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Thread: Need Spanish 7.62x51 Ammo ID

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    18

    Default Need Spanish 7.62x51 Ammo ID

    Greetings:

    I have some 1962 and 1963 Spanish 7.62x51 made in Palencia...

    Headstamp is: P 7.6 63 and P 7.6 62 with green primer sealant.

    Brown cardboard boxes have SB logo and are marked:

    20 Cartuchos

    CETME. CSP.-003

    Cal. 7.62mm

    Is this the reduced load ammo that is safe to shoot in a Fr-7?

    Thanks for any info... my google searching could not find any ID info.

  2. #2

    Default

    certainly sounds like it, although most of the CETME ammo I have seen comes in brown box with a orange and yellow sticker on it.
    Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
    ( When all else fails, play dead)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback... it was sold to me using a picture of the boxes you describe with the orange and yellow labels... unfortunately this other is what arrived... I am trying to determine if I am a victim of bait and switch.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    "Reduced load ammo?"

    I've been shooting 7.62mm NATO out of my FR7. Some .308 Winchester ammo is loaded to higher than NATO specs, so I don't shoot it.

    -- Chuck

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Heart of Dixie
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    18

    Default Yes, there are three 7.62x51 rounds

    7.62 CETME

    7.62 NATO

    .308 Winchester

    "The CETME model A and B were designed to shoot the so called 7.62mm CETME round, a lower powered version of the 7.62 NATO. This is not to say that the CETME round was developed from the NATO round, but, rather, it seems the CETME round was developed independently from German WW2 data/experimentation/modifications of assault rifle development. The model C CETME rifle was designed (modified) to shoot 7.62 NATO ammo." (from Surplus Rifles.com)

    I prefer to shoot the small ring Fr-7 action with the reduced load and save the full powered NATO rounds for my Fr-8.

    DOC AV posted the following on 9/16/2008 on this subject...

    "WARNING: Spanish "7,62" is NOT Nato and Less ".308"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Again this Misinformation (propagated by the original Importers back in the 1980s) about these M1916 and other Converted Spanish Mausers.

    The M95 and M1916 Spanish Mausers converted to "7,62x51" chamber, were for the Lower Power, Spanish developed 7,62 CETME cartridge...same cartridge dimensions, different bullet and most importantly, pressure factor.

    The Rifles were converted for both Police("Guardia Civil") and Army training use. Some were left in their (original) configuration, but some (the "FR-7") were converted to a CETME Rifle look-alike, as far as sights, etc, was concerned ( FR-7 === Fusil Reformado, 7mm original, or ex-Mauser Small ring --M95 and M16 models).

    When they were sold off, the "7,62" mark of Spanish Ordnance was MISINTERPRETED by the US Importers to be ".308", and the added ".308" marking applied.

    So everyone MISTAKENLY believes they are suitable for both Military 7,62 Nato and Commercial .308 Win. Ammo.

    Whilst the rifles concerned will stand up to occasional use with such ammo, the nature of the Bolt design and the sometimes assumed "softness" of the Receiver steel, leads to Locking Lug setback and excessive headspace. Some suffer already from this malady from "New" due to Inadvertent use with full Power 7,62 Nato ammo in Spain, after they made the switch from CETME ammo to Nato, in the 1970s

    My advice if you have any Spanish "7,62" marked Spanish Mauser Rifle of the M93/95/1916 design (Small Ring receiver, two lug bolt) that it be Handloaded loaded with 40,000PSI level loads, in cartridge cases sized with Military spec sizing dimensions (NOT ".308" commercial dimensions) and ex-Military cases used (thicker walls). Current production Lake City cases are fine. ( The original 7mm receiver was set for 45,000 PSI max. Loads)

    If your "Spanish Mauser" is a M43 derivation ( "Model 98 action, large Ring") then it is fine for "7,62 Nato/.308 W" ammo, although I still would keep to Milspec ammo and leave the higher pressure Commercial ammo alone.

    Kornhauser's Booklet on Gunsmithing the (Spanish) Mausers makes good notes on the internal and metallic problems of Spanish Mausers...since a lot of the 7mm versions were actually built during the Spanish Civil War, by sometimes quite basic factories, their overall quality control did suffer...those made before WW I were quite well made, and followed German quality practices ( as propounded by the Licensor, L. Loewe/DWM).

    Best regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics Technical Services
    Brisbane Australia "

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Where in order to get to the South, you have to go north
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    Default

    If you have the chance, segment one of the bullets so you can see the plastic core with lead plug in those 7.6 CETME rounds. It is a very interesting concept.

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