12
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    What a splendid idea. Read the instructions for a 3 die lee .45LC die set. I'll have to look them up as I can't find or never got them-I was just trying to use my brain and reload .45LC pistol casings like the Martini-Henry or Snider Enfield cases and my home cast rifle slugs just slide in perfect, didn't have this problem. However backing out the flare tool - thanks, and before I see the directions I have a feeling I need to set the setting die as close to the primer end as I can and the die will make sure the slug is centered a lot better. I just used 30 cases and slugs to begin with to find a load and be able to check the accuracy-however not being able to get into a range I just put some paper over a tree stump, and I am fairly sure the slugs aren't being centered correctly as the 4+1/2" barrel seems to wobble some but the 7+1/2" feels truer. Both revolvers are spot on at 75' with range rd's.

  14. #13
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    a fantastic bullet. i shoot minute of angle with them in my SHARPS & TRAP DOOR, I use 27 grs. of 4198 with a cotton ball or tissue or drier lint on the powder to keep the powder against the primer. a real tack driver.

  15. #14
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    I've tried dryer lint. Problem with my lint is that it's all infused with Siamese hair. My cats have made it a career to shed as much as possible. Loads using my dryer lint smell like I'm launching a smouldering housecat downrange...
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  16. #15
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    AZshooter, wow!! i have never quite heard it put quite so elegantly true be fore, you have relay been there, HA, HA,HA. rite on! dog hair is not a cut above either. also i should have mentioned if you use drier lint make it is from cotton products and not synthetics. they have poly in them and all it does is melt, and stink!.

  17. #16
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    {cotton ball or tissue or drier lint on the powder to keep the powder against the primer. a real tack driver.}

    Have not tried dryer lint, but sounds like a good idea...

  18. #17
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    I use Trail Boss smokeless powder in my .45 LC guns (pistols and rifles) for cowboy action shoots. I don't load the rounds hot, 225 grain lead bullets to about 700 fps. That is a mild load, recoils fairly light and seems to be very accurate. The Trail Boss burns very clean and results in an easy clean up after the shoot.
    I have a pair of Cimarron's Uberti Mod. P's with 4 3/4" barrels that I use in most shoots . They are light, made of good steel and draw easily . I also have a pair of Uberti Mod. 1875 Remington's. One has the 7 1/2" barrel and the other has the 5 1/2" barrel. They are both several ounces heaver than Mod. P's but are very accurate, more so than the Cimarron's. At least in my old arthritic hands. They are several seconds slower to get into action than the Cimarron's however.
    The rifle I use is a Marlin Mod. 1894 in .45 LC . I use the same ammo in it as in the revolvers. A mighty accurate lever gun. My shot gun for cowboy action is a Winchester pump Mod. 1897 (original) made in 1905 according to the serial number and I use only low base shells in it. A VERY smooth old action . I don't compete with anyone in cowboy action except myself on time and hits recorded. I'm just in it for the fun and not to beat anyone else's time or hits.

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